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#95713 - 05/06/08 06:42 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: tarbubble]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Don't forget Texas. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#95714 - 05/06/08 06:47 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: tarbubble]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Thanks for the translation tarbubble. I speak two languages, but spanish isn't one of them. Most of the spanish I know is Texas slang. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#95715 - 05/06/08 03:23 PM Re: Made in the USA [Re: RBrownkatz]
Dimitri Offline
member

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 85
Alot of the "Tactical" nylon companies make their stuff in the USA still. Sure not exactly "camping" colors but works well and backed by lifetime warrentees that go the extra mile.

Tactical Talior,, London Bridge Trading, HSGI Gear, Original SOE, Eagle Industries, TAG Gear etc.

Dimitri

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#95716 - 05/06/08 03:41 PM Re: Made in the USA [Re: tarbubble]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
T bubble - My point was to ask what does it matter- made in us or not, if it made by cheap imported labor. The economic problem is not going to be solved by purchasing more us made stuff. And it does matter that illegals work here - taxes or not. They will work for less money and drive down wages and working conditions - hence the rich get richer. If Americans will not work for less money, then just import cheap labor, but its okay cause they pay a little tax here and there???? No way. They need to fix their own problems and stay at home. I have nothing against them as humans. No prejudice here. I just hate to see them take jobs from people who have kids that go to school with my kids and that sort of stuff - and the only reason is that they work cheaper.

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#95717 - 05/06/08 04:56 PM Re: Made in the USA [Re: hootyhoo]
drow42 Offline
member

Registered: 03/27/04
Posts: 144
Loc: Washington, DC
Quote:
My point was to ask what does it matter- made in us or not, if it made by cheap imported labor. The economic problem is not going to be solved by purchasing more us made stuff. And it does matter that illegals work here - taxes or not.


Wow! So you are categorizing all people that are either born in Mexico (or other places not the US) as illegals, as you seemed to have done in your previous two posts?! What is that?! I'm personally from immigrant decent, but I have a high paying job.

Plus, as far as "fixing their problems at home", what do you think drove the European immigration waves? The great Potato over abundance? All the religious tolerance? Boy I just wanted a cruise?

Besides, we don't need cheap labor to move here to "take" US jobs, we're more than happy to move those jobs out of the US. One way or another those jobs are no long accessible to the US, this is the world economy. Shutting down the borders is not going to change that. Innovation is the way forward, not clinging on to some past notion of what jobs we should have available to us. If we do not innovate, yet still demand to have the highest standard of living on the planet then our jobs are not taken, we have decided to give them away.

Thats why so many of the US cottage gear makers are so great, not because they are in the US, but because they innovate. I just hope that we continue to have an economic environment that encourages new ideas (even if the people who have them weren't born here).


Edited by drow42 (05/06/08 05:01 PM)

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#95718 - 05/06/08 05:29 PM Re: Made in the USA [Re: drow42]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
Drow,
It always has to be about you doesn't it?
You must be very sensitive to have read all that in my posts. You might want to meet my wife before you accuse me of stereo typical behavior - sorry if I offended you. But -- for instance Miller brewing is one of the worst offenders of exploiting illegal immigrant workers in order to have a bigger bottom line - that is what I dislike. But you go ahead and let it happen - then if your payscale drops like that of other folks you might understand.

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#95719 - 05/06/08 06:14 PM Re: Made in the USA [Re: hootyhoo]
drow42 Offline
member

Registered: 03/27/04
Posts: 144
Loc: Washington, DC
My issue had a lot more with you implying that ULA must have cheap imported labor because they have Latin Americans making the packs. This started with your comments about ULA employees then tarbubble asked "...if somebody's here legally and they're paying their taxes i don't care where they were born?" You then replied it didn't matter if they payed taxes or not, they were still damaging the economy (my paraphrase), and it seemed to me ignoring the fact that the employees were legal. Maybe I read it wrong, or misinterpreted, but it looked to me like you were lumping all immigrants legal or not in one pot.

Now to be fair, I stated that I was an immigrant decent, which is true, but it is of European decent (inheriting many advantages, however unfairly earned), and I am about 3-4 generations in. Nonetheless, it is my roots, and at one point my family was not from here. Probably disingenuous on my part. Sorry. But I also have a lot of friends that are zeroth and first generation Americans, and although they were not born here, we are better off having them here. I was more offended for them, rather than personally offended.

I think what might agree on is that illegal immigration is not good, not for the US and not for the illegal immigrants (or probably legal as well). I personally think we need some significant reform in our policies, but the details of which would cause this thread to wander even further from the point.

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#95720 - 05/07/08 09:18 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: drow42]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
> I'm personally from immigrant decent

We all are over here. Even the "natives" walked in over a land bridge from Asia.

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#95721 - 05/07/08 09:35 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: drow42]
tarbubble Offline
member

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 996
Loc: ca-li-for-ni-a
agreed. where are the native-born americans who are willing to take low-wage sewing jobs? my grandma slaved as a piece sewer and in sweatshops. it's hard unrewarding work and i don't want it for my kids, but somebody has to make clothes. minimum wage is minimum wage, whether you're a legal immigrant or USA-born.


and as far as immigrants coming in and dragging down our wages - at my husband's work (computer engineering) they CANNOT fill the positions with US citizens, because there are not enough US citizens going into the sciences. they can't get qualified candidates who are US-born. my husband's team at his last job was 60% vietnamese, 10% european and 20% us-born. when he left he was replaced by an Indian. At his newer job his team is mainly Indian, with one Greek and a couple of europeans thrown in. his boss is from China. This is just the reality in our little tech-centered area. it's not going to go away.

we are facing a huge problem here with a decline in placing importance on education. science is the future and we are falling behind fast. our culture no longer values education - we pay it lip service but everybody wants to get rich quick. it's why we've had bubble after bubble burst - the stock burst of 2000-2001, the housing bubble that's falling apart now, and the commodities bubble that's currently swelling (although gas won't be coming down again).

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#95722 - 05/07/08 09:49 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: tarbubble]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:

and as far as immigrants coming in and dragging down our wages - at my husband's work (computer engineering) they CANNOT fill the positions with US citizens, because there are not enough US citizens going into the sciences. they can't get qualified candidates who are US-born. my husband's team at his last job was 60% vietnamese, 10% european and 20% us-born. when he left he was replaced by an Indian. At his newer job his team is mainly Indian, with one Greek and a couple of europeans thrown in. his boss is from China. This is just the reality in our little tech-centered area. it's not going to go away.

we are facing a huge problem here with a decline in placing importance on education. science is the future and we are falling behind fast. our culture no longer values education - we pay it lip service but everybody wants to get rich quick. it's why we've had bubble after bubble burst - the stock burst of 2000-2001, the housing bubble that's falling apart now, and the commodities bubble that's currently swelling (although gas won't be coming down again).


I think tarbubble is right-on here. I work with an R&D company as an engineer. There is a huge shortage of Engineers and Scientists in the country, and my company is having to pull many from overseas, especially India and China. These are high paying jobs (entry level $50,000+ a year) that could be filed with US citizens. My state is also having a huge shortage of machinists. I see education as a major problem.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#95723 - 05/19/08 10:26 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: tarbubble]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee


Did this suddenly change to an illegal immigrant discussion site. WOW !!!!!! What just happened??? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#95724 - 05/19/08 10:28 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: drow42]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee


Can't we all just get along ???????? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#95725 - 05/22/08 02:30 AM Re: Made in the USA [Re: sabre11004]
RBrownkatz Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/21/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Bartow, FL
The impetus for my question is simply this: my wife and I are planning an AT thru and would like to buy gear as responsibly as possible. I used to be a journalist and learned that at times it is best to cast a wide net, to ask open ended questions, because that exposes you to unexpected answers, and to ask from as many sources as possible. I have even been learning that I don't yet know what "responsibly" means. I have been a member of some of the boards I posted this on for months, a lurker at others for months, and some I just joined. My "mission" is simply to learn.

And boy, have I been learning. I am grateful to everyone who has replied on every board. I am putting together quite a list. On one board someone even started a thread listing where different brands are made by country. Very interesting.

Thanks everyone.
_________________________
www.Brownkatzoutdoors.com

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