Hello I'm a newbie backpacker looking for a lite and durable rain jacket. I am going to be using it all over and am not too concerned with warmth as I will layer as needed. I will only be using it during warmer months while backpacking. My budget is around 200$. Most importantly to me I want quality and for it to have some nice features along with breathability, and be WATERPROOF. I have looked at the Marmot Nano AS and the Marmot Precip and I saw some of you posted saying the Precip leaks. I have seen no posts on the Marmot Nano AS so if anyone has seen flaws please share! If the differences in the 2 jackets is not too much different then I would rather shell out 100 on the Precip than 185 on the Nano AS. Also so many different colors for the Precip haha. Thanks for your time everyone. What do you guys use?

This is a very interesting question and could honesty generate a tremendous amount of discussion. I'll tell you what I use and why, but i'm sure you will get a ton of different opinions on this.

I wear an Eddie Bauer Weatheredge rain jacket. I find it breaths well for a "waterproof" jacket, keeps me dry from rain, and serves as a nice wind jacket for an extra layer when needed. The real problem with rain jackets is that you will eventually have moisture buildup on the interior. The same technology that keeps rain out will keep body perspiration in. There isn't much you can do about that other than try to limit your exertions and stay cool and dry.

I wore this jacket last weekend during an extended 5 hour steady rain and it kept me dry. For pants I just wear nylon hiking pants, which are water resistant. They dry quick, which is all I really care about. I generally sleep in different pants than I hike in, so even if they remain wet at the end of the day it is not an issue. I hang them to dry overnight with my socks.

You mention you are a newbie. I think after you get a full season under your belt and experience several different rain conditions, you won't be as concerned with staying dry. Rain jackets are a lot more complicated that you'd expect. For example, layering under a rain jacket is an entire topic of its own. Its very easy to have perspiration trapped under the rain jacket cause a down jacket to become very wet. I like fleece for a midlayer for this reason, especially in warmer weather rain.

Long post, but nobody else had responded, so hopefully this helps some.

Hey thank you for the reply. This is the last piece of gear I need and I'm having a lot of trouble. Every time I look at reviews though for ANY jacket there is always 50/50 answers. 1 guy says, "It's great never leaks and I have had it for years." next guys says " Only had it for a few months and have not damaged it in any way but I get wet in heavy rain." So I just don't know where to invest my money. I just want a jacket that will keep me dry.

I picked up a Marmot PreCip for $50 on clearance at Dick's Sporting Goods - of course I had to settle for the color (pumpkin orange). At least I will be easily identifiable on the trail! I have worn this jacket through several rain storms and the only complaint I have is that there are no zippered armpit vents. Aside from that, I've remained quite dry and comfortable in fog, mist and driving rains.

It seems to me that these days companies change their rain jackets every year and each time they change the jacket they change the name, so that even though I bought a new UL rain jacket last year, I've forgotten what it was called and it was already on closeout, so by now you couldn't buy a new one anyway. The Precip has maintained its name continuously for more than a decade, but even it changes design slightly every year and I can't recommend it, except as being better than nothing.

As a general rule, any of the new rain jackets do pretty well in cool temps and light to moderate rain, during light to moderate exertion. In heavy rain, or when outdoor air temps are warm, or under heavy exertion, they generally lose whatever modest amount of breathability they may claim to have. UL jackets that depend on DWR coatings also begin to leak whenever they suffer enough wear and abrasion to compromise that coating.

The most reliable method for maintaining breathability under exertion is still ventilation, ventilation, ventilation. Incidentally, the best ventilated rain protection you can get is an umbrella. If the air temps are truly warm, the wind is calm, and you are exerting heavily, you could consider the tactic of just getting wet and either changing into dry clothes in camp or letting the clothes dry from body heat when the rain stops. This ONLY works well if your clothes are synthetic, not cotton, and the rain really does stop.

After years of trial and error here in the PNW, I've given up on finding the perfect rain jacket that can keep me dry under all conditions. I've concluded it is as mythical as the chimera. My latest strategy has been to bring a very lightweight rain jacket and rain pants always (11 ounces combined), and add an umbrella and "waterproof" socks if I expect more than light rain or a heavy, but brief shower or two.

Thanks for the reply sir. I have heard great things regarding the precip jacket. I have also heard negative reviews stating the waterproofing doesn't hold up. I know every product is going to have both negative and positive reviews but.. when an items sole purpose is to keep you dry I have a hard time choosing a jacket that I have read leaks.

Thank you for your time Aimless. I too fear I'm coming to a point of conclusion that the truly Waterproof jacket does not exist. Which is so disappointing haha.

I've experimented a bit with Frogg Toggs. They seem like the best option I've seen for a non-durable and inexpensive (read: semi-disposable) solution. They are not everyone's ideal. I prefer something less worrisome in terms of rips and tears, which is why I went away from them. Perhaps someone else will address their experience with them.

There are two current threads going simultaneously in this section on rain jackets. I'm not going to try to merge them (with my luck, it would result in chaos), but I suggest you read them both.

One possible test is to stand in the shower (cool water) for about 30 minutes with the rain gear on. That doesn't cover the situation where the DWR wears out after 6-12 months and, despite several efforts per the manufacturer's instructions, can't be renewed, but at least it lets you know if the jacket will keep you dry the first few times you wear it. Hopefully the jacket will be returnable (dry it carefully) if it fails the shower test shortly after purchase.

There has only been 3 threads on rain jackets all the way back to 2010 extending back to page 60 haha. I have read them all. Thanks for any input guys.

You might give a bit of thought to trying a poncho. You can get a silicon/nylon poncho from Campmor for under $100, it will weigh about 9 oz, it will keep all but your forearms and shins dry and is well ventilated. They can be a handful in wind unless you tie it down around your waist but otherwise they work pretty well. I used a poncho on my JMT through-hike last summer and it worked well for me. It rained a lot when I was on the trail so it got a good testing. The only complaint I had was that my forearms were exposed to the rain and often got cold and wet. Next time I'll take along some of those bicyclists slip-on sleeves to keep my arms dry and a pair of waterproof shell mitts to keep my hands dry. A poncho can also serve as an emergency shelter too. A poncho also can serve as a pack cover, if you get one cut for a pack, sparing one the need to take along a pack cover or liner.

I use a poncho. I know, most people don't like them. But, I live in a really dry state. If it rains, a poncho is generally plenty adequate. I can also throw it over the back of my pack and keep it dry as well. If it is windy, I put a rope belt on. I just haven't had a bad experience with my poncho.

The other day, a local outfitter had a sale on kid sized Kelty ponchos for $10 each. I bought 3. They fit my 5 year old, my 8 yr old and my 9 year old. I have two adult sized ponchos for my 12 and 13 year olds. I think they cost $20 each.

Looks like I posted at the same time as Pika

Just posted this week:
Andrew Skurka on rain jackets/rain pants
Long, but lots of good info. His conclusions are somewhat similar to mine, interestingly. Ive been in lots of horrible weather, but not like he has!
Backpackgeartest.org is somewhat limited in scope but is an excellent source for really thorough reviews. The testers really put the gear through its paces! The link I gave is for the rain jackets/pants section.

That was a great article on all clothing not just rain jackets. Thank you it has proven resourceful from what I've read so far. Thank you OM.

Check your Pm. I just noticed I had a PM since I haven't been on much this week due to being busy!

Some of those 50/50 replies depend on how the reviewer defines "wet" and "dry." With good rain gear, I've found that it all keeps me "dry" in the sense that it doesn't let rain in through the fabric. (All rain gear will let water in at the edges: cuffs, where hood seals, or doesn't seal, around your face and neck, etc. The cuffs can "leak" if you're using trekking poles, and you hands are higher than your elbows, letting water drain off your hands down your arms.) But the fabric panels do a great job of keeping water out.

Unfortunately, if you're walking, those fabric panels also do a great job of keeping water (aka "sweat") in. Many reviewers who complain of being wet in spite of the raingear are, in fact, wet when they take it off because it can't pass sweat out as fast as your body generates it. Also, in a heavy rain, the water on the outside of the fabric drastically reduces the ability of "breathable" fabric to pass water out because it blocks the "holes." That's not the raingear's fault. I've experienced that effect, too, and you're just as wet, but it's not because your raingear leaked. The only solution is to slow down your pace, so you don't actively sweat. Sometimes it works, sometimes not so much. In a heavy rain in July, you can't even stand still and keep from sweating.

There is no perfect raingear. I do know that, so far, my Outdoor Research Foray has performed better than any other I've used - it doesn't mean I'm bone-dry after walking in the rain, but I'm much less damp that with anything else I've used. (And I have used the Precip. I don't recall any leakage, but I know that perspiration didn't pass outward nearly as well as it does in the Foray.)

I have yet to research the OR products. I just took 15 minutes to look at the Foray and it looks great! Little on the heavy side with 15.5 ounces but still looks awesome! Unfortunately it is not available at REI anymore for me to try on. Damnit!

I think the take away from this is not to obsess over rain gear. Rain gear will perform differently for different people in different climates, depending on how much you sweat and how hard you hike. Just buy a quality jacket from a quality manufacturer and be prepared for less than perfect results.

I don't think anyone is obsessing. Just utilizing this thread for discussion to make the best informed decision possible.

OR makes a lighter rain jacket called the Helium II, which uses Pertex instead of GoreTex; I've never used Pertex, so I can't tell you much about it. I've seen others on this site praise it, though. The jacket weighs 6 ounces, and REI carries it (though iI didn't check for in-store availability - could you have it shipped to the store, and return it on the spot with no shipping charge?)

Besides REI, is there a local independent shop near you? If so, they might carry OR.

Hmmm... maybe I need to visit them tomorrow on my way to the trailhead, and take a look at the Helium stuff....

I picked up a $30 rain jacket and i regret

Very happy with my Marmot Aegis.

I re-opened this thread from last year because I'm looking for a new raincoat for the upcoming season. Anyhow, I saw this post of Andrew Skurka's that Oregon Mouse passed along: interesting, and he pretty much says what I have come to believe, which is that you're either going to get wet from sweat or from rain (or both) and you're never really truly going to be dry if you backpack in the rain. You have a little better chance if the jacket is new, but the fancy "waterproof-breathable" finishes are pretty much over-rated and have never lasted that long on every jacket I've ever owned. I've been using Marmot Pre-cips in recent years, and I like them ok, probably will get another, but I don't expect to be truly dry if it rains much, the best I can hope for are dry clothes for tonight and a sunny day tomorrow, and I strike out at that, too, sometimes.
No, I think the best rain gear is keeping a stiff upper lip.

The best, or should I say driest, rain gear, for my wife and I , has been poncho/tarps; because they allow so much air flow. The huge downsides are how poorly they stay on in wind , how they restrict the view of the trail in front of you, the increased wetness using poles and how you can actually trip over them. My wife uses a Marmot Precip and EMS rain pants , I have an LL BEAN stowaway jacket and SD rain pants. Main function is to keep the wind at bay and stay warm and damp. What we have now is just iterations of other products that worked about the same. We have had good results where it rains hard for a short time and our pace goes to a crawl (not that it exceeds that, anyway). Mostly, we try to walk safely and have a dry set to wear in the tent. If you don't tend to sweat much you'd also tend to rave about how well your W/B fabric performs. My wife fares much better than me on that score.

I use the Patagonia Houdini - very light. I use it backpacking as well as running in the rain. Runs $50-$99.

Here is a review.
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Wind-Breaker-Jacket-Reviews/Patagonia-Houdini

Personally I really like using just my Dri Ducks top it is light-ish packable-ish and if I tear a hole in it on a tree branch or anything like that I am only out 20-25 bucks.

But there are much lighter and packable options out there with better features. My biggest gripe about the dri ducks is the breathability. I have had the Marmot precip in my cart more than once but still cant bring myself to spend the bucks on it.

frogg toggs

My favorite rain/wind jacket of all time is a GoLite rain jacket. It's supposed to be breathable and "four layer". I don't see how, but it works. It's tissue paper thin, however its dry, tough, crunches down to nothing and weights practically nothing. It's withstood the test of time and has been all over the world with me for years. I'd buy another in a heart beat. You can still find GoLite stuff around on Amazon and Sierra Trading post.

An alternative opinion on the ‘rain problem’: The stiff-upper-lip method.

Rain gear is so complicated that you’d want different solutions for different climates and trips. After spending all that money and meticulously planning each trip to take the perfect gear… you’ll generally still wind up wet.

I basically gave up on it altogether and just wear a hat and shades to keep the rain out of my eyes. A spare set of dry clothes (my trusty sleep suit) are more useful to me than dedicated rain gear. And the rain is like taking a shower… a good thing in the backcountry!

Wetness alone is nothing to worry about- the problem is the cold that comes along with it. Since you are confident that you’ll stay warm you don’t need fancy rain gear.

Not all rain is equal! I have also come down to the grin and bear it method on coastal hiking where temperatures are moderate and vary only 5-10 degrees night and day and it is always and continually misty/humid. A dedicated dry layer for nights and daytime clothes that are easily wrung out. The miserable part is taking off the dry clothes in the morning and putting on the cold wet clothes. Makes you walk fast at first! I do take a wind shirt because the coast is always windy. The wind shirt acts like a wetsuit.

In high altitude mountains, I take rain gear. High altitude temperatures are just too cold to allow all your clothing to get wet. Needed also for wind protection. Storms come up suddenly and you cannot always stop and camp and must at times descend for hours to more sheltered spots and if soaked, you can easily drift into hypothermia in a very short time. My rain gear is pretty simple. I actually use REI kids rain pants because it is made without frills. I am lucky that it fits me. My rain jacket is also very simple, Montbell, and it also doubles as a warmth layer.

I have been experimenting with an umbrella. It also can be used to provide needed shade when you have to walk along a hot, south facing slope of granite without a tree in sight. Jury is out on it yet. If I take the umbrella, it has to be my rain gear, since I will not take it as an extra.

The other method is the "weather forecast" method! Just stay home if rain is forecast. This actually often works in the Sierra in mid to late summer if you are only doing a 2-3 day trip.

Daisy is right (of course, we have separately backpacked in very similar conditions). With temps down in the 40s or 30s F and windy, as normally happens in high mountain environments, you can't afford to get wet. Hypothermia happens really fast under such conditions.

Here's a hint for the "suck it up" method. If it stops raining long enough, and your clothing is made of synthetic materials, it will dry from your body heat in less than an hour. If this doesn't happen before bedtime (it usually doesn't), I take a large plastic bag, put my damp daytime clothing inside, seal it up and put it in the bottom of my sleeping bag. The clothing won't dry (you definitely don't want the moisture in your sleeping bag insulation), but in the morning it will be body temperature so you won't scream when you put it on! Plus, with the clothing already warmed to body temp, it will dry from your body heat that much faster.

Using an umbrella with trekking poles is not something I want to try to do, and I definitely can't hike without trekking poles. Plus fighting an umbrella in windy conditions is no fun, since I have no desire to play Mary Poppins.

Agreed, the 'stiff-upper-lip' method is not for all conditions. In extreme zones all bets are off. If you can't setup an emergency shelter and slip into dry clothes then you definitely need more rain protection!

Putting on the damp clothes in the morning is jolting but also a great hiking motivator- more rousing than any cup of coffee that's for sure! I just stay in my sleep suit until I'm ready to hike

Ultimately it depends on the terrain, climate, and your personal tolerance for wetness. Having some method to stay warm is key, though.

That's a good tip on the body-temp-wet-clothes-bag, OM. I'll have to try that out.

I've been having my own debate about rain gear recently, and think I've come to similar conclusions about the real life effectiveness of WPB fabrics and keeping dry. I also have found that the stiff upper lip/grin and bear it method can work pretty well if its mild and not pouring, and actually be more enjoyable than wearing my rain jacket. My rain jacket weighs almost a pound, for something I very rarely use (and don't enjoy using), so I have been thinking about replacing it with something lighter.

I'm starting to lean towards buying something like dry ducks or O2 rainwear for when I truly need something, but worry about long term durability. For those of you who use them, how often do you have to replace them? After 5 uses? 20? I'm not really a big fan of the concept of thinking of things as disposable.

The only other thing I have thought about is buy or make a poncho, but I worry about how effective they would be in a real storm, as opposed to calm rain. Do those of you who use ponchos find them to be enough protection for sideways rain/very windy conditions?

I've gone through phases of preferring one form of raingear over another, and overall don't have too much of a preference. A poncho can work fine in sideways rain and wind, depending on your expectations. With the caveat that I "belt" mine, using a little stretchy shock cord and a cord lock. Without that, yes, PITA in the wind. If you expect to backpack or dayhike a lot in rain, the Packa is a great piece of gear. I don't tend to ever use mine, however, because --- as it turns out --- we most of us don't go hiking in conditions where we expect a lot of rain! :-)

My go-to rain jacket is an OR Helium II. I used the original Helium and liked that too until the zipper got wonky on my and OR replaced it for free with a II.

I don't expect this to keep me utterly dry in any conditions. Again, it's about expectations and process. It will keep me dry for a bit, and if it keeps raining beyond that it comes down to temperature control a lot more than "being dry". I like that the Helium II is lightweight enough that I don't consider bringing a separate windshirt, this jacket does double duty. And I like that it can be sort of "modular". With a poncho, it's all or nothing. With the light rain/wind jacket I can optionally add a cuben rain skirt, cuben pack cover or neither.

I like also that it looks and works like a "regular jacket" around town, and traveling to and from the trail. I like that it packs small as well as light. I'm about to do a fairly long bike trip, where volume in my saddlebag panniers is a bigger factor than weight, and this jacket is "making the cut" for that trip.

It's worth occasionally reapplying the DWR onto the fabric, which is a little hassle, but no disaster if I get lazy and just don't.

I'm sure there are lots of fine choices; this one works for me.

Hey Brian, do you have a trip report on how your OR Helium II performed on your bike trip? I'm thinking of a lightweight dash on the bike but maybe with a 4oz windshirt just for a change instead of a 20oz Showers Pass bike jacket.

Haven't done the bike trip yet. But I'm going relatively low mileages, not terribly high speed; I doubt it will surprise me much as I've hiked in it a lot.

Forecast for the trip includes a fair bit of rain, so I expect to get wet some; as with hiking, IMO it's all about temperature control. I wear quick-drying clothing, so no worries really, just a mild and temporary comfort issue at times.

All that said, every time you change a variable on a trip, confident predictions can turn out to be hash! :-)

As I've mentioned numerous times, I don't swallow the myth of "waterproof/breathable" (WPB), since I've tried several and found them neither breathable nor (after the first few weeks) waterproof. (The so-called "WP" under the pack's shoulder straps wears out really fast). I much prefer non-breathable and truly waterproof ("WP/non-B"?) rain wear. If it's cold, I don't sweat in it. If it's warm, I leave it off, wear very lightweight, fast-drying shirt and pants, and just get wet. I get a jacket that's way too big which allows for more ventilation for "in-between" conditions.

Quite a few seem to agree with me, including Andrew Skurka and "Section Hiker's" Phillip Werner (as well as some of our members here). A few days ago, "Section Hiker" published a review of the Lightheart Gear Rain Jacket, wbich may interest some of you. It's cheaper ($99) and lighter (7 oz.) than most WPB jackets, but has many features such as 15" lont pit zips, full-flap front zip, full brim hood, two good-sized inside (and therefore waterproof) pockets and two handwarmer pockets. It was seeing this review that inspired this post.

My own rain jacket is one of the very last "Brawny Gear" jackets made of silnylon (I had to seal the seams with Silnet, of course) which weighs about 4 oz. It unfortuntely is an anorak (pullover) but I got the largest size so there's plenty of room. In fact, it's roomy enough that I could add a front zipper if I wanted. In addition to being lightweight, it's also extremely compact when stuffed into my pack! I've been using it for 10 years and it's still plenty waterproof.

There are other lightweight WP/non-B rainwear items around, from such sources as Luke's Ultralight, Sierra Designs (the cagoule designed by Skurka), and AntiGravity Gear. These all have pit zips and front zippers and some are lighter than the one discussed above.

I get little enough rain that I just bring a poncho for wind/water layer.