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#203743 - 11/23/19 12:40 PM Going Forward
JerrySC13 Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 28
Loc: Chapin, SC
I truly appreciate all of the comments in response to my stories about becoming a trail guide. I laid bare the mistakes I made knowing I might receive some pointed responses. The goal for me is to get better at something I truly love doing; leading people, young and not-so-young, on their first adventure into the wilderness.

As I mentioned in part one, I thought my background meant I was prepared for this. I quickly learned that I was not.

The responses I received from three forums have provided me with some great ideas, and things I should have been doing from the start, which I will implement.

One thing I did not mention in my stories is that by September I had already implemented some of the suggestions I have received. For example, meeting at my house and physically showing me they possess the gear required. On my last three trips I took smaller groups, and planned routes with cross trails that could get us back to our vehicles earlier if something went terribly wrong.

I should clarify that I do not take anyone below the age of sixteen on these trips. Mostly in the range of eighteen and older. I’ll let The Scouts and similar organizations take out the younger crowd.

So thanks everyone! I should have joined these forums years ago. Better late than never, as the saying goes.
_________________________

Please check out my website and blog: https://www.mountainblazers.com/

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#203744 - 11/23/19 02:59 PM Re: Going Forward [Re: JerrySC13]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
We're glad we could help. Keep asking questions - one thing we have is lots of answers.

One last story about the group trips I help lead. (That's important - remember I'm an assistant, and not the group leader. smile )

Last summer (2018) we were doing a beginner course; it was actually the one I described elsewhere, where I evacuated the overweight person with heat exhaustion. I mentioned I was walking "trail" (last in line), as I usually do. What I didn't mention is that, at the lunch stop, when I took my person out at the bailout point, neither I nor the group leader told the other assistant leader that she was now walking trail. (She had been walking near the center of the group; we were spread out about a quarter to half mile along the trail.)

Anyhow, when the main party joined me at the evening camp (where I had taken my participant), the group leader got a call on his cell phone: from one of the participants, who had been accidentally left behind at the lunch stop. (She had gone to use the outhouse, and no one noticed that there was a pack sitting on the picnic table when the group left. Remember, the other assistant didn't realize she was walking trail? Trail is always the one who checks to make sure everyone is there, and I would have caught the extra pack.)

The lone participant tried to navigate to catch up, but eventually turned back when she didn't know which trail to follow at an intersection. (Did I also mention that the only ones with maps were the 3 leaders?)

In the end, no long-term damage done: the group leader took the car from the evening camp and drove back to pick her up at the lunch stop, brought her back, and she enjoyed the rest of the weekend (of course, the leader refunded her class fee.)

Lessons learned:
1. If one of the leaders has to leave the trip, make sure the others know what roles they need to take on to cover.
2. At the beginning of each trip, assign each participant a "buddy"; the participant is responsible to make sure his or her buddy is with the group when it leaves a stopping place. (You may need to re-assign buddies during the trip if their hiking paces differ greatly.)
3. Give everyone a map (they're free at the park we use), and point out clearly our destination and what trail(s) we're following. (You can include some map-and-compass and trail navigation basics, too.) Update them on our location at each rest stop.

And we'd been doing this for a lot of years. Just goes to show that mistakes aren't only made by new leaders. smile

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#203748 - 11/23/19 07:03 PM Re: Going Forward [Re: Glenn Roberts]
JerrySC13 Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 28
Loc: Chapin, SC
Thanks for sharing!

I've copied your response into my lessons learned file. This is easily something I could see occurring to one of my groups next summer. I expect to have a large group at some point, so I will definitely remember this post from you.

The two assistants I am training are solid, but something like a miss-communication such as your experience could easily occur.

I also appreciate your response because I was beginning to doubt myself a bit from some responses on other forums. I had already moved beyond my doubt, but your post has helped. Thanks so much!
_________________________

Please check out my website and blog: https://www.mountainblazers.com/

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#203759 - 11/26/19 07:29 PM Re: Going Forward [Re: JerrySC13]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
OK, I will be the critic here.

First, if you are doing this as a "business" you have a ton of legalities to address, including having a commercial outfitter's license. Permits, liability, etc. Especially when taking out anyone under 18.

If you are doing as a "volunteer", you still have issues. When I lead trips for a climbing club, EVERYONE had to sign a release. We did not allow anyone under 18 due to the extra liability issues.

I also worked 7 years for the National Outdoor Leadership School. We felt that after students had been on a 30-day course, of intense on-hands teaching, only THEN were they truly ready to lead a group. I am not knocking your military experience, it is just that it is very DIFFERENT from taking out youth groups. There are tons of interpersonal issues, especially with kids, that military training does not address.

There are pretty strict regulations (does vary from state to state) that govern who can be called a "guide". You said nothing about how you addressed this.

If you lead trips for the Scouts, or some other established organization, you at are basically working under their umbrella. Doing it alone, puts you really "out there" legally if and when something goes really wrong.

Your heart is in the right place, but from the last few posts, I do not see that there is enough information on your qualifications to be qualify as a "guide". Perhaps you simply have not explained all this. It sounds, to me, like you are trail-and-error practicing guiding, which in my opinion, is very dangerous.

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#203760 - 11/26/19 09:01 PM Re: Going Forward [Re: wandering_daisy]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Daisy’s absolutely right about the liability issues. Since you hadn’t gotten into that part of it, and I always operate under someone else’s umbrella, I didn’t want to pretend to expertise on those aspects. If you don’t already address these issues, you need to.

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#203761 - 11/27/19 05:36 AM Re: Going Forward [Re: wandering_daisy]
JerrySC13 Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 28
Loc: Chapin, SC
I agree 100 percent with you and Glenn.

I've posted my experiences on three forums, and received similar, if not exact, comments. And I do want to thank you for your input. I don't mind the criticism at all. I consider it very constructive.

I've changed the wording on what I call myself. In the back of my mind I had a feeling that Trail Guide was inappropriate to my level of experience. That being the case, rewording my title does not absolve me of the responsibility for which I've taken on.

I believe what I'm doing can best be described as a Group Leader. I enjoy taking people out for their first trip. However, the reality is that what I'm doing is introductory backpacking. I'm not teaching people how to section hike the AT for 4 days, for example. I do hikes like that with my college buddy.

There is still liability on the legal side for what I'm doing. I should clarify that I'm not doing this as a business. If you go to my website (shameless plug here), then you might note it is more of an online resource, and a hiking club. It is a pitch to join my hiking club, and all are welcome; experienced and newbies.

I do plan to get an umbrella policy. My insurance company has been pitching that to me since before I started taking people out into the wilderness.

Joining all of these forums has been great. I've learned a lot. I love the wilderness and I love teaching people. I'm going to keep doing this, but with a better idea and with better direction in precisely what I'm qualified to do.

I am trying to monetize my website, which I think will be pretty obvious to you should you visit it. But I should also clarify that the main reason I created it is because I love creating stuff, and I love to write.

I hope this places you at ease a bit. I would also welcome more feedback, both about what I'm doing, and regarding my website. I have not had someone provide a critical eye on my website. If you were to do that, I would GREATLY appreciate it.

Thanks!

Jerry




Edited by JerrySC13 (11/27/19 05:38 AM)
_________________________

Please check out my website and blog: https://www.mountainblazers.com/

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