Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance

Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#87526 - 07/19/08 08:20 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: NiytOwl]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
I got a SPOT for father's day. Love it. As long as you have a clear view of the sky, SPOT will get the message out. I set up to send text messages and email to my loved ones. They all like it. I just recently went on a solo trip where I ended up bushwhacking. I had the tracking mode enabled. When I got home I saw exactly where I was and I knew that if I had gotten into trouble the SAR folks would've found me very quickly - whether or not I was able to push the 911 button. My wife was watching my progress the whole time, even though she new nothing of the area.

It is true that canopy will block tracking and OK messages. I'm not sure about HELP. I'll have to check the manual again, but I believe that HELP and 911 messages will be sent whether or not SPOT is able to get a GPS fix - unlike Track and OK.

It is very easy on batteries. I'm waiting for it to use up the first set - hard for me to get used to the idea that 2 Lithium AA's can go that far.

The unit definitely works better if you mount it face up on the top of your pack - not hard to do.

I turn the unit off when switching from Track to OK - never had any problem with it that way. When sending an OK message the unit will blink both LEDs green if it got a GPS fix and sent a message - easy enough. I haven't tried the HELP feature yet - I'd have to turn off or warn the loved ones first so that they don't start calling.

I don't know if plunking down $100 bucks for the service will be the best deal long-term, but for this year it seems like a winner.

Top
#87527 - 08/09/08 09:54 AM SPOT doing very poorly on AT record attempt [Re: NiytOwl]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
Those who are following Karl Meltzer's record attempt for a supported AT thru-hike can only be underwhelmed by the performance of the SPOT satellite messenger system he has chosen.

Of the two his team has, both have been confirmed to work as of this post on his blog: "Ok. So see the little Karl icons off the trail time-stamped from last night? That's me. After I got the guys all lined out with dinner last night, I drove down the fire road about 7 miles to a clearing by a lake. I had both the SPOT units we have with me so that I could test them out. I turned them on and spent about 25 minutes out there, sending signals and trying to get in touch with someone on my cell phone who could tell me if they were working. They worked."

The reason for such an entry? It's 10-minute uplink has proven painfully unreliable, and many people have asked if the SPOTs are turned on or working properly. In the first days of his run, where he averaged 12 hours of movement per day, he is only showing up with 2 or 3 locations out of a potential of 70 or more. SPOT may have sponsored Karl, but it seems they are hurting their reputation more than helping it with this publicity.

While it is true that heavy foliage can prevent such transmissions, the only areas in which Karl is showing up is in places with NO cover at all, such as on Mt. Katahdin, the Kennebec River, and road crossings where he is meeting his team. Karl will face comparable tree cover the entire length of his attempt except in the above-timberline country of New Hampshire's White Mountains and the southern balds.

Only time will tell how Karl does, but it seems likely SPOT will NOT make a good showing.
_________________________
http://www.trailjournals.com/BearpawAT99/

Top
#87528 - 08/14/08 07:40 AM Re: SPOT doing very poorly on AT record attempt [Re: Bearpaw]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Quote:
Those who are following Karl Meltzer's record attempt for a supported AT thru-hike can only be underwhelmed by the performance of the SPOT satellite messenger system he has chosen.

Of the two his team has, both have been confirmed to work as of this post on his blog: "Ok. So see the little Karl icons off the trail time-stamped from last night? That's me. After I got the guys all lined out with dinner last night, I drove down the fire road about 7 miles to a clearing by a lake. I had both the SPOT units we have with me so that I could test them out. I turned them on and spent about 25 minutes out there, sending signals and trying to get in touch with someone on my cell phone who could tell me if they were working. They worked."

The reason for such an entry? It's 10-minute uplink has proven painfully unreliable, and many people have asked if the SPOTs are turned on or working properly. In the first days of his run, where he averaged 12 hours of movement per day, he is only showing up with 2 or 3 locations out of a potential of 70 or more. SPOT may have sponsored Karl, but it seems they are hurting their reputation more than helping it with this publicity.

While it is true that heavy foliage can prevent such transmissions, the only areas in which Karl is showing up is in places with NO cover at all, such as on Mt. Katahdin, the Kennebec River, and road crossings where he is meeting his team. Karl will face comparable tree cover the entire length of his attempt except in the above-timberline country of New Hampshire's White Mountains and the southern balds.

Only time will tell how Karl does, but it seems likely SPOT will NOT make a good showing.


And what would you know of Karl's whereabouts if he wasn't carry a SPOT?

Top
#87529 - 08/15/08 02:34 PM Re: SPOT doing very poorly on AT record attempt [Re: dla]
bmisf Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 629
Quote:
And what would you know of Karl's whereabouts if he wasn't carry a SPOT?


Since he has a support team and is being written about, a lot.

The point is that the SPOT can't be counted on to provide accurate ongoing tracking. We (several testers here and in Australia) confirmed the same thing in an article we did for backpackinglight earlier this year.

Great idea, very poor execution.

Top
#87530 - 08/17/08 12:39 AM Re: SPOT doing very poorly on AT record attempt [Re: bmisf]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Quote:
And what would you know of Karl's whereabouts if he wasn't carry a SPOT?


Since he has a support team and is being written about, a lot.

The point is that the SPOT can't be counted on to provide accurate ongoing tracking. We (several testers here and in Australia) confirmed the same thing in an article we did for backpackinglight earlier this year.

Great idea, very poor execution.
My biggest fear is that it will be relied on when someone is really in trouble. If it's not tracking properly, what about real emergencies?

The novelty will wear off just like all electronic gadgets (believe me, I have my fair share). This means eventually folks who own one of these will not be so excited to pay for and use the tracking feature (especially if it works only a fraction of the time). In my view the only real value of this type of device is in emergencies and from the reports I've read, I could never fully trust the Spot.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#87531 - 08/18/08 11:52 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
bulrush Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Michigan
Quote:

It is true that canopy will block tracking and OK messages. I'm not sure about HELP. I'll have to check the manual again, but I believe that HELP and 911 messages will be sent whether or not SPOT is able to get a GPS fix - unlike Track and OK.


With the GPS satellite system, you can receive your location data only. So the SPOT must use something else to transmit your position, and send a HELP call. If it uses the cellphone network, which uses microwaves, which are a higher powered signal, you will be ok if there is a cell tower you can reach. If no cell tower, you are SOL.

I'd be curious as to which networks the SPOT uses for which functions. Clearly it must use the received GPS signals to tell the device where you are, but how does it tell a central location where you are?

Top
#87532 - 08/18/08 11:26 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: bulrush]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Quote:

It is true that canopy will block tracking and OK messages. I'm not sure about HELP. I'll have to check the manual again, but I believe that HELP and 911 messages will be sent whether or not SPOT is able to get a GPS fix - unlike Track and OK.


With the GPS satellite system, you can receive your location data only. So the SPOT must use something else to transmit your position, and send a HELP call. If it uses the cellphone network, which uses microwaves, which are a higher powered signal, you will be ok if there is a cell tower you can reach. If no cell tower, you are SOL.

I'd be curious as to which networks the SPOT uses for which functions. Clearly it must use the received GPS signals to tell the device where you are, but how does it tell a central location where you are?
SPOT operates on the GPS network only for locating the person and through the commercially owned Globalstar Network for transmitting. The signal power is weak and is similar to the amount of power being received (0.6W). This isn't enough power to get the signal through tree canopies, keep it from bouncing off canyon walls, etc. All the things that plague GPSs in receiving a signal also plague the SPOT when receiving and sending.

The SPOT unit must get a GPS lock before it can tell anyone where the person is. It will send a signal through their satellite system that the person is in trouble, but no one will know where that person is. At least it will get the ball rolling...

The bottom line is that it is unreliable in emergency situations except when the conditions are near perfect for sending and receiving a GPS signal. We all know how reliable that is. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#87533 - 08/19/08 02:50 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: jasonlivy]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

It is true that canopy will block tracking and OK messages. I'm not sure about HELP. I'll have to check the manual again, but I believe that HELP and 911 messages will be sent whether or not SPOT is able to get a GPS fix - unlike Track and OK.


With the GPS satellite system, you can receive your location data only. So the SPOT must use something else to transmit your position, and send a HELP call. If it uses the cellphone network, which uses microwaves, which are a higher powered signal, you will be ok if there is a cell tower you can reach. If no cell tower, you are SOL.

I'd be curious as to which networks the SPOT uses for which functions. Clearly it must use the received GPS signals to tell the device where you are, but how does it tell a central location where you are?
SPOT operates on the GPS network only for locating the person and through the commercially owned Globalstar Network for transmitting. The signal power is weak and is similar to the amount of power being received (0.6W). This isn't enough power to get the signal through tree canopies, keep it from bouncing off canyon walls, etc. All the things that plague GPSs in receiving a signal also plague the SPOT when receiving and sending.

The SPOT unit must get a GPS lock before it can tell anyone where the person is. It will send a signal through their satellite system that the person is in trouble, but no one will know where that person is. At least it will get the ball rolling...

The bottom line is that it is unreliable in emergency situations except when the conditions are near perfect for sending and receiving a GPS signal. We all know how reliable that is. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


False.

SPOT does not require a GPS lock for HELP or 911 messages. And given that you were totally wrong about that, I find your assertion on transmit power suspect too.

Also, you consistantly misunderstand the usage model of SPOT, so pay attention this time. Unlike an EPLB, which is only activated during an emergency, SPOT is designed to be used continuously to communicate status and location. There is no pre-emergency communication capability with an EPLB. In a scenario where both the EPLB and SPOT are unable to get a signal out, a SPOT user will have left an electronic "trail" that SAR will start from. Therefore the SPOT system is vastly superior to an EPLB because of the abundance of location information BEFORE there is an emergency.

Top
#87534 - 08/20/08 06:48 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
wld_rthr_b_ridng Offline
member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 18
Loc: WV
Quote:
In a scenario where both the EPLB and SPOT are unable to get a signal out, a SPOT user will have left an electronic "trail" that SAR will start from.


This in theory is great but from my experience with the SPOT the tracking feature is VERY unreliable. I've always left exact trail head locations and intended itinerary behind before a trip and SPOT hasn't really added much to that at all. On our last trip we walked along a river the entire time which meant pretty thin canopy and yet the SPOT still failed miserably at tracking us. We didn't have any tracks marked and on several miles of trails that doesn't exactly speed up a rescue effort much more than leaving a plan with someone. I personally think its a poor excuse for a tracking system, luckily I haven't had to test the rescue feature!


Edited by wld_rthr_b_ridng (08/20/08 06:51 AM)

Top
#87535 - 08/20/08 08:08 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: wld_rthr_b_ridng]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Quote:
Quote:
In a scenario where both the EPLB and SPOT are unable to get a signal out, a SPOT user will have left an electronic "trail" that SAR will start from.


This in theory is great but from my experience with the SPOT the tracking feature is VERY unreliable. I've always left exact trail head locations and intended itinerary behind before a trip and SPOT hasn't really added much to that at all. On our last trip we walked along a river the entire time which meant pretty thin canopy and yet the SPOT still failed miserably at tracking us. We didn't have any tracks marked and on several miles of trails that doesn't exactly speed up a rescue effort much more than leaving a plan with someone. I personally think its a poor excuse for a tracking system, luckily I haven't had to test the rescue feature!


You are right. If you didn't mount it on top of your pack, and if you didn't find a clear view of the sky once in awhile, then the unit isn't going to do much for you. You would be better off drawing arrows in the dirt. But for those of us who understand and work within it's limitations, SPOT makes our families quite happy.

I'm not a dealer or distributor, and I gain nothing from Globalstar. I'm just a happy user of SPOT.

Top
#87536 - 08/21/08 03:51 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
Sounds like we have a bit of confusion here. Let's see if a little illustration can help.

SPOT does not require GPS to send a 911 or Help call, but without the GPS information it's just a message that the registered user of the device has activated that feature with no location information. This makes it almost useless to emergency personnel - where do you respond?

The second aspect of SPOT that seems to generate a lot of confusion is why it has such a hard time getting messages out through forest canopy or canyons/mountains. It all has to do with the behavior of microwaves and satellites.

For those who have gazed at the sky in the early pre-dawn or post-sunset hours watching satellites, the following is no revelation - satellites are rarely directly overhead. They rise from the horizon, arc across the sky, then drop back to the horizon as they orbit the planet. MOST of the time they are less than 45-degrees above the horizon. Now think about being in a forest - can you see the horizon? How many tree trunks do you think SPOTs microwave signal can make it through and still be strong enough for the satellite to receive? The answer is LESS THAN ONE. One 6-inch tree trunk will block that signal, as will a foot of rock, a mile of clouds - pretty much anything that exists in the line of sight between SPOT and a satellite.

So if the satellites are low on the horizon, SPOT is, well, spotty in it's tracking reports. A satellite has to be pretty much directly overhead with a fairly sparse canopy before enough signal can reach it. Since this happens (at best) only a few times every hour and SPOT has to be transmitting at the same time the satellite is overhead, maybe only one message gets out every 2-3 hours.

I hope that helps clear up these two issues. Now if you're happy with SPOT - if it brings your family peace of mind - great! But if you're relying on it for emergency help you may be gravely disappointed - pun intended. Give that "Ask for Help" button a few pushes while you're in the forest and see if it works - reliably. That will give you an idea of what your situation would be if you pushed the 911 button. Please do it before you have a real emergency.

IMO, relying on SPOT for emergencies is dangerous because it may result in you NOT doing other things, like leaving an itinerary, having check in points, or taking enough emergency supplies.

Top
#87537 - 08/21/08 09:42 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: NiytOwl]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
SPOT use geosynchronous satelites. There's no "waiting" for coverage, there is no "low on the horizon" stuff either. You are either in the coverage area or you aren't.

And as usual, you don't understand the SPOT usage model either. Since a SPOT user has been broadcasting location information often, (perhaps at every rest break or continually if they have TRACKing), when SAR gets the 911 call they'll start from the last broadcast coordinates.

I own a SPOT and I purchased tracking. If I can see a 30* slice of the sky, SPOT gets the message out, everytime. And track-mode is nice because SPOT is sending location messages every 10 minutes automatically.

Ask and I'll email you a kml file for Google Earth that logs my last backpacking trip. It was a perfect mix of canopy and open area. You can see where the track messages didn't get through.

Top
#87538 - 08/21/08 12:53 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
Quote:
SPOT use geosynchronous satelites. There's no "waiting" for coverage, there is no "low on the horizon" stuff either. You are either in the coverage area or you aren't.


I'll bet you the cost of a real PLB that SPOT does NOT use geosynchronous satellites.

Are we agreed that SPOT uses the Globalstar satellite network for service? If we are, then here it is right from Globalstar's website

Quote:
(Excerpt from site)

The Globalstar constellation consists of 40 Low Earth Orbiting (LEO) satellites, with an additional four satellites in orbit as spares.


SPOT does show you Globalstar's coverage map, but as any cell phone user can tell you, coverage maps and reality are two different things. What the map means is that under ideal conditions, this is the coverage area you can expect. Conditions are seldom ideal.

Now that this is settled, let's talk about the 911 feature again. If you don't buy the extra tracking feature or have it turned off, I stand by my previous assessment of SPOTs utility. Here's what the SPOT website has to say about it:

Quote:
Even if SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network it will still attempt to send a distress signal – without exact location – to the Emergency Response Center, which will still notify your contacts of the signal and continue to monitor the network for further messages.


The part in bold assumes that a message actually gets through, which from my and most other users' experience isn't going to happen if the GPS is unable to obtain a fix. Notice that no mention is made of trying to determine your position from previous fixes? I suppose if your contacts know you have tracking they'll look on the website for your last position, but it doesn't look like SPOT automatically does this.

As I said before - if SPOT works for you, great! But stop spreading misinformation about the system just because you bought one.

Top
#87539 - 08/21/08 06:40 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: NiytOwl]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Quote:
Quote:
SPOT use geosynchronous satelites. There's no "waiting" for coverage, there is no "low on the horizon" stuff either. You are either in the coverage area or you aren't.


I'll bet you the cost of a real PLB that SPOT does NOT use geosynchronous satellites.

Are we agreed that SPOT uses the Globalstar satellite network for service? If we are, then here it is right from Globalstar's website

Quote:
(Excerpt from site)

The Globalstar constellation consists of 40 Low Earth Orbiting (LEO) satellites, with an additional four satellites in orbit as spares.


SPOT does show you Globalstar's coverage map, but as any cell phone user can tell you, coverage maps and reality are two different things. What the map means is that under ideal conditions, this is the coverage area you can expect. Conditions are seldom ideal.

Now that this is settled, let's talk about the 911 feature again. If you don't buy the extra tracking feature or have it turned off, I stand by my previous assessment of SPOTs utility. Here's what the SPOT website has to say about it:

Quote:
Even if SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network it will still attempt to send a distress signal – without exact location – to the Emergency Response Center, which will still notify your contacts of the signal and continue to monitor the network for further messages.


The part in bold assumes that a message actually gets through, which from my and most other users' experience isn't going to happen if the GPS is unable to obtain a fix. Notice that no mention is made of trying to determine your position from previous fixes? I suppose if your contacts know you have tracking they'll look on the website for your last position, but it doesn't look like SPOT automatically does this.

As I said before - if SPOT works for you, great! But stop spreading misinformation about the system just because you bought one.


I sit corrected about the satelites - you are correct.

You are wrong about HELP and 911 - SPOT will transmit the message even though it can't get a GPS fix. Receiving a GPS signal and transmitting to Globalstar are two different activities.

And you are still totally wrong about the usage model. You keep thinking like a "use only in an emergency" EPLB. If that were SPOTs goal, they would crank the transmit power way up until it burned the canopy away for a clear view of the sky <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But their usage model is lots of communication. So if you turn SPOT off until an emergency - you screwed up.

I'm a happy SPOT user, one of many. You should stop spreading misinformation just because you don't want to buy one and don't understand how it is used.


Edited by dla (08/21/08 06:43 PM)

Top
#87540 - 08/21/08 11:55 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
Quote:
Even if SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network it will still attempt to send a distress signal


What part of the word "attempt" is not clear? I can "attempt" to shout from San Francisco to Los Angeles. I can "attempt" to jump to the moon. The truth of the matter is that if the signal path to the sky is so occluded that a GPS fix cannot be made, SPOT's "attempted" transmission to the satellites will not make it either.

You keep referring to the "usage model" for SPOT. The model as you describe it is obviously flawed if SPOT made the tracking service an option that you have to pay an extra annual fee for, then you have to reactivate the function every - I forgot how long each activation lasts? You can't tell me SPOT intended for tracking to be on all the time if they made it an option and then deactivate it when it's left on for a certain period.

Face it. SPOT was a great idea that suffers from a not-so-great implementation. Maybe in a few more years we'll get a unit that does what SPOT fails to deliver on. As SPOT says on it's site:

Quote:
The SPOT Messenger really represents the next-generation of satellite-based solutions for consumers. This product is just the first in what we expect to be a series of innovative SPOT satellite products for the everyday consumer.


I'm waiting for one of those products to be what SPOT should have been. Until then I will provide my brand of product feedback on every forum SPOT's development team might read.

Top
#87541 - 08/22/08 08:30 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: NiytOwl]
Fets Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Cleveland, OH
I know a lot of people want SPOT to work the way it is intended to. I also know from reading a lot of reviews & commentary that it doesn't work as advertised (qualified reviews such as national level magazine editors).

I guess it is a given that people who spend a lot of money on products like this will defend, and attempt to validate, their purchase feverishly. I myself eagerly look forward to the next generation of "spot" style location devices. The idea of keeping family informed that you are ok surely appeals to a huge number of hikers, but as with all of our gear we want it to be reliable so we can count on it if something does happen.

It is exciting to think of what Spot 2.0 will be like after all the feedback.

Top
#87542 - 08/22/08 10:18 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: Fets]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Quote:
I know a lot of people want SPOT to work the way it is intended to. I also know from reading a lot of reviews & commentary that it doesn't work as advertised (qualified reviews such as national level magazine editors).

I guess it is a given that people who spend a lot of money on products like this will defend, and attempt to validate, their purchase feverishly. I myself eagerly look forward to the next generation of "spot" style location devices. The idea of keeping family informed that you are ok surely appeals to a huge number of hikers, but as with all of our gear we want it to be reliable so we can count on it if something does happen.

It is exciting to think of what Spot 2.0 will be like after all the feedback.


But you don't own one, right? I do.

People who don't own one seem to be the naysayers - or people who haven't figured out how to use it.

I own it. I use it. It works.

Top
#87543 - 08/22/08 10:22 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
wld_rthr_b_ridng Offline
member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 18
Loc: WV
Quote:
People who don't own one seem to be the naysayers - or people who haven't figured out how to use it.

I own it. I use it. It works.


I own it...it know how to use it ....mount it on the top of my pack blah blah blah...bottom line is if you're in the woods, which I believe is where most people backpack....it doesn't work like it was intended to.

Top
#87544 - 08/22/08 10:41 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
bmisf Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 629
Quote:
People who don't own one seem to be the naysayers - or people who haven't figured out how to use it.

I own it. I use it. It works.


I was one of several testers for backpackinglight. We owned several, we used them extensively throughout the U.S. and Australia, and they did not reliably work.

In real-world testing, messages failed to get out a large percentage of the time. Keeping the unit oriented a specific way helped - but that orientation basically requires keeping the unit in your hand or strapping it to the top of a pack (or decking or thwart) - and even then, not all messages got through.

We also found the UI - that is, the buttons, labeling and LED signaling on the SPOT - potentially confusing (witness this week's story about the hiker accidentally pressing Help, then trying to recall the message, and the troubles SAR had getting information out of SPOT' shotline).

We did a report with extensive data and statistics to back it up - available to subscribers online - and our findings are consistent with those of many other professional organizations.

If it works for you and you're happy with it, enjoy. But don't belittle those who find SPOT a flawed implementation of what should be a really interesting new category - they're in the majority.

Top
#87545 - 08/22/08 12:19 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: bmisf]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Quote:
Quote:
People who don't own one seem to be the naysayers - or people who haven't figured out how to use it.

I own it. I use it. It works.


IIf it works for you and you're happy with it, enjoy. But don't belittle those who find SPOT a flawed implementation of what should be a really interesting new category - they're in the majority.


Uh, noooooo, the majority likes it. In the very small world you orbit SPOT may not be acceptable, but there is a much, much bigger world out there. Last time I checked, I can buy SPOT online and at all sporting retailers. If SPOT sucked, as you imply, it would disappear quickly.

I must possess an exceptional IQ and amazing sewing skills as I am able to use it successfully in my adventures so far. I must not fit the profile of your average subscriber.

And I should add that my family loves it too. If you don't have loved ones - somebody who cares where you are and how you are doing, then much of the value SPOT adds is diminished.

SPOT will likely follow the technology treadmill of consumer electronics. If you wait for a "better" version, you miss out on the bennefit NOW. When the "better" version comes out - I'll upgrade, just like I do with my cell phone. This isn't a one-time purchase of a peice of hardware, like an ice axe that will last 50yrs. This is a purchase of a piece of consumer electronics that gives you access to a type of communication. I certainly expect this to evolve, but I'm in now. You have to make up your own mind why you aren't in as well.

Top
#87546 - 08/22/08 08:23 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
bmisf Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 629
Quote:
I must possess an exceptional IQ and amazing sewing skills as I am able to use it successfully in my adventures so far. I must not fit the profile of your average subscriber.


Wow - you're an insulting guy. Over and over. That's really not necessary here, and not very becoming.

In any case, I see almost no positive reports on the SPOT, and lots of ones about problems. Just because something is selling well for the time being doesn't mean it's a good product, or that a majority are using it successfully.

Again, if you find it useful, that's wonderful - enjoy (see, no insults from this side). But I stand by the assertion that the majority don't.

SPOT did show a new model at the OR show that addresses some of the issues - we'll see how it performs when it makes it into the market.

Bottom line: the segment is an interesting one; a device that reliably communicates one's position, and which can be easily and reliably used in an emergency to request help, is a good thing. All the better if it proactively indicates that contact was made (which the current SPOT doesn't), and allows some customization of messaging. It's a sweet spot between a PLB and a Sat Phone, and definitely a market niche that will grow.

Top
#87547 - 08/22/08 11:28 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: bmisf]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Quote:
Quote:
I must possess an exceptional IQ and amazing sewing skills as I am able to use it successfully in my adventures so far. I must not fit the profile of your average subscriber.


Wow - you're an insulting guy. Over and over. That's really not necessary here, and not very becoming.

lol
Quote:

In any case, I see almost no positive reports on the SPOT, and lots of ones about problems. Just because something is selling well for the time being doesn't mean it's a good product, or that a majority are using it successfully.

Again, if you find it useful, that's wonderful - enjoy (see, no insults from this side). But I stand by the assertion that the majority don't.



Well if you make bogus assertions - guess what, you get challenged. Boo-hoo.

SPOT will only get better. When will you take advantage of this communication enhancement? I and many, many others are.

Top
#87548 - 08/23/08 01:37 PM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: dla]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
OK, Enough with the personal attacks on other members. This is not aimed at any one person, but all of you collectively.

This is a moderated forum, which means the site owner or moderators can delete posts, delete threads or lock them at the discretion of the site owner.

Members are entitled to their opinions of equipment, but personal attacks based solely on the fact that someone's experience with a particular piece of gear differs from yours will not be tolerated.

If you are unwilling to act like a grown-up and approach the evaluation of equipment in a reasoned manner, you are at the wrong place.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#87549 - 08/24/08 08:26 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: TomD]
Eric Offline
member

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 294
Loc: The State of Jefferson
Thanks Tom

Top
#87550 - 08/24/08 10:00 AM Re: SPOT - A New PLB Solution? [Re: TomD]
bmisf Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 629
Thanks, Tom!

Personally, I love facts and opinions being challenged - those discussions here result in learning for everyone. They just don't need to be sullied by derision or insults - a completely separate issue.

(And thanks to the forum software for that "ignore" button - a nice feature.)


Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Featured Photos
Spiderco Chaparral Pocketknife
David & Goliath
Also Testing
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 180 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Noodles, McCrary, DanyBacky, Rashy Willia, WanderBison
13240 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
Backpacking.net
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 

Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum