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#99839 - 07/16/08 09:39 PM How does Tarp crowd handle ants?
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
Ants! Ants! Ants! Ants!
Everywhere I look, everywhere I camp, night & day, all summer long.
How do you tarp campers deal with the ants?
Where does one actually pitch a tarp in the piney woods where there are no ants trailing across every pitchable spot?
Seldom do I see bare dirt in the low desert that is not possessed by an ant nest or have one in close proximity.

How do you do it?

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#99840 - 07/17/08 05:17 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Hammock. We've got fire ants here and yup, if you aren't watching where you're pitching, you'll have painful company.
If I have to pitch on the ground, finding an ant free place is a chore. My mom use to spray "off" around our tent perimeters when we were kids, and sometimes dribbled camp gas or sufler powder around them too. It worked...ants wouldn't cross it. That was back in the 60's.....today it would be unthinkable to do that. So, give hammocks a try, especially since you're in the pines. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#99841 - 07/17/08 05:59 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Dryer]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
When using a hammock, treat your tree huggers with permethrin to keep the ants from walking your support lines into the hammock. Things can get ugly.

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#99842 - 07/17/08 06:42 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Ditto on the hammock answers.
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#99843 - 07/17/08 08:22 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
Heber Offline
member

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 245
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
I have become a hammocker this year and I agree that is the best way to be safe from critters.

However I have backpacked in Arizona and in some places you can't find trees to hang a hammock from. So if I were tarping on the ground I would use my bug bivy

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/bug_bivy.html

under my tarp. I like this better than other bug netting solutions that just cover the top of your bag. Those work great against mosquitoes but not against crawling insects like ants. This one keeps me completely encased and safe from all little critters while still allowing good circulation.

Now if you are in the pines then by all means get a hammock. But otherwise consider the bug bivy.

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#99844 - 07/17/08 08:44 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Heber]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Bug Bivey is a good answer! Forgot about those.
When I'm hiking the desert, I typically tarp it and found that using a cheap mylar space blanket as the ground cover keeps crawlies away and my bug net seals around my pad and the ground cover.
Fire ants seem to be able to get through plate steel if they want....so nothing is 100% with those.


My wife and I kayak camped last weekend and used our Hennessey hammocks....Her's was suspended from one horizontal branch! By far the most comfortable sleep in the boonies, in my opinion....and my wife's.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#99845 - 07/17/08 11:47 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
Ender Offline
member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 779
Loc: ME
Ditto on the hammock. For staying away from bugs it's the best. When it's cold weather, I don't mind staying on the ground under just a tarp, but hot weather the ants (and ticks, and other creepy crawlies) have free access. I got bit a couple times by ants. Not terrible, but not pleasant either.

One thing though... if you keep your backpack on the ground during the night, make sure you brush it off before putting it on! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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#99846 - 07/17/08 05:55 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I don't know how Arizona is with fire ants, but when I was in Texas, my priority list looked like this, in order.

1. Stay away from fire ants
2. water
3. food
4. shelter

I didn't know about tarps then, so all I used was tents or hammock. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#99847 - 07/17/08 09:44 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Heber]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
I bought that bug bivy too and I believe it will keep away the bugs from me. For some reason though, I don't come across ants, just mosquitos. Maybe it is too cool for ants where I hike. Not sure.

Howie

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#99848 - 07/19/08 12:28 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Howie]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
There are definitely places where the tarp thing might not work so good on account of insects. Virginia saltmarshes in summer is an example I can attest to.

Fire ant country? Mangrove swamps? Fire ants sound like fun.

Actually, since switching to mostly tarp use a few years ago, I've wimped out when doing the alpine meadow mosquito swamp thing, and switched back in those instances to either a bivvy tent or one of those jobs with the netting sewn on the front.

Was perhaps unnecessary, given that my "tarps" have doors. A question I haven't resolved through experience or inquiry.

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#99849 - 07/19/08 09:53 PM Re: it seems the short answer is... [Re: coyotemaster]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
the tarp campers don't really handle ants.

They avoid them or use some other shelter system.

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#99850 - 07/21/08 01:26 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
BallzOut Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6
Loc: San Francisco
You probably know this, but make sure you're sleeping area is far removed from where you eat/cook/brush teeth. And, of course, make sure to keep all sweet smelling things (deodorant, soap, etc.) away from your sleeping area too. If you notice an area with a lot of ants, try not to make camp in between them and possible food/water sources.

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#99851 - 07/22/08 11:00 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
Amtrak Offline
member

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 140
In 14 years and 350+ nights of tarp use in ID desert, alpine west, S. Cal desert, Sierra's, Winds, Colorado CDT, Pyreenes, French Alps, AT thru-hike, PCT thru-hike, etc. I've had 2 or 3 individual ants crawl over me. None considered biting me.
Just don't camp on top of a hill and you will be OK.

Amtrak

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#99852 - 07/28/08 09:31 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
Ecrow Offline
member

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 85
Loc: N. New Mexico
In the high forests in Colorado, it usually get pretty cool at night and many bugs just are not a problem like in lower, hotter places.
_________________________
Ecrow
Live to tell.

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#99853 - 07/29/08 07:33 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
mockturtle Offline
member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA
That's one reason I prefer a tent. Call me a wuss, but I have enough difficulty getting to sleep on the trail without worrying about creeping and crawling things getting into my bag.

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#99854 - 09/17/08 11:29 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Amtrak]
bulrush Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
In 14 years and 350+ nights of tarp use in ID desert, alpine west, S. Cal desert, Sierra's, Winds, Colorado CDT, Pyreenes, French Alps, AT thru-hike, PCT thru-hike, etc. I've had 2 or 3 individual ants crawl over me. None considered biting me.
Just don't camp on top of a hill and you will be OK.

Amtrak

Amtrak, individual body chemistry accounts for a large part of attracting insects. Look at me, for example. If there are no mosquitos in a state park, by the time I get there, they are all buzzing around me. I simply have an attractive chemistry, if there are mosquitos, they will find me. Hence I would never consider camping outside of an enclosed tent.

In Michigan, where I live, we don't have the same species of fire ants the south does, but we do have red and black ants that sting, since we had a nest of them in our backyard when growing up. So, technically, we do not have "southern fire ants" in Michigan, but we do have ants that sting and bite, but they are not common.

I have never seen those stinging ants in Michigan since.

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#99855 - 09/17/08 04:01 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
rootball Offline
member

Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 112
Where did you all come up with hammock? I thought he asked about tarps. Well I must have misread something -
But if you had asked how tarpers deal with ant I would follow up the bug bivy suggestion. Its the only way to go - look at the OR bug Bivy, it is solid and will last a while, not too costly, and it works.
_________________________
For brick and mortar breed filth and crime
And men are withered before their prime

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#99856 - 09/18/08 07:36 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: rootball]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
For ants when using a tarp use a bugnetor bivey. For ants when using a hammock use a bugnet plus I waste a little repelant on the hanging ropes and ridgeline at the trees.
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#99857 - 09/18/08 04:49 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: chaz]
Spock Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 679
Loc: Central Texas
I usually hammock, but often sleep on the ground on river trips when the only legal place to camp is on sand bars below the gradient boundary. Fire ants love gravel bars and they are aggressive. These are not your picnic ants, but pack animals that swarm victims and begin to bite simultaneously. Their name tells you everything you need to know about their bite: fire.

Here is the best way I have found to deal with ants in general, including fire ants: Buy them off. I leave sacrifices or tribute at the edges of my camping area - like at the four corners more or less. The ants quickly gravitate to the goodies and stay busy hauling the loot back to the nest. And they stay out of my campsite.

Their favorite appetizer is saltine crackers - nothing healthy seems to interest them. Each sacrifice (each corner) gets one saltine, crumbled into a pile. The main course is oil such as the oil from sardines or just plain cooking oil - whatever is handy. Just pour a tablespoon of oil 3-4 inches from the crackers. It will soak into the ground. That's good. The ants will not usually start on the oil unless they start first on the crackers. I don't know why. They carry the crackers off first, then start mining the oil. This is more difficult for them. They have to lick the oil from each grain of sand or bit of soil. By morning the oil field will be covered with miniature piles of mine tailings. The ants will be gone, sleeping it off, maybe.

When staying more than one night, I renew the sacrifice as needed. Once in the evening ( at all corners) is usually sufficient unless the ant population is unusually high, then I leave another one in the morning.

And treating hammock lines with permethrin is a good idea, too, in fire ant country. If they are working a tree, they will swarm a hammock tied to it. The sacrifices work for that, too.


Edited by Spock (09/18/08 04:52 PM)

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#99858 - 09/18/08 06:36 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Spock]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
I know that fire ant bait knocks them back pretty quick, just a couple of hours.
What is wrong with treating your camping area, especially a car camping area, with fire ant bait & killing them back for 2 or 3 days.

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#99859 - 09/19/08 04:58 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
I know that fire ant bait knocks them back pretty quick, just a couple of hours.



What fire ant bait does that?? Amdro takes days, since it is a growth inhibitor. Orthene takes hours but it is a serious poison and not a bait. I'd have no problem baiting a campsite with something that becomes inert like Amdro. It might even distract the ants from staying on DEFCON 2 all the time....but it takes a while for the ants to consider it food.
Interesting observation around here....ten years ago I would have a dozen mounds in my yard and some huge colonies back in my park. I don't have any mounds now. Wonder if they've moved on or are taking care of themselves?

Hammocks vs. Tarps....the question was "how to tarpers deal with ants". Answer..."we go to hammocks". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#99860 - 09/19/08 07:51 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Dryer]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
I used to do the grounds for a church and would throw down some powder I'd found(which I've forgotten, but I'll look around) & Amdro, together.
I literally could police the grounds @7am on a Sunday morning, powder & bait the rock lawn for fire ants around the play areas and by 8:30 not an ant to be found and stay clear of ants for a couple of weeks.

I found your park.

I hope fire ants are dying back.
I went to a church picnic a couple of years ago, in a field just outside of Nacogdoches, and the fire ants absolutely made it impossible to stop moving.
A person could not just stop, stand and converse without the ants attacking, and as the afternoon wore on, with 40 or so people tramping around, it just got worse & worse. The property owner was a botanist at the local university and had this peach orchard where the picnic was. He'd become convinced that the ants were developing immunity against the common ant killers.

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#99861 - 09/19/08 08:52 AM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: coyotemaster]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
I found your park.


Yup, that's my backyard. Click on the map link and you'll find my name at the bottom. I'm about to go out and mow the trails today....ick. Stevie's (Vaughn) mom gave us the money for that bridge.


I hear you about the fire ants. We don't have horny toads or quail because of the little monsters, both very plentiful at one time. The only good things about them are that they helped persuade me to try hammocks and the scorpion population has dropped. A scorpion sting feels about the same as a fire ant and I've never been covered in scorpions (many times ants! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />)....so maybe thats not a plus.
Our church broadcasts bait a few times a year which has kept them off the grounds.

I've been to many picnics and church events where fireants caused problems, especially with toddlers. It's horrible hearing little kids scream once an attack has begun, and then the aftermath a couple days later. Fire ants can put you in the hospital. They even find old folks in their beds, who can't fight 'em off.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#99862 - 09/21/08 12:40 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Dryer]
Folkalist Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 374
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
My heart broke when he died. Only good thing my ex-brother in law ever did was introduce me to SRV's music.
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Why am I online instead of hiking?

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#99863 - 09/28/08 11:20 PM Re: How does Tarp crowd handle ants? [Re: Dryer]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Suddenly I'm remembering why I live in AK...

<shudder>

MNS
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