I was curious if any of you practice stealth camping on public lands posted as no camping?

I regularly hike a certain mountain (controlled by my local city) that is posted as no camping -- as are all the other trails controlled by the city around here. There is an ordinance against being on the trails before sunrise or after sunset.

I really have a desire to cowboy camp at the top of one of the mountains. It's a long grind to the top and one cannot be seen from below. There is an old concrete slab that I could easily set a pad and bag on. No fire, no stove, etc. Leave no trace.

Unfortunately the fine for being caught is $651.00 I'm not sure if they actually fine those they catch or not? The ordinance and fine is largely aimed at college kids who loudly drink and hike on weekend nights -- far below where I want to camp.

I would really appreciate hearing other peoples' experiences at stealth hiking. Thanks.

People definitely illegal/stealth camp. There is a pretty long thread on it right now at another forum. It is quite a contentious topic, but at the end of the day if you can't do the time don't do the crime.

I am not going to tell you that it is "ok" to do something illegal. I'm also not going to berate you for considering doing something illegal. The rules could be largely driven by a desire not to have drunk college and high school kids up there burning down the forest. It is probably also driven by its proximity to a metropolitan area. It may not be able to handle the wear and tear of regular backpacking. If there are rangers up there for the purpose of chasing off college kids you may very well get caught. You may be able to play dumb and talk your way out of a ticket, but if you are not willing to pay the fine then you definitely shouldn't do this.

What BZH sais is as sensible as any reply you could get.

You could talk to the authorities and get the real reason that there is no camping allowed. Generally this will not work, but in some areas (usually low populations, rural and in a small town where everyone knows everyone), you will not get a definite "go ahead" (they are in a legal fix if they do that) but I have gotten the "I am not going to be there on xxx day" answer.

How you get caught is having a parked car at the trailhead. If you decide to do this overnight, have someone drop you off and pick you up. And no artificial lights.

It's because one of the mountains/trails controlled by the city is popular with high school and college aged individuals. They love to drink and hike AND make a lot of noise at 02:00 at the trailhead which is surrounded by upper class homes. Those neighbors complained.

Several years ago an ordinance was passed by the local city council. It wasn't really enforced but now the city is spending more on rangers and vows to clamp down:

www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article43604595.html

Excellent tip about being dropped off at the trailhead. I wouldn't make a fire, use a stove or a bright lamp if I end-up stealth camping...

On more than one occasion, I've asked rangers if I could overnight in closed areas and was granted access. You can sometimes do them a favor by reporting what you saw upon your return. Try it!

If you do it I want to hear about it

I used to stealth car camp a lot behind Castaic Lake, and quite a bit in the Sequoia NF, and whole bunch of NF on road trips. I just headed off on a dirt forest or logging road to find a place to pull off to the side and sleep on the ground when it was nice out. I was never bothered a bit. I only had Rangers find me a few times and all they did was stop and chat for a few minutes. The short of it is I'd tell them I was just wandering around enjoying the forest and they'd tell me to have fun.

I never lit a fire, or even set up a proper camp. I'd cook with a small stove and keep my gear in the car for the most part. I never played a radio, and I never got drunk and loud. For the most part, no one ever saw or heard me.

I never have tried urban stealth camping like you're talking about though. I think if I were to do that I'd just make sure to blend in. I'd go in early and come out late.

I stealth camped last night. We had our Thanksgiving feast at noon and I left shortly after its conclusion. I had someone drop me off so my vehicle would not be at the trailhead overnight.

The grind to the top was tougher than usual because I had a belly full of turkey with all the trimming. I passed two people on my way up as they were descending. I got to the summit in time to see the gorgeous sunset over the Pacific Ocean.

Once it was dark I made my bed (sleeping bag + bivy sack) and did a bit of star-gazing -- it was worth lugging the binos. Then I read for a while using my headlamp as I snacked on a couple of Snickers bars. I went to bed early as I was beat and it was COLD -- it got down to 31F -- below freezing, but I was comfortable with my rather ancient Western Mountaineering bag. No fire, no stove and no alcohol or drugs.

I got up to see the sunrise -- seeing the sunset and sunrise were priorities for me. I stowed my sleeping bag, bivy sack and pad into my pack as soon as I got up.

I watched the sunrise as I breakfasted on cherry Pop Tarts and a quart of hot chocolate from a thermos. I hung out for about two hours to watch the sunrise and pray the Rosary as a couple of early bird fitness types appeared.

I came in contact with about a half dozen others as I descended. It made no difference at that time -- I was golden when I made it to sunrise without a ticket.

It was a great experience except for the concern about being popped for $651.00. I figure the only way someone would get caught is if they were spotted ascending with a large pack and/or some reported them AND a ranger decided to hike for at least 90 minutes one way in order to give them a ticket.

Not too likely, but who the heck really knows?

Well, it sounds like it was very worth the minimal risk. I say minimal, as you took the precautions necessary to make it that way. From past experiences I've had in those situations, I would guess you would have got off with a warning, even if you had been caught. Likely, some of the rangers would be sympathetic and willing to turn a blind eye to your harmless trip. If some people did see you descending the trail that early and with a largish pack, word will get around. I'd keep it very quiet, otherwise, you may have company the next time.

There are two other things on my mind with regard to this hike:

* There is a trail to the summit that isn't controlled by the city. It's on private land and there is a single "no trespassing" sign at the trailhead but people have been hiking it for decades. It exists for utility access. It's plausible that one could use this route and actually not be aware that overnight camping was not allowed.

* The summit is adjacent to private lands. I might be able to get permission to camp on some of it. It wouldn't be at the summit, but it would be close enough. If I was legally camped on private land and then hiked a 1/4 of a mile to the summit to watch the sunset or stargaze and was tickted, that's one I would definitely fight.

My wife and I ended up stealth camping this weekend in Harriman State Park in NY. We had chosen a section of trail that led to a stone shelter, but found when we arrived at the site shown on the old map we had, it was gone! We walked farther on and got well off the trail down climbing a series of ledges into a mature hardwood forest carpeted with a heavy layer of leaves. We turned in early last night due to a persistent light rain that was just above freezing, which got me up and making coffee at 2 AM this morning. We got up and were on the trail at 3, out by 7, aided by sporadic headlamp use to check trail markers and a full moon suffusing its light through the cloud cover. Had time to check some trails in the Catskills on our way back home to Vt.The trails in our area are filled with hunters, so we headed to an area that bans them. We saw one other couple on our way in, so we bothered not a soul and only disturbed some leaves. In this extensive trail system, which also has a part of the AT, less than an hour from NYC, I can see the camping restrictions, but I felt no guilt for doing what we did. I've seen others discuss this in their blogs, and some that do it purposefully using hammocks to do the least harm. I'm not an advocate, but I will camp where and when no other alternative presents itself, and no ecological damage will result. We had a great time.

Any idea what the fine amount would have been had you two been ticketed?

I am also curious about stealth camping in a national forest?

There is a mountain here locally that's located in a national forest (not a national park.) I have never seen any signage that prohibits camping on the trail.

There are however regulations and fees regarding camping at the improved campground adjacent to the trailhead and one must buy a $5.00 "adventure pass" simply to park which is good until 10:00am the next day.

If one were to park, hit the trail, camp at the summit and then reach their vehicles before 10:00 the next day, would they be cited? I can't imagine the resident ranger grinding his way to the summit just to give out some sort of citation?

Why not ask the rangers? Since ignorance of the law is no excuse and wouldn't get you out of ticket, why not ask?

Many national forests in California allow what is called "dispersed camping" which means anywhere you'd like as long as you meet certain guidelines. For example, in Death Valley I think you have to be two miles off a paved road--but given the size of that park, and the miles of dirt roads, that's not really much of a condition. Stanislaus NF allows dispersed camping except along the 108 corridor between Strawberry and Kennedy Meadows--where there are tons of regulation campsites...

Aragon]Any idea what the fine amount would have been had you two been ticketed?

No, and the chances of being ticketed were slim to nil. The advantage is the time of year here, which has patrols reduced to minimal numbers, the visitors down to small fractions of what they are in warmer times, and the fact we had legal overnight parking. We also camped in an area far and out of sight from the trail, so chances of being spotted were infinitesimal. Although what we did might be frowned upon, it is apparently looked at as a scoff law, actually legal in some areas of the park, and most likely, we would just be asked to move on. The rangers in this area are much more concerned with car and camp break-ins, vandalism, and traffic control.
I spend a great deal of time in National Forest, as I live on the border of one. We don't need an adventure pass and the camping is restricted along some access roads, but for the most part , it is legal to camp 150' from water sources and trails. Forests are managed differently from district to district and region to region, but I know there is very liberal camping policies on the eastside of the Sierra in the Inyo and Mono N.F.'s, outside of the areas controlled by wilderness permits.

Because the resident ranger is likely to say "no", no matter what the actual regulations might state.

FWIW, I found the official website dealing with dispersed camping in national forests (not parks.) There was a list of conditions to camp in such areas. The place I would like to camp met each and every one of them.

I then emailed the local ranger's office and received a reply that no, dispersed camping is not allowed in the place of interest to me.

That's exactly what I was expecting...

FWIW, the term 'stealth camping' is one that's not well defined in the backpacking community, it's used to mean different things by different people.

For some, and/or in some contexts, it does indeed mean "breaking the rules" (and perhaps the law). For others, and/or in other contexts, it just means "camping where other hikers are unlikely to see your campsite or be aware that you're there".

There are various reasons for the latter use. Perhaps you feel safer this way (perhaps a young solo female hiker for example or just in general). Perhaps you just like to have as much of an "alone in the woods" experience as possible.

There's even at least one more use --- for some, the term has evolved to simply mean "primitive camping", i.e., no established campsite.

You've definitely established the context for your use of the term but just --- FYI. If you hear it used without context, don't assume that you know what is meant!

I agree--I never before related "stealth" to "illegal."

I try really hard to camp well out of sight, well off the trail, and along the inlets/outlet of lakes rather than at the lake itself. Nothing illegal about it, just the desire for privacy.

It sounds as though I need to develop a new term for the way I normally camp, if folks are going to consider my camping style illegal!

I've heard the term many times, especially in context of those who travel by roads, in the European style of trekking. Many years ago I traveled a lot by bicycle and perfected camping in parks and even golf courses. I've camped on private lands (in my wayward youth), and also seek out the areas less traveled and less trammeled. In my area some of the shelters/tent platforms on the AT have caretakers and charge a fee. One is on my favorite brook trout pond that i have hiked into and fished for 30 years. Much to the chagrin of the usually well baked caretakers, I "stealth" camp and avoid paying for the sites usually packed after May with thru hikers. Stealth camping has a number of connotations , but I understood perfectly what Aragon meant.

Thanks. It's amazing how threads get derailed in this manner...

I'm sure I've heard "stealth camping" used all the ways Brian suggests.

The opposite of OM, I've always used it to mean camping illegally, like I did when car camping in the western NFs.

For years now I've camp off trail and far away from campsites as a rule, but I don't try to be "stealthy". Where I go I know there's no one else around. I've never had anyone walk into my camp, or even close to it. The NFS calls it "Dispersed Camping" where I do it. I'd like something a bit more adventurous sounding, like "Wilderness Camping", but I guess I can call it that if I want when telling people about it

Is the type of camping you do in mature forest? In most of the areas near me, second growth and dense understory makes it tough to get off trail, and tough to find a campsite larger than a place to lay down. I really enjoyed where we camped this past weekend, due to the fact of the open forest. If the Ozarks have that kind of "open" feel, I may just have to plan a trip.

Quote:

"Is the type of camping you do in mature forest? In most of the areas near me, second growth and dense understory makes it tough to get off trail, and tough to find a campsite larger than a place to lay down."

Agreed, where you're hiking makes a big difference. Living in WA state and hiking generally in the western half or in the mountains, until I traveled to hike I assumed that expectations here were just 'normal' everywhere: that unless you have a hammock, you mostly need to find an established, cleared campsite. Definitely not true in lots of other places.

It's a mix. There are still some mature forested areas that have a less dense understory but there's also a lot of new growth in previously clear cut areas that is still very brushy.

Some of the parks nearby me have a lot of old growth. The Leatherwood Wilderness is a good example of that, whereas the Hercules Glades Wilderness was practically all clear cut before it was acquired. Real old growth here is Pine, then comes Hardwood, and more recent clear cuts have regrown in Eastern Red Cedar, which is pretty nasty thick in a lot of areas.

When I go where I've not been before I tend to hike from the ridge tops down into the bottom of bigger hollows and along the wet weather creeks they form. In those, where smaller cuts in the mountainside meet the main hollow, there's often some flat land with grass on real topsoil that can be great for camping.

Since I do my camping in the cool season the taller grass and brush has already died down so it's just a matter of removing a bit of deadfall and relocating a few small rocks to make an area big enough to set up my tent. But there's almost nowhere that's really level or flat when you're in the thick of the forests and it's always a bit lumpy at best in the bottoms.

The ridge tops can be a great place to set up too, especially under old growth pine and hardwood. It can be flat and smooth with a soft bed of pine needles but you have to pack water and that's almost always a pretty tough hike away down in the bottoms.

All that said, you really should plan a trip to the Ozarks. There are some truly spectacular areas to "Wilderness Camp" here and it's easy to find complete solitude if that's what you want. The Ozarks are unique too. Much different that what you find in the Sierras, Rockies, or Appalachians. There are a zillion amazing scenic spots within them and almost no humans. Outside of deer season you're likely to be one of less than a dozen humans per 10,000 acres in most of the Wilderness areas.

Adding in the fact I know there is some spectacular fishing for trout and smallmouth bass, you have me convinced. Thanks, Bill. We just got our permits for another trip into the Grand Canyon, so it won't be anytime soon, but myabe from next fall to next spring sometime. The GC is one of the places I follow the rules to the letter, as I truly believe the Park Service does a good job of keeping the inner canyon pretty wild, considering the number of visitors. I really don't care if I have to camp around a few people there when in the corridor trail area. We've day hiked into some lonely places and felt like true explorers, even though I know many had gone before.