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#92569 - 04/02/08 11:36 AM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Paddy_Crow]
6brnorma Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 252
Loc: Arizona
Quote:
I already have a .40 S&W compact, but it's not quite as small as I'd like for concealed carry. It now occupies my night stand.


I'm the same way...I've got the H&K compact in S&W .40 but it just doesn't carry well.

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#92570 - 04/02/08 02:26 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 122
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
Quote:
I've been following this thread, I haven't seen much comment on the Kahr PM9 polymer frame. Anyone shot one? Not sure whether DA only trigger pull will be comfortable.



Kahr makes a very smooth double action combat trigger. I have not shot the PM9 but the MK9, its steel body sister, shoots very accurately.

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#92571 - 04/02/08 04:23 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Dryer]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee


Yes I have several of those hand guns and all are sort of six of one and half a dozen of the other if you know what I mean. They are all very effective and none of the differences as far as weight will make that much difference. Hell I carry a Berreta 92FS with me...Hope this helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#92572 - 04/02/08 07:44 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: phat]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
Geez - roll your own man!

I do roll my own!! The price of 9mm and 45 factory is cheaper than home brew! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've got a few hundred reloads made up but still, it's the principle of the whole thing!


Edited by Dryer (04/02/08 07:52 PM)
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#92573 - 04/02/08 08:05 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Arizona]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
We had a Kahr 9 for a couple years and it was my first carry gun. Only thing was wow...it had kick back. It was a well built piece and quite affordable though.

I don't cut weight though in this area. The extra weight makes it easier to shoot for my hands. I use a Kimber 45 officer carry or a Springfield XD9 nowdays.
_________________________
Freezer Bag Cooking, Trail Cooking, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
www.trailcooking.com

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#92574 - 04/03/08 07:52 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms (For bears or people?). [Re: Dryer]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
People keep talking about minor caliber (9mm or less) caliber weapons. These minor caliber weapons are OK for people but just piss bears off even more.

If yer gonna get a backpacking carry gun then get one that covers all bases.
As Robert Ruark, the great African Safari writer titled his book, "Use Enough Gun".

And Lord help you if you don't.

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#92575 - 04/03/08 08:02 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms (For bears or people?). [Re: 300winmag]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
Never carried for a bear. Don't plan on it either. I have respect but not fear for them out here. I carry for the two legged creatures....
_________________________
Freezer Bag Cooking, Trail Cooking, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
www.trailcooking.com

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#92576 - 04/03/08 09:24 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms (For bears or people?). [Re: 300winmag]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
I started this thread to discuss some of the newer concealed carry type, ultralight, weapons (S&W 340pd, kel tec, Sccy CPX-1, Ruger LCP, Glock 26/36, Kahr, ect.) I don't carry for bears or cats, and usually not at all, mostly because of weight. The new trend for bigger calibers in little plastic/metal frames has the weight coming right on down.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#92577 - 04/04/08 03:17 AM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Dryer]
12Step Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 89
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I live in an area where there are no bears. But from what I've read about both black and grizzlies, the most dangerous bear is an injured bear. Most handguns are going to do nothing but injure them, and the only bears I might run into are black bears, and from what I've read they usually just run from you.

If I carry, it's more for people.

I've got a choice to either carry a mini Glock model 27 (40 cal) or the .357 Taurus Titanium. Both are about the same size. The Glock is a little wider and heavier, but holds 10 rounds. The Taurus only holds 5 rounds, but is a little more than half of weight of the Glock.

Either way I don't really have to carry any of them, it's more of a preference thing. If you do decide to carry, it is obviously important to have knowledge (the law), common sense, and responsibility. You never just start shooting at a bear to be on the safe side. You got to remember not only is carrying a firearm is extra weight no matter how light it is, but also extra responsibility or hassle depending on how you look at it.


Tom
_________________________
"Let's not miss the beauty of the forest by the ugliness of some of its trees." Bill W.

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#92578 - 04/05/08 09:47 AM Re: Lightweight sidearms (For bears or people?). [Re: sarbar]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
Ah, so it's not about 4-legged muggers. The 340 PD in the original post is one gun I've handled in a shop but never shot. I own a Ruger SP101, which is a steel sherman tank version of that gun but of another make. The 340 weighs less than half as much, and I can't see shooting the same .357 magnums out of both guns; they're already at the edge of controllability when fired from the 25.5 oz. Ruger. I think I'd only fire .38 spl or .38+p out of the 340. I think I'd prefer the Smith 642 in that case; it weighs 2 or 3 ounces more, but costs a lot less and would be more pleasant to shoot. You'd have to ask how much those extra ounces of lightness are worth.

Has anyone fired a American derringer? They strike me as cheap, but they're very minimalist as they only hold a shot or two. I'm sure they're very light.

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#92579 - 04/06/08 04:18 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms... Great 'links to read! [Re: Dryer]
longhair29 Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 1328
Loc: Floridad
I've been reading this unique firearm's website alot recently and I LOVE the name.

www.mouseguns.com

But what I really like about this site is Thee extremely detailed info presented and the owner reviews of these firearms. There is something here for everyone short of needing one of new .500 Hand artillery cannons. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pocket Guns - http://www.mouseguns.com/pocksize.htm

Ruger's new LCP (Light-weight Concealed Pistol) review - http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LCP.htm

Light weight Revolvers - http://www.mouseguns.com/revs.htm

.32 Magnum UL Taurus Revolver - http://gunblast.com/Taurus_UltraLite32.htm

Light weight Semi-Automatic Pistols most under 16-ounces http://www.mouseguns.com/semis.htm

Small Light Weight Rifles and Carbines - http://www.mouseguns.com/smallrif.htm

Check out the SUB 2000 folding 9mm/.40cal Carbine by Kel-Tec, sweet and sick. Looks like it'd be a fun to shoot.

http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm

RATGUNS - "Ratgun" definition -- A ratgun is a small semi-auto gun, almost pocket-sized, that chambers a round more powerful than a 9mm. (The line must be drawn somewhere, so I'm classifying 9mm pistols that weigh less than 16 ounces as mouseguns. I also consider revolvers to be too fat to be in the ratgun category.) A ratgun is a mousegun on steroids!"

http://www.mouseguns.com/ratguns/ratguns.htm

Enjoy www.mouseguns.com a wealth of info and numerous excellent fun to read 'links'

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#92580 - 04/06/08 04:24 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms... Great 'links to read! [Re: longhair29]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3967
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Hey Longhair
what happened to you?
Nice to hear frm you again.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#92581 - 04/06/08 04:49 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms... Great 'links to read! [Re: Jimshaw]
longhair29 Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 1328
Loc: Floridad
Yeah, it's been a LONG time indeed since I posted on this forum. Several reasons come to mind........... boredom and rehashing over and over Thee same old topics that are just re-posted by new people.

I've got a subscription with bkpackinglight which expires this year and even that has become rather dull.

This gun thread has been really fascinating to read since I'm in the market. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Mostly for open carry in Bear country. I'm going to enroll in some firearm's training courses this Summer.

What's up with you?

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#92582 - 04/06/08 05:51 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms... Great 'links to read! [Re: longhair29]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
Longhair, where are you planning on taking the firearms course? I also live in WA and am thinking of taking a defensive handgun course from Insights.

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#92583 - 04/08/08 07:25 PM Re: Great 'links to read! Wolfeye [Re: Wolfeye]
longhair29 Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 1328
Loc: Floridad
Wolfeye,

I haven't decided yet, but most likely at Wade's shooting range in Belluvue because it's just across the pond from me.

To my knowledge no other 'local' gun range offers such a WIDE range of handguns to train with included in a package this affordable. See 2nd course below.

http://www.wadesguns.com/

"Basic Handgun Safety Class
4 hours - 1 night - $80
If you are considering the purchase of a handgun, or perhaps have one and are not yet confident in your gun handling skills, this class will provide you with the information and hands on experience to safely operate pistols. In this 4 hour format, students will spend half of their time in the classroom and half on the range. On the range, students learn the details of marksmanship and will fire both revolvers and semi-automatics in various calibers.

Evenings, 6pm - 10pm

All equipment is provided for this class. Children 13-17 years old are welcome to attend the Basic Handgun Safety Class if a parent or guardian is present.

Introductory Handgun
9 hours - 3 nights - $150
This course covers all the handgun safety, operation and marksmanship material from the Basic Class and expands into more detail. Handgun legalities are also covered in lecture regarding purchase, transportation and storage. Concealed pistol licenses and use of force considerations in Washington State will also be addressed. Other topics include personal awareness/security at home and in public, types of handguns and ammunition, i.e. styles, manufacturers, calibers and bullet types.

On the range students will be able to fire revolvers, and semi-autos in .22, .38 Spl., .357 mag, 9mm, .40 SW, .45 ACP & .44 Mag as well as particular models of interest in our range rental counter.

The following run from 6:30-9:30pm

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#92584 - 04/17/08 11:45 AM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Dryer]
SloHiker Offline
member

Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 46
Loc: NC
Dryer,

Of the models you've mentioned - there's certainly a bit of disparity between caliber and quality. I don't think much of KelTec's - and even though I have seen a few PF-9's give reasonable service, I couldn't recommend them. The Ruger LCP is too new to have a track record, but it's a .380, so your limited by the cartridge itself. The S&W 340PD is a dandy little revolver, though it's a bit pricey.

Another alternative, since you've included the .380 cartridge in the mix, would be one of S&W's other J-Frame revolvers chambered in .38 Special .... i.e. Mod 442/642/638 - or even the slightly lower priced .357 chambered Mod M&P340 would be a good choice.

Having said all that - I'd rather have a KelTec .380 than nothing at all, if that were the choice. After all, the FIRST rule of NEED is ..... HAVE A GUN!

When the need arises (whatever circumstance that happens to be), having the "wrong" gun can have tragic consequences - But, having NO gun is almost always tragic!

The opinions expressed are based on the following: Former LEO (25 yrs), SWAT Commander & Team Member, Firearms Instructor (25 yrs), Agency Training Coordinator, Factory Trained Armorer, Officer Survival Instructor, CCW Instructor, (2) GUNSITE "E" Tickets ......blah, blah, blah .......


Edited by SloHiker (04/17/08 12:13 PM)

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#92585 - 04/17/08 01:52 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: SloHiker]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Thanks, SloHiker, I respect a LEO's opinion above all others.

So.....

the winner is.....

Glock 26!

I decided a bit more weight is worth the reliability and proven track record. They're fat but small enough to meet hiking needs and eat just about anything they are fed.
ALL the other choices, except the 340PD, were compromises. So I asked myself, why?
I consider the Ruger as another good option...when more become available. But as you said, the jury is still out. Hiccups will start surfacing soon and LCPII will be next.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#92586 - 04/18/08 07:31 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Jimshaw]
6brnorma Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 252
Loc: Arizona
Quote:
I cannot eject some hot loads from my .44 without a hammer and a ram rod because the brass flows under the load pressure. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I'm firing .44 P++magnums and brown bear loads. Now a brown bear load has a 480 grain slug (square ends and it just fills the entire chmber) and the powder is backed off to 19 grains, and its still a compressed powder load, which means the bullet is so large that there isn't enough room for the powder, and extreme initial pressure and burn rate result.


Jim,
Who makes a 480 Gr. in.44?

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#92587 - 04/24/08 10:23 PM Re: Glock 26 [Re: Dryer]
Ecrow Offline
member

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 85
Loc: N. New Mexico
My Glock 26 (9mm) weighs 19 oz empty and 26 oz with 12 in it.(appx.) Cor Bon hits the hardest and CCI Lawman is good too. Phat is SOOOO right about 22 stingers, they hit as hard as some .38s, and cycle really fast and are very accurate. I sleep with my glock in my bag and will take my chances setting my bag ablaze. And I sleep really good.

Look at nylon camera cases with velcro, noone notices them.
_________________________
Ecrow
Live to tell.

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#92588 - 04/25/08 05:00 AM Re: Glock 26 [Re: Ecrow]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Another interesting thing about carrying the Glock...I took a Glock brand kydex belt holster ($12), trimmed it to fit in a small fanny pack, and sewed it to the back wall with a velcro loop for the stocks (I guess you can call Glock handles 'stocks'). Anyway, the thing is completely secure, makes the pack look and hang empty, and cross draws perfectly. That particular holster covers the trigger and has a retention detent. I usually carry a little belt pack for essentials for side excursions, sans big pack, so this will have good utilitarian value too.
Walmart's "Outdoor Products" smallest fanny pack fits sub-compact weapons like they were custom made. And, if you go at it with seam ripper, you can remove all the useless stuff and lighten them right up! Like I said before, I normally don't carry, but for doing trail work or hiking hot spots like my southern border, this should work out fine.

_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#92589 - 04/25/08 01:18 PM Re: Glock 26 [Re: Dryer]
6brnorma Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 252
Loc: Arizona
I like the idea Paul.

I'm wondering though....is that your head or your butt you're trying to hide in the first photo???? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#92590 - 04/25/08 01:28 PM Re: Glock 26 [Re: 6brnorma]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Hmmmmm.....too much hair to be my head. Could be my butt, I suppose.
Actually I forgot to shave my knees before using them as a backdrop.
Sure makes for an interesting picture, now that I'm looking at it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#92591 - 04/25/08 01:53 PM Re: Glock 26 [Re: Dryer]
6brnorma Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 252
Loc: Arizona
LMAO.....wouldn't have been my guess....but if that's your story and you're sticking to it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#92592 - 04/25/08 02:25 PM Re: Glock 26 [Re: 6brnorma]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
I often hike late at night in areas that are popular for backpackers.

Several times as I've passed along, backpackers have awakened in some sort of apparent panic at my approach.

I gather they find my activity inconceivable and assume that I must be a psychotic killer or rabid animal.

At times I wonder -- what if they are drunk and carrying a pistol that they "need" for camping --- due to all the psychotic killers, criminals, and agressive, rabid animal and bears susceptible to handguns that fill the woods.

--

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#92593 - 04/28/08 11:37 PM Re: Lightweight sidearms....interesting choices. [Re: Dryer]
lv2fsh Offline
member

Registered: 04/27/08
Posts: 111
Loc: socal
I vote for the S&W 340PD. For self defense against any two legged threat, anything less than .357, .45, or .40 cal is just not going to cut it for me. As a Deputy Sheriff, I started with the Ruger .357 GP100 4". My department then started issuing the Glock 17 9mm. It seemed like a no brainer 3 times the bullets, magazine vs. speedloaders. Then I started hearing stories of suspects being hit several times before going down and worse being able to return fire. I started talking to coroners and homicide detective friends and the disparity between 9mm wounds and .45 was dramatic. The choice was clear, go back to my .357 or purchase a .45. I chose the Glock 21 .45 cal. My department has now started issuing the Glock 21. The U.S. Army went to the .45 after the dismal performance of the .38 special against drugged up tribesman in the Philipines. Todays crackheads aren't any easier to stop. I carry my S&W 340PD as a backup onduty and as an offduty. I like my Glock 21 with the laser/tac light for on duty but do not carry it while backpacking. The main reason is it is an AUTO. Semiauto handguns need to be kept clean and properly oiled to function reliably.(oil attracts dirt) During my time shooting on the range and elsewhere, I have seen semiautos jam and fail to cycle numerous times. Usually this was due to gun maintenance or poor quality ammo but could be something as simple as a limp wrist. With the possible exception of bad ammo(usually reloads) I have seen almost no failures of wheelguns. So unless you're going to be religious about keeping your firearm in top shape(which I do every day at work), stick with a wheelgun. I used to carry my heavy Ruger .357 when I went backpacking and always slept good with it by my head. I now carry the 340PD and barely know its there.
My experience with bears has been that with the exception of National Park bears(can't have guns there anyway), they usually run at the sound of your voice. One time I had one return after being ran off and had to fire a warning shot. I think he's still running. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, if a black bear decides that you are dinner and comes at you, you had better be ready to fight with everything you got. As with street racing, you gotta run what ya brung! I don't want to be trying to stop a hungry bear or a tweaked out crook with a 9mm or worse. One last note on the 340PD. It is a handful to fire with .357 but quite controllable with .38+P ammo. I usually carry four .38+P's and one .357 on duty and 3 and 2 for backpacking. Also use quality .357 ammo with a good crimp on the slug. I was shooting some of that .357 ammo with the aluminum cases and after two shot the slugs started to slide out of the cases from the recoil and locked up the gun. (not good <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />) Sorry for carrying on so long but when your life depends on it daily, you put a lot of thought on it. Now let's go fishing!

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