Quote:
I agree that Jamborees are fun, but they aren't real scouting. Clearly scouting isn't real scouting.


I think we have to decide whether this thread is about the way scouting should be, or the way scouting is. I think it should be about the way scouting should be, because that is what scouting should be for, to teach kids what scouting could be, and should be, not what it is. Adult troop leaders and some of the larger scouts could still carry some special emergency stuff, such as communications and extra first aid stuff and perhaps some troop level camp and kitchen stuff, but in principle there is no reason a scout and his buddy couldn't be equipped from the get go to learn how to hike and to be reasonably self-suffient. Shared items. Nothing really needs to be shared. Two scouts could share a hoochie by zipping two tarps together, like I did in basic training, but they would also be essentially self-sufficient. I seriously doubt that that is the way Scouting works in North America today, but we can start changing that right here by changing this thread.

Lets just forget about Philmont and Boy Scouts of America and start over.
Let's talk about equipping scouts the way they could be and should be.


Scouting for under $200 and under 15 pounds per scout should be just as easy as it is cheap.
We should all just agree that most of the obstacles are artificial because of post-modern consumerism.
Scouts and Guides should be a means to correct that problem in our society, not make things more difficult. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The way life should be, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OoPyYGKdI


I guess I should do two things, either do a better job of explaining in the first post, or do a better job watching the discussion to help it go in the right direction. My bad. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Anyways, JAK here expresses my sentiments better than I could, so I am quoting him.

The purpose of this "challenge" isn't to actually take a troop to Philmont. Been there, done that. Philmont is used because we all say that we pick equipment for the climate. Alot of us know the Philmont climate. Well, I assumed so. Maybe I am wrong. But, it seemed like a good area because we are targeting scouts AND adult newbies. I thought about just saying 3 season alpine, but I thought that was too vague. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Would ANY 3 season location work? phat, how cold are your summers? We could make an "ultimate prepared for the worst" list, but that would be unnecessary. And, then again, it might not. Let me think out loud as the the intent I am thinking. I have been to other "non backpacking" sites for other outdoor pursuits. At one site, the price of admission (or gear you have to buy) is very steep, and this discourages newbies from participating. So, they have a "beginners setup" for a very good price (maybe half of the average minimum). The idea is to make entry much cheaper with the intent to buy better later when you decide you like it. On the other thread phat started (and which was subsequently hijacked) phat showed a $250 beginner kit. I thought "Wow, what about $200". For a parent with a new 12 year old, $200 is pretty steep. Especially if they don't know how long he will hang with it. It might not be steep for a newbie adult, but we could say "hey try this setup, if you like it, there is a better way, if not, you are only out $200". The problem with making a list like this, is location specific gear. Could we just hit the extremes? It might rain like in the PNW, or be dry like here in Utah. Daytime highs in the 100's and nighttime lows in the 20's. Maybe even throw in 100% humidity like in Houston.

Back to Philmont. I know that they have rules. And, they give you equipment if you want it. But most troops practice before they go, and so they have to bring their own stuff on the weekend, two night, overnights. This is why I didn't say "no tarps or hammocks". What are you going to use to practice before Philmont? It is also hard to figure personal gear when you don't know crew gear. So think of this as a solo trip with a group, BYOE (Bring Your Own Everything) but safety in numbers. There are things I like about scouting, and things I don't. I think we should follow JAK in "Let's talk about equipping scouts the way they could be and should be." So, let's just define a scout as a 12-18 year old boy who is going to grow and wants to go backpacking with his friends and a knowledgeable, responsible, adult.

To sum it up, I think we have had a great discussion, and I would hate to end it on a technicality. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.