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#91204 - 02/24/08 09:43 AM Critique my clothing list?
SquareGlobe Offline
member

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Nebraska
This is what my husband and I plan on taking for our Wind River trip in August. What do you think? We plan to visit the northern part for 5 or 6 days and maybe go to the southern end for a few days too.I know we have a lot of jackets, but I keep hearing it can snow up there so I'm worried about getting cold. Do you think this is too much? Thanks for your help.

1 Patagonia silkweight top and bottoms
3 pr. Smartwool socks 3 pr underwear
1 S/S synthetic T-shirt
1 nylon travel shirt
1 nylon convertable pants
Marmot DriClime windshirt
OR Fraction pullover (primaloft sport)
550-fill down jacket for camp
fleece or wool hat
wool gloves
ball cap
bandanna
Marmot Precip rain jacket and pants
camp/water crossing shoes
hiking boots/shoes

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#91205 - 02/24/08 10:51 AM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
Do you think this is too much?


Ah, but what is too much? I don't know how far you'll be going every day. Or how much the rest of your pack weighs. Or how much of a priority you place on keeping warm versus pack weight. Or if you plan to have a "laundry day(s)". These are all factors. Your simple question is really not so simple and ultimately only you can answer it. Keep in mind that you posted your question on a lightweight hiking board so many answers may be biased that way.

So I'll just make general comments:

I think you're smart to plan for the worst e.g. snow.

The down jacket is a big, bulky and relatively heavy item. You will be in the Winds, but it will also be August. If and when it gets cold enough for a jacket like that you could just bail into your tent. Or put on ALL of your many other layers. Down jackets are lousy for hiking in. There's a whole thread about that here. Of course it can double as a pillow. Or maybe just a down vest would be enough?

Under any conditions, I don't think you need the Driclime and the Fraction. Seems redundant.

Don't know what your chances of rain/snow are but the Precip set is something I would only carry if heavy, constant rain is probable. For lighter and/or infrequent rain there are many lighter and less bulky options. Frogg Toggs or a poncho come to mind.

If hiking in the rain is a strong possibility, your gloves should be waterproof. Plain wool won't do.

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#91206 - 02/24/08 11:41 AM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3973
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Square Globe,
Hiya <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Silk longunderwear is about as useful in snow as a screen door on a submarine. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />Take something warmer.
And if you expect weather mostly above freezing with the possibility of some cold, leave the down jackets and carry fleece.

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> YMMV
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#91207 - 02/24/08 11:46 AM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
SquareGlobe Offline
member

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Nebraska
Thank you for your comments Trailrunner. I suppose this is a tough question to answer and only experience will tell us what we really need. We would like to cover about 8 to 10 miles a day. Maybe stop for a couple days at a nice lake. I was thinking that the down jackets might be overkill, but we can expect heavy afternoon thunderstorms so that's why we chose the rain pants and jacket. I'm hoping that our packs won't weigh over 35 lbs with food and water. We will do laundry if it's nice enough to dry our clothes out.

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#91208 - 02/24/08 12:32 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
only experience will tell us what we really need.


Bingo. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You're off on the right track.

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#91209 - 02/24/08 12:37 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: Trailrunner]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3973
Loc: Bend, Oregon
quote
_____________________________________
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------

only experience will tell us what we really need.


-------------------------------------------------------------------



Bingo. You're off on the right track.
_______________________________________


I sincerely hope that we as group can help you figure it out without all of the hardknocks it took us to learn. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Of course every teacher and parent wishes the same for their charges... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Best of luck
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#91210 - 02/24/08 01:14 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
SquareGlobe Offline
member

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Nebraska
Thanks guys. We want to do some practice shakedown hikes around home, but unfortunately the conditions on a summer hike in Nebraska are nothing like a hike in the Winds. It's so hot here, we could probaly get away with shorts, t-shirt, fleece blanket etc. Anyway, we'll probably end up lugging around more than we need and learning from the experience. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#91211 - 02/24/08 04:44 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Yes, Trailrunner, they'll need the rain gear! The Rockies at that altitude feature sometimes daily heavy thunderstorms with rain, hail, sleet, snow, high winds. And when it's raining, it will be cold--none of these warm Pacific Northwest drizzles.

SquareGlobe, here's what I'd leave out. First, the short sleeve shirt. UV rays at 10,000-11,000 feet are really fierce. I suggest you keep well-covered rather than depend on sunscreen. You'd need a thick, clownlike layer of sunscreen frequently re-applied to do any good. A hat that shades your ears and the side and back of your neck, but doesn't interfere with your pack, is a good idea, too. You can buy or sew a drape for a baseball cap that will shade your ears and neck. Here's an example. At the other end of the spectrum, I'd also forget the down jacket. Your rain jacket over the primaloft jacket and a base layer, plus hat and gloves, will be more than warm enough. I'm personally not a fan of wool--first, it makes me itch, second, it absorbs a lot of water, and third, it gets really heavy when wet. Your Mileage May Vary; there are lots of merino wool fans on this forum! As Jim suggests, a heavier base layer would be better--something midweight (Capilene 3 or REI MTS midweight). With breathable rain gear, you don't need the wind shirt--it won't be that warm if it's windy. Again, a wind shirt is a useful item for Pacific NW drizzles, but not for the Rockies where the weather is more extreme. Your rain jacket will double as wind protection--when you have to wear it, it will be cold enough that you won't sweat inside it.

This summer I'm going first to northern Colorado and then to the Wind Rivers in August (each trip for a week), and here's what I will take for clothing, based on years of experience at high altitudes:

Wear (assumes I'm starting out in fair weather):
Shirt, nylon, long sleeve, ventilated
Pants, nylon, long
Undies, breathable nylon (Ex-Officio)
Socks (Thorlo outer and polypro liners)
Boots (I'm a boot person due to ankle issues, but I get them as lightweight as I can find)
Sunday Afternoons Adventure hat--I just got this and it's exactly what I've always looked for in a sun hat for backpacking! It makes me look like a mushroom, but who cares.
Cheap cotton gloves with fingertips cut off for sun protection; they go into pack at the first hint of rain.

In pack:
Base layer, Patagonia Capilene 3 (for sleeping as well as base layer)
Socks, 1 set (I rinse out the liner socks every evening; they dry very rapidly even if it's wet)
Underpants, 1 (I can do the same as socks, but I usually just change half way through the trip)
Jacket, Montbell Thermawrap UL (lightweight synthetic insulated jacket)
Balaclava, polypro fleece
Gloves, polypro liners (absorb very little water, dry fast)
Rain mitts (Mountain Laurel Designs)--worn over gloves to keep hands dry and/or keep out cold wind. You could use plastic bags.
Rain jacket
Rain pants
Low gaiters (I may not take mine, but if you use shoes instead of boots they are great to keep rocks, etc. out of your shoes)
Mosquito head net (I hate putting repellent on my face)
Mesh shoes with rubber soles (SprintAquatics) for wading. Occasional camp shoe use, but I usually just loosen my boot laces.
Bandana--with my kitchen gear--its primary function is as a potholder.

If I didn't already have the Montbell jacket, I'd take a 200-weight fleece jacket. The Montbell is almost too warm. I won't wear it over a base layer unless it's actually freezing.

I never do laundry on the trail except for rinsing out socks and (if needed) undies. I don't like to use soap in the wilderness (pollution), and all that wringing is a lot of work. Spot-cleaning is normally the most that's required (it is important to remove food spills!). I will, however, visit a laundromat between the two one-week trips, and of course I'll have a complete change of non-hiking clothes hidden in my car!

Which reminds me, any non-hiking items that stay in your car while parked at the trailhead should be well-hidden (do this long before you get to the trailhead). Leave nothing of value in the car. Unfortunate fact of life everywhere.


Edited by OregonMouse (02/24/08 04:53 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#91212 - 02/24/08 10:13 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Your list looks about right to me. Lots of layering options, from sunny & warm to nobody-said-it-would-get-this-cold.

1 Patagonia silkweight top and bottoms.....I like a zip-T for the top part.
3 pr. Smartwool socks 3 pr underwear.......1 extra pair of underwear is likely enough.
1 S/S synthetic T-shirt
1 nylon travel shirt
1 nylon convertable pants.................I'd want heavier long pants, but I get cold easily.
Marmot DriClime windshirt................I have the jacket and have found it worth taking.
OR Fraction pullover (primaloft sport)
550-fill down jacket for camp.......I think you'll be glad you took it.
fleece or wool hat
wool gloves.................................................Windbloc-type fleece would be my choice.
ball cap...................................................Maybe consider a hat with a full brim.
bandanna
Marmot Precip rain jacket and pants
camp/water crossing shoes
hiking boots/shoes

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#91213 - 03/03/08 05:13 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee

I don't think that your clothes list is all that out of line at all. My grandfather told me when I was a little boy that you should never cut a board too short.. That stuck with me all of my life and I have managed to apply it to all facets of my life. It is much better to have a little too much than to simply not have enough. And that goes for every thing in life too! I think that more people should use this as a standard when backpacking. That way you may, some time take too much stuff, but a least you will never take too little...Hope this helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there!!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#91214 - 03/03/08 05:42 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: Trailrunner]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Last year I got one to three storms per day all except a few days the entire summer! Rain gear is absolutly necessary.

The down jacket is a luxury item - nice to have but like others say, you can always dive into your sleeping bag. You will not hike in a down jacket - too hot. If you do not take the down jacket, replace it with a lighter/more compact layer. I really like wool - Smartwool zip top. Wool breathes very well and is great to wear under rain jacket if you plan on walking in the rain.

The head net is good for back flies as well as mosquitoes and only weighs a few ounces - I would definitely take it. If you do not use it, so what.

I would add one or two bandanas - these also work well in first aid situations. Also think about one very light sponge - when you go in and out of a tent in the rain, water gets inside and a sponge is great to wipe up puddles. If you have never spent any time in a tent during an all day rain, I would make a point to go do it to test out your gear.

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#91215 - 03/03/08 05:43 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Having lived in Nebraska for a couple of years (a LONG time ago), I would say that March conditions (outside of an actual blizzard) would be perfect for testing your clothing. Windy with temps in the low to mid 30's will do fine, and so will frosty mornings. Don't just hike, but sit around as though you were sitting around camp. Your back yard (unless too sheltered) is a great place for a gear shakedown cruise. You could try breakfast in the back yard on a cold morning!

Where in the Winds are you planning to go, or are you still working on that? So many choices, so little time, unless, like Wandering Daisy, you can spend the whole summer there!


Edited by OregonMouse (03/03/08 05:53 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#91216 - 03/12/08 04:12 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: OregonMouse]
SquareGlobe Offline
member

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Nebraska
Thanks everyone for your advice. I suggested to my husband that we go for a hike sometime this month if possible at a nearby state park to test our gear. We have been thinking alot about the adverse weather possibilities and high altitude of the Winds and since we are new at this, We're considering going to Yellowstone instead to hike the Bechler River trail. The nights would be warmer and the trail easier, but the trade off would be the increased possibility of encountering a bear. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I ordered a book about bear encounters from Amazon so we'll hopefully be better prepared to deal with this. I would pick a hike where there are no bears but my mom lives in Wyoming and I want to visit her too.
The Winds are so beautiful and I would love to go there, but I wonder if Yellowstone might be a better idea this time around...
Anyway, I'll take your advice about testing the warmth of our clothing while it's still cold here and try to get out for some hikes too. Thanks!

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#91217 - 03/12/08 06:37 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
fos Offline
member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 538
If all those socks and underwear are carried "extras", I'd drop at least one pair of each. Second the advice above on the down jacket, not needed with the Fraction and the Driclime, provided you have a solidly-rated sleeping bag to crawl into. Or, drop the Fraction and the down jacket for a slightly warmer synthetic jacket that weighs less than the other two combined

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#91218 - 03/13/08 08:00 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Yellowstone or any other place in the Rockies can have (at times) equally inclement weather in the summer. I grew up in Laramie, WY and have seen snow there (7100 ft.) in July. Of course Yellowstone is at a slightly lower altitude than the Wind RIvers. It is also much less scenic, has stinky hot water and lots of bears that are not afraid of people. Personally, I would take the Wind Rivers over Yellowstone any time. Of course, as you can tell from my description, I don't particularly like Yellowstone! I used to go there every year, and after a few hours I always wanted to leave and go to the Tetons or some other more scenic locale.

Backpacking in national parks requires permits, which often have to be obtained months in advance. You can't go where you want and camp when you want. You have to adhere to a rigid schedule. If you get a blister or find a beautiful camp site and want to stop early, that's too bad--you have to camp where your permit says. For this reason alone I'd recommend staying outside of national parks where you can be far more flexible.

Wherever you go, I suggest you plan your trip on established trails in more popular areas. Going into isolated areas or off-trail is not something I would recommend to a beginner.

The main thing is that you should do lots of practicing before you leave home. Not only should you be doing lots of walking (preferably with a pack) and climbing lots of hills or stairs or a stair-stepper or inclined treadmill every day to get into shape, you should practice setting up your tent, cooking and sleeping out in your back yard multiple times in all kinds of weather, long before you leave home. You need to learn these skills before you get out on the trail, no matter where you go. As I mentioned earlier, the next month, before warm weather arrives, is an excellent time to test the limits of your gear. Not in a blizzard, but when it's at or below freezing and in wind and rain.

No matter where you go, plan your trip so that you visit your mom first. You should spend a few days before your hike to start getting accustomed to the altitude. You should also plan to take it easy the first few days of your hike.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#91219 - 03/13/08 08:27 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I'm not sure what all that stuff is. I would first ask if you can wear all of it at once for the most extreme conditions you might encounter. I would then ask if it provides the comfort and flexibility you want for the expected conditions and your hiking style. I am biased towards maintaining a high insulation to shell ratio, and to having ultralight and packable shell and skin layers that are normally in the pack so that the wool layers can be worn more continuously and breath well to stay dry and to keep me from overheating.

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#91220 - 03/14/08 11:48 AM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: OregonMouse]
SquareGlobe Offline
member

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Nebraska
Hi OregonMouse,
Yeah, we are having a tough time deciding between the Winds and Yellowstone. Personally, I would feel better hiking Yellowstone with at least one or two more people with all the bears around, but I wouldn't worry about my husband and I hiking alone in the Winds so much. We will be carrying pepper spray and I've read alot about keeping a clean camp and leave no trace. The waterfalls and hot spings are what got us thinking about Yellowstone, and the easier trail. We have a 3 day weekend coming up and we're going to try to get out for an overnite hike at a nearby state park to test our gear and clothing. I've been working out an hour a day four days a week since the beginning of the year and will continue to do so until the trip (lost 19lbs so far). I'm really looking forward to this wherever we decide to go!

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#91221 - 03/14/08 01:47 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
If bears are going to be an issue, you should have a bear canister. There are several threads here on canisters-which one to get, etc. Some places require them. They can be rented if you don't want to buy one.

Your profile says you are beginners, so as you probably know, there are other things to consider besides clothes. I suggest reading The Complete Walker or a similar book to familiarize yourself with the basics.

Just a few things that come to mind-

Be sure you know how to set up your tent-even in the dark, how to start your stove and repair it if necessary. Take a repair kit for the stove if the manufacturer offers one. Canister stoves are usually foolproof, but liquid stoves may clog up. I had to disassemble mine on my last trip to fix a problem with it. Mine came with a tool to do that-don't leave it at home if you have one.

Take spares or a small repair kit with tape, some extra line, etc. You don't need a lot of stuff, just a few essentials, plus a basic first aid kit. Make sure you have stuff for blisters-Second Skin, moleskin, Vaseline, band aids, etc. A heel blister can really ruin your trip.

Know how to navigate by map and compass. I know a lot of people rely on a GPS, but they can quit working, get dropped, etc. A compass has one moving part and no batteries. You can learn to use a map and compass online or from a book fairly easily.

If the weather gets bad, stop and set up your tent and wait it out. Don't set up right near a stream or river in case it floods. Being bored in your tent is way better than being out in a bad storm.


Edited by TomD (03/14/08 01:57 PM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#91222 - 03/14/08 02:51 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: TomD]
SquareGlobe Offline
member

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Nebraska
I appreciate your advice. As much as I look forward to this trip, I'd rather skip it than go out unprepared so I've been doing lots of reading; The Complete Walker, Backpackers Handbook, Outdoor Navigation with GPS that also covers map and compass, and I have Stephen Herrero's Bear Attacks book on the way (I love to read). We have all our gear now except for the boots but we still need to get out and test it. I know real life experience will be the best teacher, and I'm a little nervous about the possible scenarios that might come up like lightning, bears, getting hurt or sick, etc...but I don't want my fear to keep us from getting out there.
My husband isn't worried a bit, he just doesn't want it to rain the whole time! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#91223 - 03/14/08 03:47 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Sounds like you're thinking along the right lines. Wouldn't hurt to take a few daytrips with your intended load, especially in bad weather - to see how you fare with it before you head off to the winds or yellowstone.

P.S. click my profile, my typical gear list is there with clothing, that I wear for rockies more northerly
than your destination.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#91224 - 03/14/08 04:56 PM Re: Critique my clothing list? [Re: SquareGlobe]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
There's another thread that just showed up in this section called "Backpacking Guides." Look at that thread and read the post by Heber on how to acquire the needed backpacking skills before you go out on a long trip. It is excellent!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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