Jim, the stuff I pointed out that I personally carry for "Backups", eye glasses, batteries, et. are carried in case I break or wear out what I expect to use. They are only in my pack for that case.

The things I pointed out that I carry when hiking with newbies are in my pack because experience has taught me that these items will be lacking in their packs. I don't carry them for me, they are "extra" and I never, ever, expect to use them myself.

I started doing this as a habit after offering my warm, dry clothes, my only Advil, or half of my last dinner, to others who did not have any, or enough, of whatever they needed. I got tired of that. A half dozen more Advil than I would want or need doesn't weigh much, nor does a garbage bag/rain poncho, or an extra freeze dried meal or two, etc.

In the past thirty-five years I have had to cut trips short because of other people's, allergies, diarrhea, fillings that fell out of a tooth, not having enough food, being wet and cold, even a broken shoelace cut a trip short once. I have never had a problem with any of those personally, but learned from them and I have pulled cures, treatments, and solutions, out of my pack for friends for almost all of those and other mishaps since.

When I'm hiking with newbies my pack is always tiny bit heavier than when I'm packing with my more experienced friends or alone. I don't really mind that. It helps us all stay more focused on having a good time, but I am indeed "Backing up" their gear when I carry that extra stuff. That's my intention and that's why I carry it. I use a separate stuff sack just for this SOPF (stuff other people forget wink

Listing SOPF may not have been the OP's intent, but I do consider it "Backup", even if it's not for my use, and I can't imagine that I'm alone in packing it. Not here.

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"You want to go where?"