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#95864 - 05/08/08 05:54 AM AT killer again
leadfoot Offline
member

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 954
Loc: Virginia

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#95865 - 05/08/08 06:23 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: leadfoot]
jshannon Offline
member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 410
Loc: North Texas
He needs to be put down.
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#95866 - 05/08/08 07:26 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: leadfoot]
SloHiker Offline
member

Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 46
Loc: NC
Why are people still surprised when things like this happen? He killed two people without provocation once - then he did it again. Let's give him one more chance - what do ya think?

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#95867 - 05/08/08 11:52 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: jshannon]
taylorcleblanc Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 8
Quote:
He needs to be put down.


Can I do it? J/K

Good case for allowing concealed carry in National Parks along with many other places.

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#95868 - 05/09/08 04:41 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: taylorcleblanc]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
We can toss a coin to see who gets to off him. What is wrong with our justice system? It sounds to me like they were ambushed? If that's the case, he had the drop on them and it would have been hard to return fire without getting shot. Sometimes, even with guns they can't protect you.
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#95869 - 05/09/08 08:43 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: SloHiker]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I'm not convinced that capital punishment is the answer, but if there was ever a case for it, this qualifies.

Why he was ever let out makes one wonder though. Even those strongly against the death penalty would strongly agree that convicted murderers like this one should never be released to kill again.

This happens way too often and there is little excuse for it. Only certain proof of innocence should be reason to release someone convicted of those types of crimes. A claim of rehabilitation should not be cause for release as that has clearly proven to be, at best, subjective opinion that cannot guarantee public safety .

To me, when the sentence of "Life" really means "Life", we'll have it right. That seems to be the only right solution.

But guys like this one sure make me wonder if there's not a time, for the sake of the public, to end a life. There are very compelling arguments for not keeping him around.

Bill

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#95870 - 05/09/08 01:08 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: leadfoot]
dirtt Offline
member

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 30
Loc: San Diego, Ca.
"The campsite is not far from where Smith killed two Maine hikers in 1981. The two hikers were walking the trail to raise money for retarded and troubled youths."

Good thing they didn't say mentally handicapped, I might have taken the editor seriously.

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#95871 - 05/09/08 05:36 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: leadfoot]
khanti Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 21
Loc: NE Wisconsin
I'm in no way condoning or excusing what this jack**s did, but:

Quote:
After prison, Smith returned to Pearisburg, where he moved in with his mother, who died eight years ago, according to neighbors. Yesterday, Sherman Smith, an unrelated neighbor on Virginia Street, said Smith kept to himself.

"Nobody would hire him, so he never had a job," Sherman Smith said. "I'll miss the dog more than I'll miss him."


If we ever expect released convicts to get on with life and 'rehabilitate' we need to provide opportunities for them to support themselves, otherwise the temptation to re-offend is great since they have no means of supporting or bettering themselves on the 'outside'.

Again. It may not apply in this case and I'm not excusing the S.*.B. but....

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#95872 - 05/09/08 08:29 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: dirtt]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
"The campsite is not far from where Smith killed two Maine hikers in 1981. The two hikers were walking the trail to raise money for retarded and troubled youths."

Good thing they didn't say mentally handicapped, I might have taken the editor seriously.


Mentally retarded is actually the official term, not mentally handicapped. No state that I know of, and nothing in federal disability and special education law, uses the term "mentally handicapped". It falls in the same literary genre as "troubled youth".
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#95873 - 05/09/08 08:41 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: khanti]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
I guess it's a subject of some fascination, a bit sensational.. "murder on the trail" or something like that...The details don't really matter.. .A bit like looking at a bad traffic accident.

But I think the emphasis placed on crime in general is far out of proportion to its actual significance. Consider the case of poisoned Halloween candy: My understanding is there has never been a recorded instance, but people seem to think it happens all the time.

-

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#95874 - 05/10/08 12:09 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: khanti]
GreenandTan Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 56
Quote:
I'm in no way condoning or excusing what this jack**s did, but:

Quote:
After prison, Smith returned to Pearisburg, where he moved in with his mother, who died eight years ago, according to neighbors. Yesterday, Sherman Smith, an unrelated neighbor on Virginia Street, said Smith kept to himself.

"Nobody would hire him, so he never had a job," Sherman Smith said. "I'll miss the dog more than I'll miss him."


If we ever expect released convicts to get on with life and 'rehabilitate' we need to provide opportunities for them to support themselves, otherwise the temptation to re-offend is great since they have no means of supporting or bettering themselves on the 'outside'.

Again. It may not apply in this case and I'm not excusing the S.*.B. but....


Yes, you are excusing him. Why do we need to provide opportunities for them? If people like him want to be a part of society they need to provide opportunities for themselves. His life is not my fault, or your fault. It is not my responsibility to look after people like this and make sure they are successful in life. If they are so messed up that they need to try to kill other people then they should not be out in society, but removed. He is worse than a non-contributor, he is a taker of the worse kind. His carbon footprint should be eliminated.


Edited by GreenandTan (05/10/08 12:16 AM)

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#95875 - 05/10/08 05:54 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: GreenandTan]
khanti Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 21
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Quote:

Yes, you are excusing him. Why do we need to provide opportunities for them? If people like him want to be a part of society they need to provide opportunities for themselves. His life is not my fault, or your fault. It is not my responsibility to look after people like this and make sure they are successful in life. If they are so messed up that they need to try to kill other people then they should not be out in society, but removed. He is worse than a non-contributor, he is a taker of the worse kind. His carbon footprint should be eliminated.


Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. It may not have worked in this guy's case, but I believe we have a duty as a society to give people a second chance including a means to support themselves, therapy, etc. They screw up again, then we've seen their true nature, but everyone deserves a second chance.

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#95876 - 05/10/08 07:07 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: khanti]
Ulhiker Offline
member

Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Arkansas
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!
If the guy was found guilty of killing two people back in 1981, then he should never have been let out of jail. Better yet, he should have been exterminated like the vermin he is back in 1982 and then we would not be having this discussion at all. There should not be any rehabilitation for people who murder other people. There should not be life without parole for these people. Put a needle in their arm and be done with it. They do not have the right to life after taking another.
Thank you and the soap box is now vacant.
_________________________
www.backpackingarkansas.com

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#95877 - 05/10/08 07:38 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: Ulhiker]
mockturtle Offline
member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA
True rehabilitation comes from within [or from God], not from therapy or education. The whole notion that criminals are, themselves, victims of their deprived upbringing or from ignorance flies in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Many people who had far worse childhoods than these murderers have become productive citizens in spite of their circumstances. It's high time we tossed out the old 'rehabilitation' model and resorted to the 'punishment' model. I'm sure there would be far fewer people in prison if they knew they were in for hard labor, bread and water instead of group therapy, satellite television, a well-appointed exercise facility and a free university education.

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#95878 - 05/10/08 07:52 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: SloHiker]
Damian Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 326
Quote:
Why are people still surprised when things like this happen? He killed two people without provocation once - then he did it again. Let's give him one more chance - what do ya think?



Did he kill this time? The article said one victim was injured and the other's status was unknown.

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#95879 - 05/10/08 08:49 AM Re: AT killer again [Re: khanti]
GreenandTan Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 56
Society has a duty to protect the public from killers. This person had no physical limitations that would have prevented him from being a productive citizen. Taking on multiple victims on a trail must be hard work. His problems in life are not a result of not physically being able to work. His problems are from within. A sociopath is not rehabilitatable. A sociopath who kills should not have a second chance. His victims had no "second chance."

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#95880 - 05/10/08 12:12 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: khanti]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. It may not have worked in this guy's case, but I believe we have a duty as a society to give people a second chance including a means to support themselves, therapy, etc. They screw up again, then we've seen their true nature, but everyone deserves a second chance.


I would agree that most crimes would fall under this concept, but not senseless murder. He should have been sentenced to life in prison with no parole. This guys "Second Chance" should have been limited to living in prison and not being put to death.

But that did not happen. They (Prison/State/Fed authorities) must have decided to let him go. I simply cannot blame his neighbors for his actions, nor will I blame the two young men he shot.

You have to think this through all the way... Here's my way <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm not a "Death Penalty" supporter. I know what's happened in Illinois and Texas and therefore I cannot support it. But I also cannot support the release of murderers like this one. I know that some will get out and kill again, therefore I cannot support any of them being released without absolute proof of innocence.

Personal experience....

My younger brother, Sam, is sitting in jail again after getting arrested for possession of hard drugs (meth) last week. He's 47 years old. He's been "Saved" every time he went to prison. He's been set up with cars, homes, furniture and food, nearly every time he's been released. Our family has spent tens of thousands on bail bondsman, lawyers, putting "Cash on his books", and "Getting him on his feet" when he got out. We all stopped a few years ago because each time he parlayed this generosity into more drugs. He has two older brothers, and two younger sisters, that have all done quite well for themselves and never been arrested for anything. We all grew up together. Our parents were there for all of us. The truth is the guy was a lying, conniving, skunk from the day he was born and he'll take as much as he can from anyone he can and everyone who thought he'd changed has been burned. And it's all his fault. No one else is responsible for the stupid things he does.

Worst of all is his lies. The love of family is strong and you want so bad to believe that a loved one is innocent and truthful that you'll believe their lies.

But he's never murdered anyone, so I don't mind when he's out. The difference now is that I know he'll do drugs again and I know he'll lie too. I would not extend that grace to a ruthless murderer. I would never let them out.

I'm pretty sure that's all I have to say about that. (Do I hear a big sigh of relief? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Bill

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#95881 - 05/10/08 12:29 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: khanti]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
If they screw up again???????? The second time might be someone you care about. Then unless you are a supreme pacifist, you will want to kill him.
I like the idea of eliminating his carbon footprint. O.k. maybe a little carbon when he his cremated. Then use his burnt remains to do something useful like fertilizer.

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#95882 - 05/10/08 12:41 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: billstephenson]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I too had a brother that would lie, do drugs and pawn my families things to get more drugs. I don't think it mattered what drugs. One Christmas he showed up at my parents and said he had bought everyone a present but his truck was broken into and the thieves took it all. That was after he went through a business, several cars, two boats and a house. He died in a head on crash that took his life and also the lives of 3 other adults with families. He never killed anyone? he did in the end. But I will say this, he was also the type that would do anything for you. For instance, if he knew you and liked you, and you were building a backyard project. He would work his [Edited for inappropriate languge, please review forum policies for more information] off just to have something to do. He wouldn't expect anything from you. Yet he couldn't get it together after being in rehab 3 times. Now how many chances would you think my brother should get?
Chuck...

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#95883 - 05/10/08 12:53 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: chaz]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
Now how many chances would you think my brother should get?


Well that's a valid point and deserves real consideration.

I need to know this... Was his driver's license valid or had it been revoked for DUI's?

Bill

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#95884 - 05/10/08 12:53 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: mockturtle]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Amen. I don't have cable TV.
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#95885 - 05/10/08 01:03 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: mockturtle]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
My idea of prison is a little room with a bed, toilet and shower. You get locked in alone until your time is up. You get reading material from the library cart, and that's it -- no television, radio, DVDs, etc. You get limited, inspected snail mail, no email, phone calls, etc. You don't mingle with the population to learn how to be a better criminal. You don't get weight training to better beat up your fellow human beings. If you made a mistake, you emerge with a desire to rejoin the human race and a determination not to go back to that hole again. You don't emerge with AIDS or missing pieces.

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#95886 - 05/10/08 04:19 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: Ulhiker]
khanti Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 21
Loc: NE Wisconsin
OK, now we're getting somewhere! If they are going to release a person like this, give him a chance to succeed. Do I believe this particular person should have been released?? Heck no! Cold blooded murderers should get life without parole. Period.

For other offenders, though, by releasing them, the courts think they are effectively saying: "OK, you've paid your debt, go on and be a good boy/girl now." but by not giving that person any kind of support upon release, what they're really saying is "Have a nice vacation, see you in six months!"

Frankly, I'm a little surprised and disappointed by the vengeful/hateful attitudes here. And yes, I am a pacifist.

Some appropriate quotes from His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama:

"Criminals, people who commit crimes, usually society rejects these people. They are also part of society. Give them some form of punishment to say they were wrong, but show them they are part of society and can change. Show them compassion."

"My overriding belief is that it is always possible for criminals to improve and that by its very finality the death penalty contradicts this. Therefore, I support those organizations and individuals who are trying to bring an end to the use of the death penalty"

but....

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

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#95887 - 05/10/08 05:21 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: khanti]
GreenandTan Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 56
I have plenty of compassion and I do think that we should help others, but not murderers.

Those who are physically or mentally disabled should be cared for. This is different than doling out success. Having the government put in the position of providing opportunities for people to succeed is unrealistic and only weakens society as a whole. Everybody doesn't get a trophy in life. The only way "the system" let this guy down is by not punishing him enough and releasing him.
The big question is, why does lack of success and opportunity equal being a cold blooded killer?

The government is not the cause of all the ills nor is it the solution. The individual is responsible for themselves, their actions and should be held accountable for what they do. It is also the individual who is responsible for their successes in life.

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#95888 - 05/10/08 05:50 PM Re: AT killer again [Re: GreenandTan]
khanti Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 21
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Quote:
Those who are physically or mentally disabled should be cared for.


And I submit that criminals are mentally disabled by definition except in cases where the law broken is a 'bad' law (another argument for another time). Anyone willing to hurt another human being has a screw loose.

Quote:
The only way "the system" let this guy down is by not punishing him enough and releasing him.


Not the only way, just the first way.

Quote:
The individual is responsible for themselves, their actions and should be held accountable for what they do. It is also the individual who is responsible for their successes in life.


Agreed and agreed

However, while released convicts should be responsible for their own success, the should not be permanently barred from finding gainful employment or housing as they so often are. Once released, they should be allowed to re-integrate into society. If we aren't willing to do that, then we should not release them.


Edited by khanti (05/10/08 06:04 PM)

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