Here in the east, it's often hard to avoid camping near others. You're not in their laps, mind you, but you will be close enough to observe how they do things.

I'm seeing more and more chairs (like the Helinox and Alite chairs, with frames and nylon sling-seats.) I still occasionally take my Thermarest Trekker chair, and find myself surprised at the amount of comfort half a pound buys - and wondering why I don't bring it more often.

Anyone else re-thinking their chair decisions?

I'm too old not to have a chair. I have a Helinox Chair Zero when I want to travel light or an aluminum camp stool that's a bit heavier.

No chair for me, although I have a friend who carries one and seems to think it worthwhile. I carry a closed-cell foam sit pad, which I also put under my feet at night. On those occasions when I've used a CCF pad for sleeping, I've found it makes a good chair when combined with a handy rock.

I've been looking at the Nemo switchback CCF pad (for sleeping). It's similar to the z-rest pad, but thicker with about the same bulk when packed. I imagine it would make a good chair, too.

Butt on the ground and back against a tree. I can always find something to lean against.

My approach as well. However, I do avoid leaning against our local cactuses.

A real man would not worry about such minor matters.


I do avoid sitting on our local Prickly Pear however. That is the closest thing to local cactus.

A few other things to avoid sitting on or against:

In cattle country, what are euphemistically known as "cow pies."

Trees with lots of fresh pitch in their lower extremities. It is possible to remove it from clothing (saturate with cooking oil first and then use hot water and lots of strong detergent), but it's a lot of work!

In semi-desert country, ant hills at the base of the tree. The little critters resent having their passage blocked, and their bites are painful.

Look carefully before sitting!

East of the Mississippi, I'd add poison ivy and ant hills (especially the red variety.)

Not really rethinking, staying with what works for me. If I'm planning on spending any amount of time at camp, I bring a chair (Helinox Ground). Well worth the weight. If I'm probably hiking all day and spending little time at camp, I don't bother bringing a chair.

We take little closed cell foam pads for seats. Part of finding the perfect campsite is to make sure it has a few flat rocks to sit on...

Keep one in the trunk that I use at my kid's soccer games but do not tote on backpacks.

When I used a self-inflating T-rest I had a fabric chair conversion thing that was the cat's PJs--so nice to have after a long day.

You already are carrying half a chair- your backpack! Since I have a bony back, I line the part of the pack that hits my back with a blue foam pad. Slide the pad down for a seat, set the pack against a rock, and there you have a chair!

Never lean against trees - too many have pitch, often hidden. I prefer rocks. In a pinch I can use my trekking poles as support for the pack.

There's nothing quite like plonking a chair outside your tent, grabbing a *insert drink of choice* and watching the world go by, or sitting around a campfire with a group of friends, toasting some marshmallows. So unless you plan on sitting on the floor, camping chairs are absolutely essential.

Set up camp 11 miles from the trailhead with what you can carry on your back and you might revise your priorities ..

And if you're out here in the West during wildfire season (generally coincides with the backpacking season), you probably won't be building a camp fire, either, unless you're in an established campground with metal fireplaces. Maybe not even then, if it's dry enough!

There are plenty of folks who have no issue with 'sitting on the floor', of course. But I do like having a chair. Just got back from a trip in the Sierra, went over Sawmill Pass and wandered a bit. Had my Helinox Ground Chair with me, and was happy to have it. It's the only thing I can sit in/on for any length of time due to pain in my lower back, so while not 'absolutely essential', it does help me enjoy backpacking more.

I always bring a chair when I go camping. My latest purchase is the 7 lbs. ALPS Mountaineering Rendezvous Folding Camp Chair.

It is your trip but 7 pounds for a chair seems pretty heavy to me. Your chair weighs about two thirds of what my entire base-weight pack does. Mostly I just lean against a tree 🌲😀.

I agree with Pika; in my case your 7 lb. chair would add 58% to my pack's base weight (everything but food, water, fuel) and exceeds the combined weight of my sleeping bag, pad, and tent.

While getting up and down from/to the ground is getting more and more difficult as I approach my 84th birthday, adding 7 lbs. to my pack weight would make even a short trip impossible.

I was carrying a foldable campstool for a bit, but like others, gave it up due to weight considerations. Also, the campstool caused me to bend over often, causing additional back pain beyond the long hike.

I met with a father & son on a trip when I was out SOLO and they each had a lightweight REI foldable chair which allowed them to lean back and relax. I hid my jealously, but I was JEALOUS.

The lightweight foldable chairs I've found are a bit expensive. I've never owned any REI gear, and I assume those were probably pricey. But I think I might decide to save up and pull the trigger early in 2020.

a few years ago I bought an "Helix Ground" chair. at about 1lb, I considered it, the absolute max, I'd carry for such an luxury. it has been a mixed bag. ..on one hand it's so very nice to sit in the evening, watching the sun set while soaking in the last of it's warming rays. but there's a down side, I fall asleep and wake up in a good of deal of neck pain.....either my head slumps forward until my chin is resting almost on my chest...or falls back way too far. either direction- there's pain. I just started to address this. It's currently sitting on my office floor while I work out an "extention" off of the chair's frame to support my head ( thinking this should come in at 1-2 oz, using the same hiking poles that I already carry.

I have used just the ground or a closed cell foam pad. But, today I received the "Better Than a Rock" 12.6 oz stool. I plan to use it for backpacking as well as BP fishing adventures.

Update: I am returning this chair. It is well made but my arthritic body does land well when sitting down. I bought the 14" high version. Hindsight being 20/20, I might have been better with the 17" high version.

I agree that backpacking chairs are difficult to get in and out of. I like sitting in my Alite butterfly chair but it is real difficult to get in to and out of.

I recently purchased the Helinox Chair Zero. I can get up from this one without much trouble. I used it last week on an overnight trip. The height was right for me to cook with. Being able to lean back was so nice.

I see a few 'age related' posts and can totally identify with that. I have posted in MYOG inquiring about making inflatable - cushions, pillows - and chairs? Here in NZ there are usually some natural features that offer a seat or back support - but... the bony bits do ask for something in between.

Does anyone have any recommends on inflatable cushions or pillows?

As for carrying an actual chair - old knees insist everything is under 10kg - so... no chair.

Every year, I search for a chair that I'd be willing to bring and every year I give up. I know that sooner or later I'm going to need something with back support if I'm going to continue to enjoy lugging myself and my gear up a mountain.

I keep going back to just tossing a sit-pad into the pack because it's so light and multi-use. It's hard for me to justify spending the money on a fragile single-use frame, at this point. I want one, I just don't want one enough, yet. I'm sure I'll look again next year.

I am working on making a 'range' of inflatable cushions. Back support is good and I wonder if anyone has used an inflatable chair - along the lines of...

comes in at 260gm = 60 x 48 x 48cm

The guy from theultralighthiker (blog) has or has had several UL chair options, some of them DIY. If you have the time, a google search of his site is interesting.

Before I became more concerned about weight, I always used a Thermarest Trekker Chair. (They once made a few versions, including one which wrapped all the way around the pad - and weighed more than the pad.)

The one they have now is a nice design - you can let the top and bottom of the pad extend out beyond the pad, essentially giving you the ability to never have to dis-assemble the chair/pad combo.

Personally, I believe the chairs work better with the Prolite/Prolite Plus or other self-inflating pads than they do with inflatable air mattresses like the XTherm or Uberlite pads. The self-inflators seem a bit stiffer, which helps with chair stability.

Kind of miss my old chair kit - but it's too heavy and not rigid enough for the trips I do now.

I agree with Glenn; those chair kits worked better with self inflating pads than the current popular "self...inflate this pad!" I find the chair kits weigh about the same as the Helinox Zero, are less comfortable, and are more of a pain to put together and take apart (and... you have to do it every night to use your pad).

That is the nice thing about the current Thermarest Trekker chair: the ends are both open, so you don't have to fold the pad (and can let it extend through the "bottom" opening and support your legs, like a "lounger" version) - and it allows you to leave the kit on the chair full-time, so you don't have the setup/teardown every day.

I continue to be a big fan of the Helinox Ground chair. Yup, it's heavy. Don't care. It's very comfortable, and I find it more stable than other Helinox chairs with the four legs. I carry it on almost all my backpacking trips.

I used the Helinox Zero - once - on an overnight backpack. I found it comfortable, stable, easy to assemble and disassemble, and reasonably easy to get in and out of. It was just more weight than I was willing to carry. "Than I" is the critical part there: at about a pound and a quarter with the mat that keeps the legs from sinking into soft ground (i.e., everywhere I camp), it's not objectively heavy - just more than I wanted to carry. It's a good product, if you are OK with the weight. (Kind of like the Svea stove - a great product, IF you are OK with the weight. Strictly personal decision.)

I'm also experimenting with using my pack as a chair back. My Osprey Levity 45 (like the Exos it's a cousin to) is actually an external frame pack (yes: perimeter suspension with a tight backband, just like my 1980 Camp Trails Adjustable II. However, it uses arrow shafts instead of electric conduit, and a sleeve instead of grommets and clevis pins - huge improvements!) I used to use my external frame pack, propped up by my hiking staff, as a chair to lean against. I'm trying to figure out whether the Levity can take the weight applied "against the grain" (so to speak) without bending. (Electric conduit worked great!) My first trials found it to be a bit tippy; I'll let you know if I get it figured out. By the way, I can't claim credit for the idea: yep, Colin Fletcher, in the original Complete Walker (1968 or thereabouts.)

We,settled on the Helinox Ground chair years ago after using the Slinglight and Helinox Chair One for many years prior. The Helinox Ground chair is super stable, comfy and cozy, legs don’t sink much. It really turns a campsite into my living space.

For hiking we simply take closed cell foam pads and lean back on our packs against a rock or bank. When going ul we will take this setup on longer hauls when carrying lots of water. The Ground Chair is far more comfy though.

I gave in and bought an Exped chair kit. On sale. It completely covers my sleep mat, so I'm telling myself that it's multi-use: chair, pad protector and fitted sheet. It's right around a pound without the stuff sack. It felt really good, sitting on the living room floor. We'll see if I'm still willing to carry it when the time comes.

Well, I said the Helinox Zero was just more than I was willing to carry in my last post above, so I gave it to my niece. That was about six months ago. A couple of weeks ago, I went out for a couple of nights; the two fellows I was with both had Helinox chairs. I was still using my pack+pad=chair arrangement, which proved way too tippy and hard to set up - but the collapses and my rolling backward when it did provided a significant amount of evening entertainment it camp.

Anyhow, it definitively proved that rocks, logs and other improvisations are not compatible for a 71-year-old me. At lunch, on the drive home, I ordered another Helinox Zero chair, having decided that it has crossed the line from luxury to necessity.

This has been a conversation I've been following with interest from the start, two years ago. I've been leaning against my pack, which is leaned against a tree, and using a closed-cell foam sit pad that weighs about 1.5 oz. for at least a decade now. It's always been quite adequate, but decreasingly so. I think I'm ready to start experimenting with other approaches on day hikes, where it is easier to justify the weight.

Anyway, if anyone has further thoughts to share on this burning subject, I promise to read them with great interest.

The terrain here is pretty rugged and we are trying to keep the pack weight reasonable so still using a closed cell foam pad of less than an ounce. If the ground is sandy we can hollow out a bit and the pad is more comfortable especially if you have a good back rest. Here is our current setup taken this month. I did change my pack from the Flash 18 to the Cadillac of daypacks an Osprey Talon 22” took it for its first foray yesterday and it is sweet, a real hip belt and perfect fit. The Flash 18 is in this image.


So we look for good back rest boulders with good ground beneath. Inflatable sit pads are more comfy but they also weigh much more but I might take that option at times too. The Helinox ground chair is still the most sublime comfort there is.

There used to be a big debate between 2 legs or 4 legs that I thought was overblown. It was a great sales technique at REI to say, "this chair has 4 legs! That chair you need to use your two feet as two of the legs which some people don't like at the end of a long day." It was a persuasive argument but I found it specious. Whether your chair has two legs or four, both your feet will be resting on the ground. The two legs of the two-legged chair took most of the weight. I actually liked that the two-legged chair allowed you to rock a bit.

I think the Helinox Zero (4 legs) settled most of the debate because it is lighter than the Alight Butterfly (2 legs). I like to be able to rock but I don't like paying a weight penalty for it. Combine that with the better sales pitch of the four-legged chair, means most people who cary a chair seem to have settled on the Helinox Zero.

I'm still resisting grabbing a chair with legs because I need to cook on the ground and the insulation of my sleeping pad will keep me warmer in the evening. Besides, if an old guy awkwardly climbs up from the ground in the forest, and his family isn't there to comment, does he really make a groan?

I haven't taken my chair kit on a trip yet. Since it completely encloses the pad, I'm planning on trying it on a warm, low-risk overnight when I can replace the bug bivy with the chair kit since it provides very sturdy ground cover. I'll bring a head-net for the bugs. This might offset some of the weight and bulk, while significantly upgrading my seating experience.

I confirmed in my living room that I can crawl in and use it as a small emergency bivy, but that would put the pad outside and compress insulation inside. I'd have to use my rain kilt as ground sheet, which wouldn't be ideal. I'll have to try some stuff to see if I can mitigate.

I ended up taking the chair kit on a couple of trips last year and I wasn't completely sold on the utility vs hassle equation, but I'm betting that will change as my knees and back age.

While I was enjoying the added comfort, I worried that folding and sitting on the pad might overstress the fabric. Do you guys think chair kits might be asking for trouble? Is this going to shorten the life of the pad?

In all the years I used a chair kit, I never noticed any effect on my sleeping pad, and no creases developed in the pad. However, I never inflated it as fully as I do when I sleep on it - a little less stiffness in the pad makes the chair easier to fold into shape and more comfortable to sit on.

To chair or not to chair…always a conundrum. The standalone chairs can be super comfortable but added weight and bulk. Our fave is still the Helinox ground chairs but I’ve never used a chair kit with my pad. Lately we’ve just been taking Thermarest sit pads and lean back on our packs. There are plenty of good boulders in our wilderness.

I picked up the lightest REI chair (1 lb 1 oz in the stuff sack) last summer, but have only tested it out on day hikes so far. It's pretty good in terms of comfort, though a bit tippy and will sink in soft ground. At least now I have the option for backpacks. I expect I'll wait to inaugurate it on a trip where I create a base camp rather than one where I cover ground every day. As I continue to age I think I'll start doing base camp trips more often.

The sleeping pad chair kits seem to be disappearing with the self-inflating pads that are meant to go in them. They were not much lighter than the stand-alone chair they sell now (Helinox Zero).

I think the kits work fine for the heavier fabric sleeping pads but I would be worried about using them on the lightweight inflatable pad I own now.

It does seem like there are fewer chair kits than before. Whether it's because they were built for self-inflating pads or because air pads are getting more fragile, fold-out chairs with frames do seem to be more popular. I don't see why, though. The most popular ones only seem to get you 6" off the ground and they don't have much back support and no insulation.

Sitting on the ground to cook and reading under the tarp are my main use cases. I can't do that stuff in a chair that raises me off the ground, so a chair kit makes the most sense for me so I'm glad I grabbed one while they last.

Totally agree with basecamping and venturing out every day with very light packs, returning in the dusk to a luxurious camp for the night. Many trips we go into places with no water so the load is water we hump in is 24 lbs alone in my pack. The rewards of traveling this way are amazing at times. Coming back to a comfortable chair is sublime.