Ok I know some will say this is to wide of a topic , but it is one I would love to hear many side topics of. Dogs, I love my dog (a 100lb pit bull that is just a big lap dog) and more than that I love hiking with my dog. Now here is one side topic, what is the best way to train a dog to heal on a trail. My dog stays near me but he likes to run and explore all things around me. I have never taken him backpacking partly due to this. My second topic is camping with your dog, do you set up a shelter for the mutt, tie him up so he does not run around all night, or just let him find his own spot to crash? My third and I swear my last topic is What do you think is a great breed for a backpacking dog? I am thinking about getting another dog so I can train him to hike and camp, and still be able to leave my pit bull to stay home with my soon to be wife. Thanks for the help on any of the three topics and sorry if you think I should have made three seperate post.

My hiking buddy is "Hysson," a Lab-Golden retriever mix. Of course he is the perfect hiking dog!<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He was supposed to be an assistance dog but has an overbite (undershot lower jaw) so was rejected as a puppy. He sheds perpetually and (because of his overbite) drools water all over the kitchen floor after drinking. Despite his parentage, he won't retrieve (the overbite again) and won't swim! But he's my constant companion and I love him dearly.

There have been quite a few threads on hiking with dogs the past few years and you might want to do a search (you have to change the date parameter).

A few things to think about: Many hikers don't like dogs, especially dogs that are allowed to run free, poop where they please, chase wildlife and bark half the night (accompanied by the owner's yelling). Of course all this is the owner's fault, but a few instances of this behavior are enough to enlist plenty of recruits for the "ban the dogs" bandwagon. A lot of people are nervous around dogs, often due to being bitten in childhood (I'm one of those). They get especially nervous when a strange dog--no matter how friendly--comes out of nowhere, rushes up to them and starts sniffing the family jewels (a very normal thing for a dog to do). Many otherwise friendly, lovable dogs become nervous and/or overprotective in strange places, such as out in the trail. Most hikers can cite more than one incident when a dog running ahead of its owner threatened or even bit them.

For all these reasons, I keep Hysson on leash most of the time when I'm hiking, even though he's thoroughly obedience-trained. Normally I don't have him at heel but use the "walk" command--he can walk where he wants as long as he keeps his 6-foot leash slack. If I let him off-leash (only on unpopulated trails), I make him walk behind me so I can grab him in a hurry if we meet someone or spot a wild animal. I've had a number of people thank me for keeping him on leash!

As you know, you have the additional handicap of a dog breed that has a really bad reputation. I've met a number of pit bulls that were real sweethearts, but unfortunately not all of them are. This is a further reason to keep your dog on leash, as a courtesy to other hikers.

Thorough obedience training is the first step in making a good hiking dog. Find a good training school and enroll in obedience classes. It's going to take several classes, normally with at least two repetitions of each class (the first to train you and the second to train your dog), plus daily practice at home. But it's worth the time and money to have a well-trained dog. Be sure to check out the trainers' credentials. The school Hysson and I attended is heavily involved in pit bull rescue with excellent results, and they've won a lot of obedience and agility awards with those rescued dogs. They've also had an unusually high number of graduates earn the AKC's Canine Good Citizen certificate.

Another important step is conditioning--you need to start slowly and work up gradually with the dog just as you need to do with yourself--it's best if you get fit together. If you get a pup, don't do too much the first year--a few miles is plenty. Larger breeds' joints mature later, so don't start really long hikes or carrying a pack until about 18 months and don't work up to full weight in a pack until about 2 years. Check with your veterinarian and heed her instructions.

Hysson carries his own doggie pack with all his own gear, food and water, except for his pad. Since I use an air mattress, I need Hysson's closed-cell foam pad in my pack's suspension. He sleeps in my tent with me--great to snuggle up to on a cold night! He needs a lightweight jacket only for freezing nights because he's pretty hairy. A dog with short thin hair, though, will need a jacket on all but very warm nights and very possibly a rain jacket.

I agree with OregonMouse on the obedience training. A class will get you motivated and make you stay with the training. You need the time though to train most days, at least 15 minutes so the dog doesn't get bored. I bought a book to help with commands and hand signals, after I bought it, I saw it was dated back to the '50's. Instructors commands and hand signals will vary, person to person. It is super cool to have your dog trained to hand signals. My last dog, Pooch, was partially trained in SAR and it was very neat when he "alerted" for the first time. Since your dog isn't real young, it may be harder to train now and being a Pitbull. The few I have seen, were not trained or didn't obey, like the renters close by, who let their dogs bark for five minutes before yelling at them, then the whole thing repeats.

I always started my dogs carrying packs when they were able to fit into a pack, never gave it a thought about letting their bones/bodies mature some first. Since I live in a rural area and five minutes from Forest Service land, I always took my dog or dogs on walks, so they were always in shape. Unless your dog is a real couch potato, it should be able to out walk you. On that note, some former neighbors had a small dog that was always tied up, so one weekend when they were gone, they had asked me to watch him a little, I decided the little guy needed to go for a short walk. After 3/4 mile looked like he was a little warm/tired so we headed back home. About 100 yards from home, he laid down on the ground and started panting and looking like he had had it. I was saying oh sh__ and after waiting a few minutes, got him home and never did that again.

My late female dobie went on her first week long trip at 10 weeks of age. Her dad and I carried the food and gear. She did great, got a little tired running ahead to the shade, I carried her a little, time to time. She got nailed by some yellow jackets one morning and went crying down the trail, but I was able to call her back and brushed them off of her. She was fine later, poor thing. The last day out, we met some guys on the trail and they offered to buy her, I turned them down.

Living here in the mountains of northern California, I rarely have had my dogs on leash while hiking or bping as we don't see many people. The only exception would be Desolation Wilderness by Lake Tahoe and then, after the first day you were fine and people thinned out, most day hikers go in to the first lakes or four miles at the most for a visit. I've been in there when the wilderness ranger had their dog loose also. Depends on the circumstances.

I usually brought my dogs into the tent at night to relieve them from fighting off bugs and to know where they are and to keep them away from wild animals, mostly skunks or porcupines if they were present at night. I only had one person say anything over the years and at the time the dog should have been on leash.

Excellent post OM; I agree entirely. I am at present breaking in a new trail dog as a hiking companion. She is a 15-month-old Golden Retriever and is presently in obedience training. She is also still a real flibberty-gibbet so she is still on-leash on hikes.

One thing for trail dogs: I recommend rattlesnake aversion training for anyone who hikes with their dog in snake country; it can save you a vet bill of several thousand dollars. Too bad there are no skunk or porcupine aversion classes.

Pika,
Around here in Central Oregon we have rattlers. The vets have something to immunize the dogs, but there aren't many up slope from us and thats where we hang so I haven't done it. East of Bend out in the desert theres lots, but I can't take my greyhound there cause shes sliced a leg open before running on sharp volcanic rocks. I never heard of rattler aversion training before, good idea.<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I was just reminded on another forum that packs of coyotes dearly love to lure domestic dogs off to play and then attack them. The variety of critters that would enjoy a dog for dinner is another excellent reason for keeping dogs on leash. On the other hand, I rely on my dog's superior senses to alert me if there are other animals around--I actually see more wildlife when I have him with me. No, he doesn't bark, just gets very alert. If we were being stalked by a cougar, he'd let me know!

Normally, one bout with a skunk or a porcupine is enough for a dog. (With the former, I discovered that vinegar is better than tomato juice.) However, my parents once had a cocker spaniel that had to have quills pulled numerous times. This same dog never learned about horses, either--he would get kicked and be out cold for several minutes and then immediately run under the horses' feet again! I hope Hysson has had his porcupine fix--he sniffed a dead porcupine on the beach last fall and really yelped when he got quilled. (He is a bit of a wimp, so it doesn't take much to make him think he's mortally wounded!) Fortunately, since the porcupine was dead, the quill barbs were only in the outer layer of Hysson's skin and were easy to remove.

I was fortunate with my late dog, Pooch, a Yellow Lab cross, of the four times I heard him bark in his life, three times were at a bear. Ideal pack/bp dog.

I hike with two mutts always. I harness both to a single lead, and some days they help pull me up hills.

The rattlesnake training works! The outfit we used charge $90 a dog and used shock traning and "de-fanged" snakes (they claimed de-fanged).

My buddy's cattle dog caught on so quick, he stands back and sounds the alarm for tomato worms.

Interesting. That was the first I had heard of the vaccine and found this:
http://www.redrockbiologics.com/

I question how they account for the variety of venoms. Around here we have multiple rattler species that are reported to have different poison cocktails.

What we really need is a vaccine for Valley Fever!

I go where there are not usually many people when dog hiking. My dog


He does not travel far from me. usually he is just ahead and goes out to about 30 yards and then comes back, gets behind me and then waits for me allow him to pass. This is natural dog behavior - I have had coon dogs(not mine) follow me for days and they did the same thing. My other dogs did it also. I imagine they think we are a hunting 'team' and the one in front is on scent and needs some space. If he stops I will usually wait for him to sniff it out and start moving instead of walking past him. I think he expects me to be courteous as he is.
He is a quiet dog and does not bark in the woods. He does bark when someone or another dog passes our house. He has never been in the house and lives in the back yard with my older Golden (3rd retired). He will growl and bark when someone approaches us.
In camp he just plays, rests, swims, wants food. Wants more food. More food. He is not a begger and will not raid the food bags, but he will shove his way in to get some. He won't steal it. I have to give it to him - all natural behavior. He is a real pig out in the woods.
He does stuff at night, and the tarp is easy for him to get in and out of. He sleeps right next to me when not roving and sometimes I wake up and his muzzle is in my bag.
I let him enjoy his time. Only leashed when absolutely needed - roads, cliffs, ect....
I used to be a boater and would never leash him when river crossing, but have had to take the pack across and then go back and assist him. He will learn to handle moving water in due time. I do not leave the leash on him when not needed. He comes to me when I whistle, just like all my dogs have. We have a loving friendship. Not master and dog. He comes to me because he loves me, just like all my dogs have. They respond well to kindness and understanding. It works.
He was abused as a puppy and sometimes he shakes when touched, and it just breaks my heart.
I know he is a dog and dogs do things that people do not and I accept that. I do not try to turn him into a robot or get mad at him when he chews the guys lines off my tarp - although he has not done that in a while. He goes to the creek at night and comes back soaking and needs a hug, so I just burrow down in my bivy and he eventually quits poking at me. I use a bivy even though its not for weather, it sure is nice when he is wet. I use a floorless tarp so that it is fit for a dogs needs.
I do the cooking and dividing and he does the dishes. He rearranges wood in the fire sometimes. He is almost always in my face trying to see what I am doing. Dogs are certainly this mans best friend.

Another vote for obedience class! Before your dog can be expected to perform on the trail, it's important to put in some very consistant training time at home. Be a responsible dog owner. There are many different techniques and philosophies when it comes to dog training. Find one that you are comfortable with, and be consistant.

When it comes to bed time at night I usually whittle a long stick into a point and pound it into the ground with a rock up buy the tent vestibule or under my hammock when hammocking. I put my dogs leash on her and make her lay down exactly where I want her and put the other end of the leash around the stake. She's not allowed complete freedom.




[img]http://picasaweb.google.com/speyguy/EasternORRiverHike/photo#5171877191434570114[/img]

Not for me--I want my dog in the tent to keep me warm!

I love my dog. But I'm never too far from water and she gets in every chance she gets, then usually rolls in the dirt. There's no way I'm letting her in after that to plop down on my WM sleeping bag. It cost too much and she's spoiled enough already.
[img]http://picasaweb.google.com/speyguy/EasternORRiverHike/photo#5171880069062658722[/img]

When I first saw your Golden, I thought that he was my dog. Here is a picture, but in many ways he looks more similar than in the picture. Even the same color ID tag. Your dog has great dark features around the mouth and nose.

Estoy de acuerdo contigo.

Us Oregonians love our doggies. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That's a 300.00 sleeping bag....


And a 50.00 food bag...

I have to keep my dog on a leash because she likes to run. She sleeps in the tent.

I have always leaned toward the retreivers though many dogs will be good packing companions. I have leaned away from breeds that others commonly associate with dogs that let's just say instill fear in people. Right now I am in the process of retiring my Yellow lab that all dogs before her and after will be judges against. She is more human than most of my packing friends. I am bringing up a young Pudlepointer as we speak to fill the grouse hunting and packing companionship that I will be losing with my Lab. I have always trained my own animals- just remember they need to know boundaries and if you don't install that early you will regret it. Simple one word commands- don't confuse your buddy.

I'm a Lab guy. We are on our third Lab a 10 month old yellow female. Our last one was a black female that we finally had to have put down at 17 yrs. old. We weren't sure if we could love another or own one without comparison all the time. I found that I was missing something without a dog along. Our new dog went backpacking in the Sierra last fall at 4 months old and did great. She did get a little scared one night when the wind was howling and blowing our tent really bad. She just buried her head in the collar of my bag like an ostrich. I carry a three person tent for my wife and the dog. This year the dog is going to get her own pack. If you are going to have a dog on the trail, it needs to be well trained and in controll. An out of controll dog, even on a leash, is not acceptable. We started socializing our pup as soon as we got her. We took her walking around people right away (10 weeks). I have had really good sucess with an electronic collar. If used properly they work great and do not harm the dog. Our dogs have all been spayed females and that eliminates another problem. I have tried hiking with and without. With is best!

I am still working on keeping her from scaring the fish <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi my name is hootyhoo and I'm a dogaholic.

I go to places where there are few people and let my dog hike his own hike. Its his time, too. He likes to explore and I like to watch him do it. I control him when we are near a road or people. There are times that a leash is used, but he likes it less and less.
I use an oragami ul - no floor. I use a light ripstop bivy. This combo works well for us. He can come and go at night. There is no floor for him to muddy up. the bivy protects my bag from his wetness. He sleeps against me sometimes, outside of the shelter sometimes, in a corner of the shelter other times- and I am not sure why he sleeps in different places. He lives outside at home so he is used to the elements. I made him a sleeping bag that he gear tested rather brutally - it did not survive. I cut a pad in half for him, but he never lays on it.
I like golden retrievers. Spell check. Good in water. Thick coat for insulation and tick burrows (that is a drawback). Good disoposition. Accepted by most humans as a friendly dog. Not too big and not too small for outdoors. Athletic and agile.
He has food/water bowl that he carries along with his food. If we are on a dry trail or headed to a dry campsite then I put water in his pack and he carries that also.
I am not sure how to properly train dogs - but make decisions and stick to them. If you want to share human food then do it - if not then never do it. Things like that should be adhered to at all times in my opinion. Once they know you will there is no going back. In the morning I cook pancakes for two. I wait until all the pancakes are cooked before he or I eat any. That way he knows that we cook first then eat together. I have a friend that can hardly get his food cooked because his dog is in his face the whole time - he gives food to the dog while he is still cooking. My dog loves mac and cheese with tuna in it. Ramen noodles are another favorite (no seasoning). He has his dog food, but I like to share with him.

I love hiking with a dog. I am on my third Golden. But I love all breeds.