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#89728 - 02/13/08 01:32 PM I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ideas
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
I have worked out my shuttle/ride to Springer to start the BMT. I am going down 68 and will take two side trips to get to the trail and then cross it two times on my way. I want to place 4 caches to avoid hiking to town and also to eliviate two long sections between resupply. This is my plan.
It will be three weeks before I get to my last cache.
I have a friend at the local paint store who can give me 5 gallon buckets (refered to as 5) with lids - used, but clean.
I was thinking -- (this is usually where the problems start)
I was going to put my food supply in gallon bags
then put that in a kitchen trash bag (now it will be double bagged)
Then add a few moth balls to bottom of the 5
then line the 5 with a kitchen garbage bag
add the double bagged food
then put in the alcohol, clean socks ect..
close the liner bag/ (third) garbage bag, toss in a few more moth balls
then put the lid on the can, and wire it shut with tie wire
next, make my stop to hide the 5 in the woods, and maybe hang it
mark the spot with surveyors tape and GPS.
Two things to bear in mind -- I am cheap and I like overkill. I do not want animals, locals or other hikers to get my stash. I really want it to be there when I get there.
I know they have scent bags, but I aint buying.
Any suggestions or easier way to do this on the cheap- the biggest problem is that I will have a 5 to carry for a little while before finding a trash receptacle. I guess I could multi use and use it as a seat when I rest.

What about hanging it? Should I? I feel like I should, but that makes it more of a target for Billy Bobs to find it. It is amazing the places you will find a Billy Bob. And if Billy Bob sees a bucket hanging in a tree its either gonna get shot or cut down.


Right on.

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#89729 - 02/13/08 01:46 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ideas [Re: hootyhoo]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Hooty, find a log, roll it over dig under, roll back over, gps it. If you leave it out BB will get it; if you don't dig it down the bears or raccoons will find it.

No flagin tape just compass or gps IME

double zipbag is enough, use a regular grocery sack on the exterior to keep out the wet. Find a nylon bag that a gallon can fits in as once you bury them they get rust on them and that stains your gear IME.

Find a special looking bush or small tree shape and dig near it, makes em easier to find without a neon arrow pointing down to the hole <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#89730 - 02/13/08 01:49 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ideas [Re: hootyhoo]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
I would reconsider the mothballs. Bears are curious animals. Mothballs smell very strongly, and not like anything a bear has ever smelled before, which might actually attract the bear from a greater distance, just to investigate. I would concentrate on minimizing smell, not masking it with stronger smells.

BTW, I have cached for 3 weeks using a plastic five gallon paint bucket, w/ lid, on more than one occasion. No bears have disturbed one, yet. I cached in the near vicinity of roads each time, but always out of sight of humans. Usually with large rocks (15 to 20 lb.) piled over the cache. I used several layers of plastic bags, including putting the whole bucket inside a black plastic trash bag to make it less conspicuous.

Good luck.

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#89731 - 02/13/08 02:27 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ideas [Re: hootyhoo]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
I hear ya on the moth balls - that I am still considering - for more than one reason. But I figured if they were such a strong canine deterent that they would work on bears as well. I have heard that diesel fuel is used in the Artic to deter Polar Bears and from what I read it really works. That is the line of thinking I was aiming for. I guess I should relax and do my best - take it as it comes. If the stuff is gone when I get there I can figure something out.

It aint no mountain for a mountain man.

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#89732 - 02/13/08 02:56 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ideas [Re: hootyhoo]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
I have used new one and five gallon paint cans for caches. Be sure and carry the proper tool to open it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> They seal very well.

I would skip the moth balls.

I have used engineering tape to mark an "attack point" that starts a compass bearing to the cache.

I would not want to carry a 5 very far.

I have hidden the cache within 50' of roads, but in dense thickets and had no problem.

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#89733 - 02/14/08 11:29 AM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: hootyhoo]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Man, just reading about your "problem" makes me want to go. Make sure you post a trip report. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#89734 - 02/14/08 02:08 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: hootyhoo]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
On those few occasions where I have had to cache near roads; I have done what others recommend; taking a compass bearing and paced distance from a marked, roadside tree or rock. In addition, I have buried the cache, usually an odor-proof bag in one or more 1 gallon paint cans together with jugs of water, fairly deep, covered it with a 6" layer of soil and then buried a paper sack of garbage-y looking stuff on top of the cached supplies and soil.

The idea here is that anyone digging where you have buried your stuff will encounter a limp paper bag filled with dish-washered eggshells, coffee grounds and wet paper towels, wonder who would take the trouble to bury their garbage, and then go away. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The same theory applies to wildlife. On one occasion, I had a coyote dig down to the garbage, taste a bit of eggshell and then give up. If you worry about the odor of eggshells and coffee grounds attracting bears then use biodegradable stuff of no interest to them such as crumpled old newspapers, hunks of sheet rock trimmings, loose sawdust, cigarette butts and the like. If it looks like garbage most folks and/or critters will go no further.

The garbage bag routine is certainly no substitute for hiding your cache effectively but is a way of diverting the Bozo's that might possibly find it anyway.

The guy who taught me this trick would put a dead cat in a hole near where he buried his cache and let the "cat-hole" be fairly conspicuous. The signs of burial or the odor was intended to divert the curious or hungry from the better-concealed cache. To me this is a bit over-the-top but might be worth considering as an alternative if you have a supply of dead cats.

It also helps to have left a good digging stick somewhere near the cache when you placed it; digging bare handed is tough on the fingernails, especially in rocky soil. No need to ask me how I learned this!


Edited by Pika (02/14/08 02:15 PM)

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#89735 - 02/14/08 04:53 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: hootyhoo]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
If you don't care to bring a shovel with you on your hike (because your cache is buried), then maybe camouflage is an option.

I use a short length of 4" PVC water main pipe with caps. Put an end cap on the pipe, then put a 6" coupling fitting over the pipe (it should slide along the length of the pipe). Get a piece of string and tie or tape it onto the items you want to cache as you shove them in the pipe. This helps to get them out again. If you have empty space left, you obviously didn't pack some of your favorite treats (caramel popcorn, extra candy bars, bigger bag of GORP). Then put the other fitting on the open end and tamp the whole thing tight. It should be fairly water and airtight already, but if you want you can add a bit of wax to the ends before putting the caps on. The 6" coupling is there to let you take the caps off by sliding the coupling into the caps.

To remove animal temptation, spray the whole assembled pipe with chlorine bleach (won't damage the PVC and scavenges all the organics). If you keep these pipes short (2 feet or less) you can fit them in a pack easily so nobody is the wiser as you take them to the cache point. A 2-foot pipe has about 150 cubic inches of space inside. If you need more space, make more pipes.

You can get creative here and make the pipe look like a broken off sapling. Then you plant one end in a small hole and leave the rest above ground. I've wrapped one in cedar bark and then stuffed a 4" round sawed from a broken tree limb in each end. It looks just like a chunk broken off of a cedar limb, and I hid it next to a fallen cedar tree. Just don't hide it in an area where someone may collect firewood!

If the area is near agricultural land, you can actually just leave the pipe "au natural" and shove it into a ground squirrel hole in the side of a hill or leave it just lying on the ground. People will assume it's an irrigation pipe and leave it alone. It's also small enough that you can dig a shallow trench - if someone digs because the ground is disturbed and they find a pipe - they'll stop. I prefer just to find some bushes and place the pipe in them - after wrapping some camo fabric loosely around it. It really helps if you know what the intended cache area looks like. Then you tailor your camo to the area.

Of course, the bucket does work - I just was burned once when one got "muggled" - it had been opened, food gone except for two cans of beef stew, and the remaining stuff scattered around. I've never lost a pipe - it's just not something people see as a container, and since it tightly seals the contents, animals leave it alone too. I did misplace one once. When I hiked through, there was about 6" of snow on the ground and I couldn't identify the clump of bushes I hid it in (the days before GPS). I did find it 5 months later after all the winter snow melted. The contents were still perfect!

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#89736 - 02/14/08 05:08 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ideas [Re: hootyhoo]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
I'd pass on the mothballs. I'd be afraid my food would all come out tasting of mothball. Most plastic bags are permeable, including all regular consumer bags, and I don't believe any potential deterrent benefit is worth the risk of ruined grub.

Metal cans or plastic? If you can still find metal, I don't think any critters will have a chance of getting in.

Fun mental exercise! I kinda like the pipe section idea, although I'd go with 6 or 8-inch.

p.s. What's the BMT?

Quote:
I hear ya on the moth balls - that I am still considering - for more than one reason. But I figured if they were such a strong canine deterent that they would work on bears as well. I have heard that diesel fuel is used in the Artic to deter Polar Bears and from what I read it really works. That is the line of thinking I was aiming for. I guess I should relax and do my best - take it as it comes. If the stuff is gone when I get there I can figure something out.

It aint no mountain for a mountain man.
_________________________
--Rick

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#89737 - 02/14/08 07:56 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: Rick_D]
Tango61 Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 931
Loc: East Texas Piney Woods

BMT is the Benton MacKaye Trail. He was one of the founders of the Appalachian Trail.

www.bmta.org

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#89738 - 02/15/08 11:42 AM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: Tango61]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Is caching legal in the places you plan to do it? It's illegal in a lot of places out here!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#89739 - 02/15/08 04:23 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: OregonMouse]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
As I understand it, caching is generally banned within the boundaries of wilderness areas, with very few exceptions. On National Forest land, I believe it is legal, provided you are not destroying or much disturbing things, like digging deep pits, chopping down trees or brush, and basically making a mess of the natural setting.

I don't know about BLM land, but I would suspect it would be similar to NF regs. On private land, obviously the correct approach would be to seek the owner's permission.

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#89740 - 02/15/08 05:08 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: aimless]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
Do not fear aimless - there will be no trace, and no digging. I will pack out the entire cache. I am putting together a couple of buckets to do a 'test cache' in a Wilderness area. I will be setting the buckets out next week, and will be picking it up in two weeks (ish). One will be tightly sealed and the other not so....
I am going to look for a sandy area to hide them near - and hopefully there will be tracks to let me know who visited.

Don't preach it, live it, baby! Right on.

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#89741 - 02/15/08 05:27 PM Re: I have to make 4 caches and I need storage ide [Re: hootyhoo]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
If you need a good cover for caching and there is a lake nearby, take a fishing pole when you go hide your bucket. This is another reason I like PVC pipes - they fit in a backpack so there will be no questions, regardless of where you decide to hide your cache.

I'm of the opinion, "No Harm, No Foul". Yeah, it might be against the law. So is driving in excess of the speed limit. Use your good judgement and practice LNT - pick up your used caches after the trip and restore the area to its pre-existing condition.

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