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#189713 - 03/17/15 08:17 PM Rain jackets, what do you use?
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Hello I'm a newbie backpacker looking for a lite and durable rain jacket. I am going to be using it all over and am not too concerned with warmth as I will layer as needed. I will only be using it during warmer months while backpacking. My budget is around 200$. Most importantly to me I want quality and for it to have some nice features along with breathability, and be WATERPROOF. I have looked at the Marmot Nano AS and the Marmot Precip and I saw some of you posted saying the Precip leaks. I have seen no posts on the Marmot Nano AS so if anyone has seen flaws please share! If the differences in the 2 jackets is not too much different then I would rather shell out 100 on the Precip than 185 on the Nano AS. Also so many different colors for the Precip haha. Thanks for your time everyone. What do you guys use?


Edited by PurpleHaze (03/19/15 12:09 PM)

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#189757 - 03/19/15 09:23 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
KyHiker40 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Louisville, KY
This is a very interesting question and could honesty generate a tremendous amount of discussion. I'll tell you what I use and why, but i'm sure you will get a ton of different opinions on this.

I wear an Eddie Bauer Weatheredge rain jacket. I find it breaths well for a "waterproof" jacket, keeps me dry from rain, and serves as a nice wind jacket for an extra layer when needed. The real problem with rain jackets is that you will eventually have moisture buildup on the interior. The same technology that keeps rain out will keep body perspiration in. There isn't much you can do about that other than try to limit your exertions and stay cool and dry.

I wore this jacket last weekend during an extended 5 hour steady rain and it kept me dry. For pants I just wear nylon hiking pants, which are water resistant. They dry quick, which is all I really care about. I generally sleep in different pants than I hike in, so even if they remain wet at the end of the day it is not an issue. I hang them to dry overnight with my socks.

You mention you are a newbie. I think after you get a full season under your belt and experience several different rain conditions, you won't be as concerned with staying dry. Rain jackets are a lot more complicated that you'd expect. For example, layering under a rain jacket is an entire topic of its own. Its very easy to have perspiration trapped under the rain jacket cause a down jacket to become very wet. I like fleece for a midlayer for this reason, especially in warmer weather rain.

Long post, but nobody else had responded, so hopefully this helps some.

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#189762 - 03/20/15 12:42 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: KyHiker40]
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Hey thank you for the reply. This is the last piece of gear I need and I'm having a lot of trouble. Every time I look at reviews though for ANY jacket there is always 50/50 answers. 1 guy says, "It's great never leaks and I have had it for years." next guys says " Only had it for a few months and have not damaged it in any way but I get wet in heavy rain." So I just don't know where to invest my money. I just want a jacket that will keep me dry.

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#189763 - 03/20/15 12:46 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
dylansdad77 Offline
member

Registered: 03/12/14
Posts: 161
Loc: New Jersey
I picked up a Marmot PreCip for $50 on clearance at Dick's Sporting Goods - of course I had to settle for the color (pumpkin orange). At least I will be easily identifiable on the trail! I have worn this jacket through several rain storms and the only complaint I have is that there are no zippered armpit vents. Aside from that, I've remained quite dry and comfortable in fog, mist and driving rains.
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Did you know that 83.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

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#189765 - 03/20/15 01:38 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
It seems to me that these days companies change their rain jackets every year and each time they change the jacket they change the name, so that even though I bought a new UL rain jacket last year, I've forgotten what it was called and it was already on closeout, so by now you couldn't buy a new one anyway. The Precip has maintained its name continuously for more than a decade, but even it changes design slightly every year and I can't recommend it, except as being better than nothing.

As a general rule, any of the new rain jackets do pretty well in cool temps and light to moderate rain, during light to moderate exertion. In heavy rain, or when outdoor air temps are warm, or under heavy exertion, they generally lose whatever modest amount of breathability they may claim to have. UL jackets that depend on DWR coatings also begin to leak whenever they suffer enough wear and abrasion to compromise that coating.

The most reliable method for maintaining breathability under exertion is still ventilation, ventilation, ventilation. Incidentally, the best ventilated rain protection you can get is an umbrella. If the air temps are truly warm, the wind is calm, and you are exerting heavily, you could consider the tactic of just getting wet and either changing into dry clothes in camp or letting the clothes dry from body heat when the rain stops. This ONLY works well if your clothes are synthetic, not cotton, and the rain really does stop.

After years of trial and error here in the PNW, I've given up on finding the perfect rain jacket that can keep me dry under all conditions. I've concluded it is as mythical as the chimera. My latest strategy has been to bring a very lightweight rain jacket and rain pants always (11 ounces combined), and add an umbrella and "waterproof" socks if I expect more than light rain or a heavy, but brief shower or two.

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#189766 - 03/20/15 01:44 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: dylansdad77]
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Thanks for the reply sir. I have heard great things regarding the precip jacket. I have also heard negative reviews stating the waterproofing doesn't hold up. I know every product is going to have both negative and positive reviews but.. when an items sole purpose is to keep you dry I have a hard time choosing a jacket that I have read leaks.

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#189767 - 03/20/15 01:49 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: aimless]
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Thank you for your time Aimless. I too fear I'm coming to a point of conclusion that the truly Waterproof jacket does not exist. Which is so disappointing haha.

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#189768 - 03/20/15 02:16 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
I've experimented a bit with Frogg Toggs. They seem like the best option I've seen for a non-durable and inexpensive (read: semi-disposable) solution. They are not everyone's ideal. I prefer something less worrisome in terms of rips and tears, which is why I went away from them. Perhaps someone else will address their experience with them.

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#189769 - 03/20/15 02:23 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
There are two current threads going simultaneously in this section on rain jackets. I'm not going to try to merge them (with my luck, it would result in chaos), but I suggest you read them both.

One possible test is to stand in the shower (cool water) for about 30 minutes with the rain gear on. That doesn't cover the situation where the DWR wears out after 6-12 months and, despite several efforts per the manufacturer's instructions, can't be renewed, but at least it lets you know if the jacket will keep you dry the first few times you wear it. Hopefully the jacket will be returnable (dry it carefully) if it fails the shower test shortly after purchase.


Edited by OregonMouse (03/20/15 02:31 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#189771 - 03/20/15 02:46 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: OregonMouse]
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
There has only been 3 threads on rain jackets all the way back to 2010 extending back to page 60 haha. I have read them all. Thanks for any input guys.

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#189772 - 03/20/15 02:47 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
You might give a bit of thought to trying a poncho. You can get a silicon/nylon poncho from Campmor for under $100, it will weigh about 9 oz, it will keep all but your forearms and shins dry and is well ventilated. They can be a handful in wind unless you tie it down around your waist but otherwise they work pretty well. I used a poncho on my JMT through-hike last summer and it worked well for me. It rained a lot when I was on the trail so it got a good testing. The only complaint I had was that my forearms were exposed to the rain and often got cold and wet. Next time I'll take along some of those bicyclists slip-on sleeves to keep my arms dry and a pair of waterproof shell mitts to keep my hands dry. A poncho can also serve as an emergency shelter too. A poncho also can serve as a pack cover, if you get one cut for a pack, sparing one the need to take along a pack cover or liner.
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#189773 - 03/20/15 02:49 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: OregonMouse]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I use a poncho. I know, most people don't like them. But, I live in a really dry state. If it rains, a poncho is generally plenty adequate. I can also throw it over the back of my pack and keep it dry as well. If it is windy, I put a rope belt on. I just haven't had a bad experience with my poncho.

The other day, a local outfitter had a sale on kid sized Kelty ponchos for $10 each. I bought 3. They fit my 5 year old, my 8 yr old and my 9 year old. I have two adult sized ponchos for my 12 and 13 year olds. I think they cost $20 each.

Looks like I posted at the same time as Pika smile


Edited by finallyME (03/20/15 02:51 PM)
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#189774 - 03/20/15 02:51 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: finallyME]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Just posted this week:
Andrew Skurka on rain jackets/rain pants
Long, but lots of good info. His conclusions are somewhat similar to mine, interestingly. Ive been in lots of horrible weather, but not like he has!
Backpackgeartest.org is somewhat limited in scope but is an excellent source for really thorough reviews. The testers really put the gear through its paces! The link I gave is for the rain jackets/pants section.


Edited by OregonMouse (03/20/15 03:46 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#189775 - 03/20/15 04:13 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: OregonMouse]
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
That was a great article on all clothing not just rain jackets. Thank you it has proven resourceful from what I've read so far. Thank you OM.

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#189776 - 03/20/15 04:53 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
ETSU Pride Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 933
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Check your Pm. I just noticed I had a PM since I haven't been on much this week due to being busy!
_________________________
It is one of the blessings of wilderness life that it shows us how few things we need in order to be perfectly happy.-- Horace Kephart

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#189778 - 03/20/15 07:20 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Some of those 50/50 replies depend on how the reviewer defines "wet" and "dry." With good rain gear, I've found that it all keeps me "dry" in the sense that it doesn't let rain in through the fabric. (All rain gear will let water in at the edges: cuffs, where hood seals, or doesn't seal, around your face and neck, etc. The cuffs can "leak" if you're using trekking poles, and you hands are higher than your elbows, letting water drain off your hands down your arms.) But the fabric panels do a great job of keeping water out.

Unfortunately, if you're walking, those fabric panels also do a great job of keeping water (aka "sweat") in. Many reviewers who complain of being wet in spite of the raingear are, in fact, wet when they take it off because it can't pass sweat out as fast as your body generates it. Also, in a heavy rain, the water on the outside of the fabric drastically reduces the ability of "breathable" fabric to pass water out because it blocks the "holes." That's not the raingear's fault. I've experienced that effect, too, and you're just as wet, but it's not because your raingear leaked. The only solution is to slow down your pace, so you don't actively sweat. Sometimes it works, sometimes not so much. In a heavy rain in July, you can't even stand still and keep from sweating.

There is no perfect raingear. I do know that, so far, my Outdoor Research Foray has performed better than any other I've used - it doesn't mean I'm bone-dry after walking in the rain, but I'm much less damp that with anything else I've used. (And I have used the Precip. I don't recall any leakage, but I know that perspiration didn't pass outward nearly as well as it does in the Foray.)


Edited by Glenn Roberts (03/20/15 07:25 PM)

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#189780 - 03/20/15 07:48 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: Glenn Roberts]
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I have yet to research the OR products. I just took 15 minutes to look at the Foray and it looks great! Little on the heavy side with 15.5 ounces but still looks awesome! Unfortunately it is not available at REI anymore for me to try on. Damnit!

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#189781 - 03/20/15 08:18 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
KyHiker40 Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Louisville, KY
I think the take away from this is not to obsess over rain gear. Rain gear will perform differently for different people in different climates, depending on how much you sweat and how hard you hike. Just buy a quality jacket from a quality manufacturer and be prepared for less than perfect results.

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#189782 - 03/20/15 08:25 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: KyHiker40]
PurpleHaze Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I don't think anyone is obsessing. Just utilizing this thread for discussion to make the best informed decision possible.

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#189783 - 03/20/15 09:45 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
OR makes a lighter rain jacket called the Helium II, which uses Pertex instead of GoreTex; I've never used Pertex, so I can't tell you much about it. I've seen others on this site praise it, though. The jacket weighs 6 ounces, and REI carries it (though iI didn't check for in-store availability - could you have it shipped to the store, and return it on the spot with no shipping charge?)

Besides REI, is there a local independent shop near you? If so, they might carry OR.

Hmmm... maybe I need to visit them tomorrow on my way to the trailhead, and take a look at the Helium stuff.... smile


Edited by Glenn Roberts (03/20/15 10:41 PM)

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#190982 - 06/17/15 11:34 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
bob1900 Offline
member

Registered: 06/16/15
Posts: 19
I picked up a $30 rain jacket and i regret

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#191012 - 06/18/15 11:01 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
milan Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/27/14
Posts: 2
Very happy with my Marmot Aegis.

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#194470 - 03/23/16 09:52 PM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: OregonMouse]
bobito9 Offline
member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 408
I re-opened this thread from last year because I'm looking for a new raincoat for the upcoming season. Anyhow, I saw this post of Andrew Skurka's that Oregon Mouse passed along: interesting, and he pretty much says what I have come to believe, which is that you're either going to get wet from sweat or from rain (or both) and you're never really truly going to be dry if you backpack in the rain. You have a little better chance if the jacket is new, but the fancy "waterproof-breathable" finishes are pretty much over-rated and have never lasted that long on every jacket I've ever owned. I've been using Marmot Pre-cips in recent years, and I like them ok, probably will get another, but I don't expect to be truly dry if it rains much, the best I can hope for are dry clothes for tonight and a sunny day tomorrow, and I strike out at that, too, sometimes.
No, I think the best rain gear is keeping a stiff upper lip. smile

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#194471 - 03/24/16 06:44 AM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: bobito9]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
The best, or should I say driest, rain gear, for my wife and I , has been poncho/tarps; because they allow so much air flow. The huge downsides are how poorly they stay on in wind , how they restrict the view of the trail in front of you, the increased wetness using poles and how you can actually trip over them. My wife uses a Marmot Precip and EMS rain pants , I have an LL BEAN stowaway jacket and SD rain pants. Main function is to keep the wind at bay and stay warm and damp. What we have now is just iterations of other products that worked about the same. We have had good results where it rains hard for a short time and our pace goes to a crawl (not that it exceeds that, anyway). Mostly, we try to walk safely and have a dry set to wear in the tent. If you don't tend to sweat much you'd also tend to rave about how well your W/B fabric performs. My wife fares much better than me on that score.
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#194475 - 03/24/16 09:42 AM Re: Rain jackets, what do you use? [Re: PurpleHaze]
AlanL Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/16
Posts: 36
Loc: North Carolina
I use the Patagonia Houdini - very light. I use it backpacking as well as running in the rain. Runs $50-$99.

Here is a review.
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Wind-Breaker-Jacket-Reviews/Patagonia-Houdini

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