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#201926 - 10/14/18 03:49 PM Group hiking: a cautionary tale
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Hi, All:
I thought I’d share a recent experience I had as an assistant trip leader for a beginning backpacker group. To preface, there is no real “danger” involved here; we were in a local park that’s about 5 miles wide and 10 miles long, with inhabited houses all around. But, it’s a big woods, with about 8 miles of well-blazed loop trail, and perfect for taking folks out who have never backpacked. We use a frontcountry campsite, near the trail at the 6 mile point, because we can cache water there, it has outhouses, and we can leave a car there in case of an emergency. (We demonstrate water purification and catholes, but don’t make them do that until intermediate trips.)

We’ve done this twice a year for the last 6 or 8 years without incident - until a couple of weeks ago. It was a warm September Saturday, in the 80s, when we started. We had a planned stop about 3 miles in at a picnic area, for lunch with backcountry sanitation and LNT presentations planned. As usual, I was walking sweep; one of our participants was heavily overweight, but had started a walking regimen and was looking to backpacking as a way to increase that regimen. We knew the heat made it possible that she wouldn’t be able to hike the whole way. We also limited her load, putting her tent and sleeping bag in the car we would be putting at our campsite.

Sure enough, she struggled mightily and fell far behind, along with another woman who was feeling nauseous; we were half an hour late getting to the lunch spot. At that point, the trip leader asked me what I thought, and I recommended that one or both should not complete the hike (I didn’t want to risk heat exhaustion for either; I didn’t think the overweight hiker had the stamina to finish.) He agreed, as did the overweight hiker; the other hiker decided, after eating and drinking, that she could do the additional two hours to camp. So, I ate a granola bar and headed back to get my car - all went well, and I was back at the picnic area in about an hour, before they had finished and left.

That’s when things came off the tracks a bit. The main group set out, and the two of us headed toward the car. I saw a pack at the picnic table, but it didn’t register that I should stop the main group (it looked like the other assistant leader’s gear, and we all knew the trail like the back of our hand.) So, off we went to camp.

About an hour later, I got a call on my cell phone. (Yes, I hate them; I had mine on because the trip leader was using them as a means of communication among the leaders. I also hate fires, so he has me teach firebuilding - I believe he’s a closet sadist, but the real reason is he knows I’ll start by putting forth all the LNT, aesthetic, and laziness arguments agains fires.)

Anyhow, the call was from one of the participants. She was all alone at the picnic area. She had gone to fill her water bottle (without telling anyone), and when she got back, she saw the last two hikers disappearing through the wooden arch where the trail re-entered the woods. She tried to catch up, but got stumped at the fork in the trail a couple of hundred yards in, and returned to the picnic area to call me. Fortunately, it was an easy fix; I simply went back to pick her up and the trip went on.

Looking back, several things contributed to letting this happen. First, we were complacent because we’d never lost anyone before; we got a bit lax (see the takeaways below.) Second, when I dropped off the hike to go get my car, I was no longer walking sweep - and we didn’t tell the other assistant that she was now the sweep, so no one was checking to see if there was any gear or hiker not accounted for when they left. (It was a classic case of Everybody thought Somebody would do it, so Nobody did it.)

The rest of the trip was uneventful, and everyone had a good time (even the hiker who was temporarily misplaced; the leader did refund her payment, though.)

So, what are the things we should have done, but didn’t? These takeaways apply to any group hike, not just beginners:

1. Every member of the group should have his/her own map, and should know the hiking route and the destination. Each member should also know how to read a compass.
2. Everyone should be assigned a “buddy.” The rule is that you should always be able to see your buddy; if you can’t, let the leader know, get the group stopped, and find your buddy. (You may need to switch buddies if the hiking paces are too far out of sync, but this should be done at a rest stop, with everyone informed of the change.)
2a. If you’re sharing gear, your buddy could be the person with whom you’re sharing a tent or cooking gear, for simplicity.
3. Have a designated sweep; that person does not pass anyone else in the group. You can switch off who walks sweep, but again everyone should be informed.
4. The leader stops at any fork in the trail (or stream crossing with multiple unofficial paths that make it unclear where the actual trail is.) The leader does not go on until the entire group is together and headed the right direction. (If the leader heads the wrong direction, at least everyone is together.)
5. Each participant should be instructed to tell the group leader if (s)he has to leave the main group for any reason, even for a few minutes. (Courtesy of Mouse’s post below.)

We didn’t do numbers one or two, either of which would have really helped avoid this problem. We did number 3 - until I went back to get a car. And, the leader pretty much followed number 4 except he didn’t make a head count to be sure he had everyone (he always had on previous trips - like I said, we let our guard down a bit.)

Hope this helps all of you avoid this kind of thing.
Glenn


Edited by Glenn Roberts (10/14/18 05:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Add Mouse’s good advice

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#201927 - 10/14/18 05:16 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: Glenn Roberts]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Good reminders, Glenn! I'm glad there were no repercussions! It's good that you were in an area with cell phone coverage (not usually true out here).

Another thing; each participant should be instructed to tell the group leader if (s)he has to leave the main group for any reason, even for a few minutes.

We had a very recent tragedy here in the Mt. Hood area in which a pair of hikers split up about a mile before the end of the Timberline Trail because one of them had a sore knee and wanted to rest a while. His body was found some days later. He had taken a wrong turn and evidently was hypothermic. I suspect he may have already been a bit hypothermic when he left the rest stop because when he hit the criss-crossing trails in the ski area, he went up instead of down, and climbed a couple thousand feet. I'm sure the guy who went ahead will blame himself for the rest of his life, but, as a lesson for the rest of us, if your buddy is not feeling well, stay with him/her. If you have to leave to get help (not true in this case), make sure the ill person is well protected from the weather (since this was a backpacking trip, it would have been easy to set up his tent and get him into his sleeping bag). While normally the ski lodge (the goal) would have been clearly visible from the stopping place, I understand that the clouds had rolled in.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#201928 - 10/14/18 05:34 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Thanks, Mouse. The fundamental precaution we take with our beginner trips is to pick spots where we don’t reasonably expect there can be repercussions. We have three main locations we use; one is a larger MetroParks, and the other two are state parks. All are bounded by roads, and have an interior road system leading to picnic and camping areas. They’re also patrolled. It’s not a true backcountry experience, but for people who have never spent a night in the woods, it’s a good starting place. Then they can go on to intermediate trips, in USFS areas that are more remote and “wild.”

I’m going to copy your other tip into mine, just so they’ll all be in one place.

It’s fairly hard for things to go badly wrong in the Ohio-Indiana-Kentucky area where I hike; the wild areas aren’t that big, and the trails are well-established and regularly walked. However, we do seem to have a few fatalities every year (yes, alcohol and ridgetops are involved in most of them, and there is the occasional heart attack.) I guess the relative safety is one of the benefits (and penalties) of hiking close to home in the East.

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#201932 - 10/15/18 07:53 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Jim M Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 430
Loc: Kitsap Peninsula, WA
All good stuff to think about. The group I hike with does those things and in the course of the day relates all of those things to any new person to our group. Most of us have training in mountaineering and all of those points are taught (or should be) in basic mountaineering classes.

There are risks when you leave the so-called civilized world and go into the wild. The things you mention mitigate that risk.
_________________________
Jim M

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#201955 - 10/18/18 01:12 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: Jim M]
snapper Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 56
Loc: NY
Thanks for your thoughtful list. I work with a college outdoor program and we do everything on that list except #1. It's unfortunate but if we made it a requirement that every student who joined us could read a map and compass, we'd have very few people on our hikes. For that reason we keep very strict leader & sweep roles on our hikes. No one gets in front of the leader or behind the sweep. Like on the list, we stop at all stream crossings, intersections, etc. to be sure we have everyone before starting off again. While I hope I'm not pushing my luck, in almost 40 years of doing trips here, so far this has all worked out to everyone's benefit.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

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#201958 - 10/18/18 05:37 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: snapper]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
IMHO, one purpose of a group hike should be to teach skills to the newcomers, including use of map and compass. Such as a brief grouping around the leader and identifying features from the map. Sighting on peaks and using the map to identify them from the top of a hill or pass is still my favorite method of keeping these skills honed.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#201960 - 10/18/18 06:20 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
That’s the level I’d anticipate - a brief session explaining our route, using the map (there’s a copy posted on a bulletin board that we can gather around, and point it out); beyond that, knowing that the red end of the arrow goes in the doghouse and where to find the north indicator on the map about covers it - enough that they can figure out they need to be walking southerly from the map, then orient the compass to be sure they really are walking southerly. If we get the chance, we cover a little more on the trail, but most of the formal map and compass training occurs on intermediate trips.

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#201962 - 10/18/18 07:11 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: Glenn Roberts]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
The identification of mountain peaks via map and compass from the top of a pass or high ridge is, of course, not very feasible in Ohio!
lol
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#201963 - 10/18/18 07:26 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Especially when the highest point in a neighboring county is the landfill. smile

I failed to summit the highest point in Ohio. It’s near Bellefontaine; I drove out to it one night after work, and started hiking up the hill. After 100 yards (the end of the parking lot), I encountered a locked chain link fence and gate. Turns out the high point is on private property, a couple of hundred feet inside the fence, and the last one to leave the office each day locks the gate. One of these days, I suppose I’ll have to mount another expedition.

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#201966 - 10/19/18 02:05 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: Glenn Roberts]
snapper Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 56
Loc: NY
Just a follow up...I'm in total agreement that folks need to learn how to use a map & compass and we do share those skills while on a trip. We just don't require that they already know them to join us. To do so would be to have very few trips with even fewer students. Are kids don't arrive on campus with the outdoor skills many of us take for granted. Essentially 99% of our trips are beginner oriented because that is our audience. We operate, and teach skills where required, with the intent that eventually they will be able to travel in the backcountry without us.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

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#201967 - 10/19/18 05:11 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: snapper]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I probably wasn’t explicit enough: that’s the same position we take. Participants aren’t expected to know map and compass when they sign up. We introduce the two fundamentals (red in the shed, and knowing how to identify the route on the map) during the beginners trips, and go more in depth on topo maps, orienting map to terrain, walking a field bearing, etc.) on intermediate trips.

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#201996 - 10/23/18 12:26 AM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: Glenn Roberts]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
When I lead trips I was a dictator. I made the group ALWAYS stay together. If one person slowed down, we all slowed down. I never lost anyone. I usually limited trips to 6 participant.

Of course, when leading courses for NOLS, we had three instructors and 17 students. First week we hiked together, teaching skills along the way, not too intent on actually making miles. Then we split the students into 4-person groups and they had to go on their own. They had to submit a travel plan and one student was designated leader. They were strictly prohibited from splitting up. We instructors would stealth hike behind them, sneak through the trees and observe their actions, and get to camp before the groups. If every one were not accounted for, we then did a search and rescue.
Any group could only go as fast as the slowest member. If you wanted to go faster, you simply had to distribute the slow person's gear among the stronger hikers.

Even now, although I mostly go solo, if someone goes with me, we stick together. Why even go with someone if you are not going to stick together?

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#202003 - 10/23/18 04:36 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: wandering_daisy]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
...If every one were not accounted for, we then did a search and rescue...
I have to ask, how often did that happen?

Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
Why even go with someone if you are not going to stick together?
This makes so much sense to me. I've been a part of many "group" activities (mountain biking, skiing, etc.) where folks made no attempt to stay together. That has always baffled me.
_________________________
The journey is more important than the destination.

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#202010 - 10/24/18 01:40 AM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: 4evrplan]
JustWalking Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 293
Loc: PNW
"This makes so much sense to me. I've been a part of many "group" activities (mountain biking, skiing, etc.) where folks made no attempt to stay together. That has always baffled me."

I'm one of those folks who goes backpacking with some groups where we all often hike at our own pace during the day (so I end up, purposely, hiking alone for most of the day) and gather around the campfire (or just gather, if no campfire) for dinner and chatting and laughing at night (and sometimes at lunch). I really enjoy such trips - I get some solitude in the wilderness, which I enjoy tremendously, but still also get the camaraderie inherent in a good group at the end of the day, which I enjoy tremendously. Best of both worlds to me.

I should add that we're all experienced backpackers and trips are designed as described above.

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#202011 - 10/24/18 05:13 AM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: JustWalking]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2233
Loc: Napa, CA
My wife and I hike at different speeds. We hike within a couple hundred yards of each other....but not together. We reunite at each junction or stream crossing.

We like to hike alone, in silence. I can't really imagine hiking right next to someone who talks a lot...

Everyone has their own style.
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#202013 - 10/24/18 12:09 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: wandering_daisy]
GrumpyGord Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Michigan
In the 30+ years that I have been backpacking I have been with another person probably six times and that was usually hiking solo for most of the day and meeting for lunch or sleeping.

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#202015 - 10/24/18 12:25 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: GrumpyGord]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
So in groups that hike separately and camp together, WHO if anyone is responsible if someone does not show up? That loose organization is fine as long as everything goes OK. It also works better with a few people, but gets more difficult to control with larger groups.

I really hate the anxiety that is produced not knowing if or when the person I am with is going to show up. If someone goes with me, I feel extremely responsible for them. I would rather slow my pace than worry all day about someone.

On our NOLS courses, search and rescue is actually a part of the curriculum, so having a lost person is actually a "teachable moment". Evacuating an injured hiker is also taught. I worked about a dozen 35-day courses for NOLS, and I recall only two evacuations. We always found the lost or they eventually show up on their own. The way a commercial outdoor school is set up is really quite different from loosely organized volunteer hiking groups. For one thing, a group of 20, with three professionals, has the manpower to actually do a search and rescue. Of course, that was in the days before GPS or any other communication technology.

For a smaller volunteer group, it is better to just send out for professional search and rescue.


Edited by wandering_daisy (10/24/18 12:29 PM)

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#202020 - 10/24/18 05:41 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: wandering_daisy]
JustWalking Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 293
Loc: PNW
In the groups I go with, there is no 'responsible' person -- everyone is responsible for themselves, and that's made clear from the very beginning. Beginners are not taken on these hikes. The groups are generally small, rarely more than 8 people. Most of us carry cell phones, some of us carry inReach devices.

I guess you could call it 'backpacking solo with a group'. :-)

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#202021 - 10/24/18 06:52 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: JustWalking]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2233
Loc: Napa, CA
Actually, when I hike in larger groups we always assign a sweep who hikes last and knows the ropes. And we still always stop at every junction to regroup. The distance between leader and sweep is usually less than a couple hundred yards...so it's not a lot different than hiking with my wife...
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#202027 - 10/24/18 10:41 PM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: JustWalking]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
So there is no responsible person? How can you just ignore the fact that someone does not show up? You cannot assume the missing person will use In Reach for help. He may have fallen and hit his head and is unconscious. To me that is not a group at all.

When I lead a group, we by no means are right on top of each other. If we cannot see the person behind us, we stop and wait, but we can be relatively spread out.

I do a lot of off-trail travel, which is an entirely different thing. The advantage of staying in a group is to share the route-finding. The first person does the gross navigation, focusing on staying in line with the intended target; the second person is what we call the "smoother-outer" and he stays with sight, but far enough behind to find the best micro-route, detouring difficult obstacles, or if the leader zig zags, he shaves off the corners. Third person basically follows but can also add route refinement. The last is the "sweep" making sure nobody is left behind. When traveling in snow (early season), breaking trail is tough work, so everyone trades off. The group as a whole can actually go faster than a single person doing all the work.

I suppose this will become a lost art, as everyone simply looks down at their GPS and follows the arrow.

If you do not plan to stick together, be sure each person has sufficient gear and food to spend the night out. If one has the tent and one the poles, the tent is not going to do anyone any good.

The only time I actually travel alone and meet up to camp is when we both are TOTALLY independent in gear. Still is a problem if I get to my car and the other person does not and is riding with me. I do not do this very often.

Both having an In-Reach with the ability to communicate with each other would be a big help.

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#202029 - 10/25/18 02:08 AM Re: Group hiking: a cautionary tale [Re: wandering_daisy]
JustWalking Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 293
Loc: PNW
I never said we'd ignore the fact of someone not showing up to camp. We're all responsible for ourselves, that doesn't mean we don't care about anyone else. Jeez. Of course we'd go looking if someone didn't show up at camp within an hour of the last person to arrive. And yes, we hike far apart on occasion (far apart meaning up to half an hour). We generally all gather for lunch, so there's often a meeting up of sorts at the half-day point. And everybody isn't always simply by themselves, only those people who want to be, we all simply hike at our own pace -- sometimes that means together, sometimes not.

We also all agree that if any of us goes off into the woods for a potty break, that person leaves their pack on the side of the trail that they went into the woods on. And when we hike like this, we hike on established trails, no cross country/bushwhacking.

So it's not a group, I don't care what you call it. A bunch of individuals who hike alone but camp together. Whatever. It's what we enjoy.

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