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#200773 - 04/17/18 12:41 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
As I mentioned in another thread, we Pacific Northwesterners (and also those in California and the Rocky Mountain states) have to put up with severe restrictions during fire season, which is much of the summer and early fall. No wood, no alcohol, no esbit/hexamine. Stoves must have an on-off switch and, in a number of jurisdictions, be UL (Underwriters Laboratories) approved. In other words, it's either canister or the much heavier liquid gas or kerosene stove.

A lot of us need a warmer sleeping bag than you use; evidently our climatic conditions are more severe than yours. At higher altitudes here in the Pacific NW, and definitely in the Rockies, even summer nights can get below freezing. By late August, nights can get down into the low 20s F (such as -5C) in the NW and into the teens in the Rockies. By late September, temps here in the Cascades can get down to the mid-teens F (~ -9C). By that time, I'm wearing all the insulated clothing I own (with a vapor barrier under the insulated clothing) inside my WM Ultralite, sleeping on an Exped Downmat, and still feeling a bit chilly. For many of us, a good night's sleep is far more important than a few extra ounces of weight!

Of course the price of down has soared, and in the 13 years since I bought it, the price of my beloved WM Ultralite has increased 50%. However, I still think it's worth it. The draft collar feature alone has kept me warm on nights much colder than the bag's comfort rating.



Edited by OregonMouse (04/17/18 12:42 PM)
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#200774 - 04/17/18 01:36 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: OregonMouse]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
I agree the OM about sleeping bags. I think if you have a good sleeping bag that has worked well, in the location that you backpack, then stick with it. For me, the sleeping bag is my last line of defense agianst hypothermia. A little "more" than needed is OK. Those temperature ratings assume you are well fed and healthy. A few times I have been less than well fed or had some kind of bug. Being able to set up a good shelter, hop in a good sleeping bag and lay low until weather or illness passes is a good safety measure. Same as OM, I have NEVER regretted my over-done bag (5-degreeF rating).

I have said this before, but water can be heaviest item you carry. Simply reducing the need to carry as much water will save a lot, and it is not that expensive. Do you really need a water filter? Some really do; others can get by with chemical treatment tabs. When I carry a filter of any kind, I pump water at water encountered, and thus, carry little between. When I use purification tablets, I consider these as just a means to reduce the risk, not eliminate it. I carry 1 L water maximum, and drink raw water from sources if that turns out to be insufficient. Not advocating this, since I seem to have an iron stomach and never have gotten sick from this; others may not do as well. A little more consideration of water, how much you carry and how you purify it may be useful. Do you use a hydration bladder? How much does that weigh? Is taking a pack off to get a drink of water really that much of a chore? Do you really need bombproof water bottles rather than used bottled water bottles.

Food on longer trips can cumlatively add up to a lot of exta weight if you end up not eating it. 2 oz a day (a trail bar) on a 10 day trip adds up to 20 oz. You probably would have to pay several hundred dollars to reduce the weight of your sleeping bag to save this much - zero to simply evlauate if you really need that extra trail bar. Be especially careful of sugary drinks that add little nutritionally. I have totally given up on Gatoraid- instead use an electrolyte replacement packet.

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#200777 - 04/17/18 08:11 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: wandering_daisy]
Alf Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 53
Loc: London, UK.
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
I agree the OM about sleeping bags. I think if you have a good sleeping bag that has worked well, in the location that you backpack, then stick with it. For me, the sleeping bag is my last line of defense agianst hypothermia. A little "more" than needed is OK. Those temperature ratings assume you are well fed and healthy. A few times I have been less than well fed or had some kind of bug. Being able to set up a good shelter, hop in a good sleeping bag and lay low until weather or illness passes is a good safety measure. Same as OM, I have NEVER regretted my over-done bag (5-degreeF rating).

I have said this before, but water can be heaviest item you carry. Simply reducing the need to carry as much water will save a lot, and it is not that expensive. Do you really need a water filter? Some really do; others can get by with chemical treatment tabs. When I carry a filter of any kind, I pump water at water encountered, and thus, carry little between. When I use purification tablets, I consider these as just a means to reduce the risk, not eliminate it. I carry 1 L water maximum, and drink raw water from sources if that turns out to be insufficient. Not advocating this, since I seem to have an iron stomach and never have gotten sick from this; others may not do as well. A little more consideration of water, how much you carry and how you purify it may be useful. Do you use a hydration bladder? How much does that weigh? Is taking a pack off to get a drink of water really that much of a chore? Do you really need bombproof water bottles rather than used bottled water bottles.



I only discovered the Sawyer Mini water filter about a week ago. It is smaller and lighter than Bills old Sawyer Squeeze, yet it can still filter up to 100,000 gallons like the Squeeze. I only received it a couple of days ago so I haven't actually used it yet but I have seen several videos on how to use it on youtube. From what I have learnt from these videos is that whilst the Sawyer Mini will filter out virtually all harmful bacteria and protazoa, it won't remove toxic heavy metals, chemicals or improve the flavour of the water. Some have resorted to home brewing an inline activated charcoal filter, which deals with the latter issues. What I can't understand is why Sawyer themselves do not sell an optional activated charcoal filter for the mini??? I am sure it would sell like hotcakes if they did so they seriously missing a trick here. I have ended up buying several adapters that Sawyer sell and I am hoping they will help me make my own ACF when they arrive.

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#200778 - 04/17/18 09:34 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Toxic heavy metals is not a usual problem for backpackers in the USA. Sawyer is a pretty simple low-cost system so the manufacturer may not be interested in after-filters. You would have to contact them and ask why.

Improving the "taste" of water is pretty subjective. I never have had the need. The Sawyer squeeze will filter the organics which often give the water a bad taste. It will not change the pH or take out metals. Snowmelt water can taste funny and flat.

I liked my Sawyer Squeeze but the washer on the screw cap fell out and went missing. It was only $25 and I got two years use from it. If I buy another I will try the mini.

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#200779 - 04/17/18 09:52 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3183
Loc: Portland, OR
What I can't understand is why Sawyer themselves do not sell an optional activated charcoal filter for the mini???

I can't tell you for certain, but my guess would be that if Sawyer made any claims whatever about removing toxic heavy metals from contaminated water, they'd be open to liability for those claims, and that's not something they'd wish to embrace. If the only claim was that it made water "taste better", this is so subjective I'm not sure how persuasive it would be.

However, if you have an entrepreneurial spirit, you could pursue your idea and test your conviction about how lucrative the market would be.

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#200781 - 04/17/18 11:24 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
Bill Kennedy Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/18
Posts: 294
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Well, you're certainly right that the WM bags are expensive, and maybe too expensive. If I hadn't had a simultaneous attack of gear lust and a tax refund, I wouldn't have them. Still, the combination of lightness and warmth, not to mention superb customer service (they repaired my Ultralite for free, even though the damage was my fault) is hard to find cheap. The venerable old North Face Blue Kazoo is $289 and a half pound heavier.

I've never tried the Esbit stoves, being mostly put off by stories of bad smell and deposits on pots. I can certainly see advantages to them. Might run afoul of regulations in some places.
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#200782 - 04/17/18 11:36 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
Bill Kennedy Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/18
Posts: 294
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Assuming I'm the "Bill" you're referring to, my old filter is a PUR (now Katahdin) hiker weighing 12oz. It has numerous advantages...it includes a carbon filter to remove bad-tasting stuff, both coarse and fine pre-screens, and the ability to collect water from difficult-to-reach places. Heavy, though. I recently bought the Sawyer mini and a CNOC Vecto water bag to use with it. The Sawyer Squeeze reportedly has a greater flow rate, and is still very light.

I this on YouTube, about the HydroBlu Versa Flow filter. Maybe better than the Mini...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnjYKXn1nFo

Just as cheap and light. Not sure about availability in the UK.
_________________________
Always remember that you are absolutely unique, just like everybody else. -Margaret Mead

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#200783 - 04/18/18 04:57 AM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Bill Kennedy]
Alf Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 53
Loc: London, UK.
Originally Posted By Bill Kennedy
Assuming I'm the "Bill" you're referring to, my old filter is a PUR (now Katahdin) hiker weighing 12oz. It has numerous advantages...it includes a carbon filter to remove bad-tasting stuff, both coarse and fine pre-screens, and the ability to collect water from difficult-to-reach places. Heavy, though. I recently bought the Sawyer mini and a CNOC Vecto water bag to use with it. The Sawyer Squeeze reportedly has a greater flow rate, and is still very light.

I this on YouTube, about the HydroBlu Versa Flow filter. Maybe better than the Mini...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnjYKXn1nFo

Just as cheap and light. Not sure about availability in the UK.


The HydraBlu Versa Flow looks virtually identical to the Sawyer Mini, just made with white plastic ends instead of black, and with a different brand name and info printed on the label, so I would guess that is it simply a cheap Chinese knock off copy of the Mini, perhaps even coming out of the same factory. The Chinese copy stuff all the time, even if it is illegal for them to do, as they simply ignore patents on things. Interestingly, I weighed my Sawyer Mini and it weighs 1.3oz...0.1oz lighter than the Versa flow, so I will stick with my Sawyer. Here is an interesting video showing an Activated Charcoal Filter hack for both the Sawyer Mini and the Squeeze. He has a second video showing how to make your own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZizSOi7wmg
The problem with his hack, whilst quite cleverly though out, is that it involves PVC tubing, and Expoxy adhesive, which are both potentially toxic (that is why they don't use PVC in domestic water supply tubing, and why it's only used to carry waste water), and PVC can also give water a nasty "plasticy" taste too. Domestic water supply tubing is usually non toxic MDPE (Medium Density Polyethylene). This is why I am waiting for my Sawyer adapters to arrive before I attempt to make my own ACF, and I plan to use non toxic plastics instead.


Edited by Alf (04/18/18 05:05 AM)

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#200789 - 04/18/18 11:26 AM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 884
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Brita makes a charcoal filter that's widely available, at least here in the States. They claim it improves flavor. I don't know how effective it is at removing heavy metals, but you'd probably be able to find more detailed information on them online. The filters fit down inside a water bottle, which can be either their own special made bottle (heavy) or just a reused disposable water bottle with a pop-top cap/spout. The cap holds the charcoal filter in place and creates a tight seal when you screw it on.

I'm not lucky enough to be one of the majority that enjoy clean chemical free water on my local trails. The areas most accessible to me have a history of mining and ranching, so heavy metals and other pollutants are a potential concern unless I take a road trip. The best practice around here is to cache your water (easy to do since the trails are crisscrossed with county and forest roads).

ETA: A quick note about the Sawyer Mini. They clog really fast, sometimes after (or during) a single bottle/bag of water being filtered, depending on the quality of the water you're filtering. That's not that big of a deal, because they can be back-flushed pretty easily in the field. I found it to be a big hassle though, when I was using the included syringe. I discovered (saw it on Youtube) you can use one of those Smartwater flip-top spouts on the top of your clean water bottle to back-flush, and now I don't mind so much. I just give it a quick squirt every time I filter whether it really needs it or not.

EDIT: It turns out Brita ONLY claims the bottle filters with remove chlorine and particulates, not heavy metals. https://www.brita.com/why-brita/what-we-filter/


Edited by 4evrplan (04/18/18 11:47 AM)
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#200790 - 04/18/18 11:27 AM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1102
Loc: Madison, AL
I agree that activated carbon (ac) is underutilized in the backpacking community. I think the problems are as pointed out above, the effectivity of ac cannot be guaranteed because it wears out as you use it. They don't mind for the refrigerator pitchers because you are treating treated water. They don't want to say it will remove heavy metals if you could potentially be drinking water with dangerous amounts of heavy metals.

I also think filter companies are trying to get high flow rates in a extremely light package. Additional filter steps detracts from both of those attributes. It would be very hard for a gravity filter to get a high enough flow rate and put it through a small carbon filter.

I disagree with WD that typical US backpackers wouldn't see benefits from ac. On the east coast and Midwest most open water is brown, leaf and cedar detritus, tea. It has a flavor that is definitely improved by ac. In the mountains in the west the water is typically great tasting snow melt, but the mountains have seen a lot of mining activity over the years. Heavy metals are mostly not at serious levels but they are there and long term exposure is not great for you.

As a solution, Camelback makes an inline ac filter. I have one one a bottle, but I can't seem to find them anymore. It looks like they still sell the inline attachment:

https://www.amazon.com/Camelbak-Unisex-Fresh-Reservoir-Filter/dp/B00554YH0A

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#200792 - 04/18/18 02:45 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: BZH]
JustWalking Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 267
Loc: PNW
The Lifestraw Flex Lifestraw Flex is a filter for backcountry use that removes lead and heavy metals. Flow rate isn't great, probably about the same as a Sawyer, and the one I have seems to clog kinda easily (they do include a syringe for backflushing). Like the BeFree it isn't rated for as many gallons as the Sawyer (4000L or 1000 gallons per their site), but it is lightweight and can fit on water bottles and such.

http://www.lifestraw.com/products/lifestraw-flex/

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#200799 - 04/19/18 07:40 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
Alf Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 53
Loc: London, UK.
Originally Posted By Alf
The rectangular Esbit tablets perfectly match the shape of the tablet holder on the stove but I found they are not that cheap, so I opted for some cheaper ones made by Strider instead...The Strider ones do not crumble so easily or smell like fish, as the Esbit ones apparently do (according to reviews I have read). And being circular rather than rectangular they are easier to store...One reviewer said they could fit 9 of them in an empty, airtight Berocca tube. 24 tablets weigh less than a small gas canister, so it will help to reduce the volume and pack weight of my cooking kit as well.
Apparently 2 tablets can boil 500ml of water in about 7 minutes, so its not very fast, but I'm hoping the gentler heat should help to reduce the usual problem of hotspots when trying to cook food in Titanium pots with powerful stoves like the BRS, and if it does, then that is a big problem solved. The Esbit stove cost me £13.80 ($19.75)on ebay and 48 Strider tablets cost me £7.36 ($10.53), both with free postage. I noticed that the Esbit tablets are cheaper on your side of the pond so you can probably find better deals on both over there.


Hi Bill, just wanted to update you on the Esbit Ti stove...It came today along with the fuel tablets...The brand name of the tablets is actually Strider, not Striker as I stated before. I have just tested the stove outside using one Strider tablet, my larger 1 litre Ti pot filled with 350ml of water (1 cup), with no lid, and I put the Docooler Ti heat shield around it. Then I lit the tablet, put the pot on top and set my stopwatch going...The water got pretty hot, hot enough for coffee or hot chocolate, and there was steam coming off, but it didn't get anywhere near to boiling...The Tablet burnt for about 12 minutes 17 seconds...Longer than I had imagined it would as it is smaller than an 14 gram Esbit tablet, and they are also supposed to burn for 12 minutes. Looks like I will probably have to use two together to get it to boil. Oh, and noticed no fishy smells at all when it was burning, so the reviews were right.

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#200809 - 04/19/18 11:08 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Alf]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
You need to start the test with the temperature water you typically use backacking. It is amazing how much difference it makes. To save fuel I fill and solar heat a 2L platypus as soon as I get into camp. A few hours of sunshine will really heat it up, especially if you put a black stuff sack behind it. Heating breakfast water, cold from the night, takes almost twice as long. I have never had enough nerve to take the platypus inside my sleeping bag to keep the water warm for AM coffee.

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#200811 - 04/20/18 06:06 AM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: wandering_daisy]
Alf Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 53
Loc: London, UK.
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
You need to start the test with the temperature water you typically use backacking. It is amazing how much difference it makes. To save fuel I fill and solar heat a 2L platypus as soon as I get into camp. A few hours of sunshine will really heat it up, especially if you put a black stuff sack behind it. Heating breakfast water, cold from the night, takes almost twice as long. I have never had enough nerve to take the platypus inside my sleeping bag to keep the water warm for AM coffee.


Not sure if a Platypus would be right for the job, but I saw one youtube video where someone filled their Nalgene bottle with hot (but not boiling) water and put it in the bottom of their sleeping bag at night to keep their feet warm...Apparently it works very well. Not sure how warm it would be in the morning though.

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#200814 - 04/21/18 09:25 AM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: wandering_daisy]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2087
Loc: Napa, CA
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
You need to start the test with the temperature water you typically use backacking. It is amazing how much difference it makes. To save fuel I fill and solar heat a 2L platypus as soon as I get into camp. A few hours of sunshine will really heat it up, especially if you put a black stuff sack behind it. Heating breakfast water, cold from the night, takes almost twice as long. I have never had enough nerve to take the platypus inside my sleeping bag to keep the water warm for AM coffee.


We do the same thing, but put the Platypus bottle inside a black nylon stuff bag. In direct sunlight, it's amazing how hot the water can get---and how much fuel you save.
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#200825 - 04/22/18 07:55 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Bill Kennedy]
Jim M Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 366
Loc: Kitsap Peninsula, WA
It was fun to look at your list and compare. A lot of it is personal opinion: how much will I carry for the sake of convenience or comfort?
I used to carry much more when I was young. I'm down to about a base weight of 17 pounds now.

Big three;
I use an REI 9x9 tarp that weighs 24 ounces and love it. I had a tent much like yours and sold it on E-bay to a very happy younger person.
I also have a 2 pound tarp tent made by Mountain Hardware that I like, but for summer the Tarp is nicer because I have the views, more room, and it is lighter.

My sleep bag is 32 ounces (27degree bag) you are better than me there.
You pack is about the same as my Flash 50, a bit lighter in fact.

You could probably get by with a lighter cook pot. I think I have a few that weigh 3.5 oz with an aluminum foil lid.

I happily live in an area where we can freely drink the water without danger, and have for many years without incident. Gland I don't have to carry a water filter. When traveling out of state I share the wt. of the water filter with several other people.

Clothing is personal, looks well thought out to me.
I would never carry a tripod. Can't you just increase your shutter speed or set the camera on a log or something?

Unless birding I don't take my best (heavy) binoculars. My cheaper 8x21 binoculers weigh 8.4 w/o case.

oh, almost forgot. I use an esbit homemade stove nowadays and the windscreen/pot holder only weighs an ounce or so. I completely understand taking a canister stove and did for many years and still use my MSR Windpro in winter or at high altitudes, but usually split the weight with a friend, as we did last week.


Edited by Jim M (04/22/18 07:58 PM)
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#200830 - 04/23/18 04:13 AM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Jim M]
Bill Kennedy Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/18
Posts: 294
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I can get it down to around 20lbs. without much trouble. I don't necessarily take everything on that list, like the daypack, sandals, and 3rd pair of socks. Also, the list was generated from an old spreadsheet and some of the weights aren't correct for my current gear. For instance, the rain pants I have now weigh half as much (homemade) and the fleece is 13.5oz (also homemade).

I made a Ray-Way style tarp-and-net-tent that works well, and is a bit lighter than the Eureka at 3lbs even, and just 1.5lbs without the net tent. I discovered the hard way that it's difficult for one person to set up in the wind...there was one moment when I wasn't sure I could get it set up at all. I finally pitched it very low and crawled under it. Maybe one of these days I'll get ambitious and make a one-person version.

The cook pot is one that I've typically taken for two people, and it's convenient because my bowl and stove fit nicely inside it. You're right, though, I could save a few ounces there.

The tripod is a small mini-tripod that will also strap to a tree or whatever's handy. Mostly so I can get in the picture too. The binoculars are just for fun. I got the 10x ones a long time ago when I found that the original 8x ones I had were a little weak for the mountain goats. When they eventually got moisture inside, I replaced them with the 10x.

I haven't tried the Esbit. I have the mini-Trangia alcohol kit, but it's not really any lighter unless you leave part of it behind. And it's a pain to use.

I think what I maybe need is a change of approach or something. Using a frameless pack and the gear I have, I can theoretically get my base weight down to 13lb, but it's pretty spartan. The best I've done in reality is 22lb total including food and fuel for two days and a quart of water.
_________________________
Always remember that you are absolutely unique, just like everybody else. -Margaret Mead

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#200838 - 04/23/18 12:47 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Bill Kennedy]
Jim M Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 366
Loc: Kitsap Peninsula, WA
22 pounds ain't bad. I'm an old guy and in the olden days we carried 50 pound packs while climbing, and I even remember 55 Lbs. when I was backpacking with the family. They used to say 1/5 th (20%) body weight was comfortable goal. 22 Lbs. would be 1/9 th (11%) of my body weight. About half!
So in the end it depends on several variables. If you are young and strong, or if you are not going far or gaining a lot of elevation why not take a few extra comfort items?

Jim
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#200840 - 04/23/18 02:07 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Jim M]
Bill Kennedy Offline
member

Registered: 02/27/18
Posts: 294
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Young and strong? Well, I'm only 70 and could probably fight my way out of a wet paper bag if necessary:)
_________________________
Always remember that you are absolutely unique, just like everybody else. -Margaret Mead

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#200841 - 04/23/18 02:37 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: Bill Kennedy]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3183
Loc: Portland, OR
Maybe all the young and strong backpackers who can carry 55 lbs without whimpering through the final 3 miles to camp are not flocking to a lightweight backpacking site to discuss how to save another 6 oz. laugh

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#200842 - 04/23/18 06:33 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: aimless]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
The young and strong I see on the trails DO carry tiny packs. If you were to buy new gear today, most of it would be lighter than what you could buy 10 years ago. And the young I see do not seem to worry about money- some pretty high-tech stuff they have! Rather than carrying gear to "be prepared" (the old boy-scout method), they do without, ever-optomistic! It's like the clothes they hike in, one down jacket and a UL rain jacket. That's it! Being young and strong, they assume they will easily survive, anything regardless. I think a lot of them get their gear lists from the thru-route journals.

I regret to say this, but I think our forum does not attract the "young and strong" and we are over-represented by the "old and wise". I think we need to figure out how to attract these younger folks, or we will wither away.

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#200843 - 04/23/18 07:31 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: wandering_daisy]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3183
Loc: Portland, OR
Oh well, I was already planning on withering away eventually anyway. grin

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#200845 - 04/24/18 01:53 AM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: aimless]
JustWalking Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 267
Loc: PNW
"I regret to say this, but I think our forum does not attract the "young and strong" and we are over-represented by the "old and wise". I think we need to figure out how to attract these younger folks, or we will wither away."

As the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for. While BPL has plenty of fogies, they have a good number of the young and strong there. And it's quite a different vibe there than here. Not saying better or worse, but definitely different.

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#200847 - 04/24/18 03:13 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: JustWalking]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
It is not a matter of "vibe". It is a matter of relevance and survival. But I do not run the show, so guess it does not matter. Just my observation that other forums are a lot more active, both in posts and actual trips taken and reported. We "fogies" (myself included) perhaps should bite our tongue and be a bit less disapproving of some of the newer trends.

Then again, Face Book,Twitter and blog chatter may be the preferred method of communication for the younger generation of backpackers.

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#200848 - 04/24/18 05:19 PM Re: Trying To (you guessed it) Reduce Weight [Re: wandering_daisy]
JustWalking Offline
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 267
Loc: PNW
"It is not a matter of "vibe". It is a matter of relevance and survival."


I partially disagree. There are certain things people like about this site and its forums, that's why they're here and not elsewhere. It's true that without attracting new members this site will eventually die out. Plenty of sites do. But on the other hand, bringing in new members can change what it is that some people like about this site, and perhaps drive them elsewhere, which causes you to lose institutional knowledge that also contributes to a healthy site. No easy answers, of course.

"Then again, Face Book,Twitter and blog chatter may be the preferred method of communication for the younger generation of backpackers."

I certainly think there's truth in that, and also that there are so many blogs and such that "membership" in any one of them is minimal, another sign of the times.

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