I didn't have time to respond to this properly before, but I have to say you are a real inspiration for me, and Good for You!!!

For those of you who don't know JPete he's a senior member here who grew up in the Ozarks not far from where I live. You really need to know some history of the area to have some perspective on that, but suffice it say that living here, especially where he did, was tough back then. Everyday was akin to what survivalists try to practice these days.

JPete's also an accomplished tru-hiker, which means he's done more miles on just one of his trips than I have in my life. I won't reveal his age, but if I can reach it and do a +2k hike on what he calls a rough trail I'd be bragging my pair of asses off to everyone!

Man, I wish I could've been there with you, and I know when you say rough trail you ain't kidding either. I think I might do a night or two myself here soon. My wife is talking about taking off for a few days to visit family and friends up north and our son is living here with us for a bit so he can take care of things.

This is past the end of season for me but it's been pretty nice out and the ticks aren't too awful bad this year, the chiggers ain't out yet, and we've had some good rain so the creeks are running pretty strong.

Things are as lush and green as I've ever seen them so the bears should be finding food way better tasting than me. Shoot, I could probably get out with a pack pretty close to 20 lbs this time of year. I don't need much more than the clothes on my back to stay warm.

If I do get all bit up and thumped on by a bear I'll blame it on you for inspiring me

billstephenson:

This would maybe be better in PM, but since it's on the open board, maybe I should respond here. Thank you for the accolades, but I think there is some exaggeration involved.

First, my age is no secret. I've used it here before. I'm 78, and so are several other posters (at least some of whom are more active than I am).

Yeah, growing up in the Ozarks was a bit primitive and isolated, but one can say that for much of the country in those days. I don't feel deprived.

One misunderstanding that has shown up here before: Yes, I enjoy hiking long distances (or did), but I tend to do it fairly slowly and with a lot of stops to smell the flowers. I am not in the speed demon category. It's those beautiful places that make this worthwhile. I think most posters here relate to that.

As far as the chiggers are concerned, if you don't have enough, I think I still have a few leftover all these years later (mostly from picking blackberries).

I know how pretty it can be in that area (I think you are not too far from the trout hatchery at Roaring River) and I think you should definitely get out and enjoy it. I never saw or heard tell of bears down yonder, so I think they're a myth. Besides, almost every bear I've actually seen on the trail was some dark fur going the other way, fast.

Take care, enjoy those hills, and thanks. Oh and I should note that I am much inspired by the work you have done on adapting to disabilities, by your inventive approach to gear ans weather, and by the way you moderate this board. best, jcp

From one 78-year-old to another--Congratulations, and keep going! There's a third our age on this board who has revealed his age, Pika--I don't know if there are any others. Pika is far more active than I am, and I'm looking forward to following his JMT journal.

Oregon Mouse,

Thanks. I did know that it was you and Pika to whom I referred, but wasn't sure just how public that information was. Did not know that Pica was doing JMT. I certainly wish him well.

I had once considered doing the AT again at 80 (did it at 60 and at 70), but the chemo has probably ended that dream. A couple of months ago I could barely walk.

Incidentally, I think we're all still missing Hysson. Best wishes on your search for a new companion. I think it must be a bit difficult to hike again without him. I look forward to hearing about how you train a new companion.

best, jcp

I considered a PM, but what you've accomplished in the last 6 months is greater than any thru-hike and truly inspirational.

It's true that primitive and isolated was not so uncommon 70 years ago, but having grown up in a city where many Ozarkers came to find work my own experience was quite different and a lot less laborious, and I knew that even back then. There weren't a lot of farmers ploughing fields with draft animals where I grew up when you were here.

Roaring River is an incredibly beautiful spot, but I've only been there once. My daughter and I were car camping and just cruising around looking for a good spot. It was the year after the Brad Pitt movie "A River Runs Through It", and, I found out, opening weekend for trout. I thought a made a wrong turn and ended up at Mono Lake in the Sierras because the fly fishermen were elbow to elbow cracking their rods like whips and snapping off flies by the hundreds. I've been meaning to go back there ever since, but still haven't made it yet.

I spoke too soon about the chiggers. I was in my garden planting some seed two days ago and all day yesterday bites kept appearing all over me. I'm one itchy, scratchy, bit up hillbilly today.

I planted about a dozen native blackberry bushes years ago but trees have grown up around them and they don't get enough sun to produce much now. This really bummed me out because the trees are too nice to cut down, but then about 4 years ago I found a wild raspberry bush trying to grow in our front yard where an old Lilac bush had died out. I let it alone to grown among the dead branches of the Lilac and this year the roots found their zone and it's gotten huge. Right now it just loaded with berries and they should be ripening up soon. I'm pretty excited about that.

As for bears, according the latest reports they've now got me completely surrounded!!

Pete, I am glad Bill posted about you. I think too many people think hiking is just for kids. Colin Fletcher was a great inspiration to many of us and was hiking many miles for decades until he got hit by a car. I'm sure the irony of that isn't lost on those of use who learned a lot of what we know about camping and hiking from reading The Complete Walker.

Speed isn't everything. I also think too many hikers put too much emphasis on miles, as if that means something important. Walking a long ways proves only one thing-you can walk a long ways. As Steven Wright says "Anywhere is within walking distance, if you've got the time." (Excluding of course, places like Hawaii, but you get the idea.)

Tom D,

Thanks for your kind words. I agree with your evaluation that walking long miles just proves you can walk long miles. When I started each of my thru hikes I said I was going to walk north until I got tired of it. I just never got tired of it. As I said earlier, I backpack to hike, and love being out for long enough to unwind and get into the spirit of it (and of the woods). My longest day ever was 26 miles, and most have been in the 12-14 range. For me it's the time out there that matters, not the miles.

Nice to see you on this thread. I always figured you had to be somewhere close to the same age group but not sure.

Take care, happy trails, jcp

billstephenson,

Wow, that bear map is scary. There are obviously a whole lot more bears in that area than there were when I grew up. It's almost (but not quite) enough to make me rethink the Highlands trail.

Yeah, trout season is not the best time to visit Roaring River. The good thing is that almost all the other visitors are at the water. The trails, up and behind the hatchery, are almost completely devoid of people and they are nice!

Best, jcp

There's a lot more of everything really. There are even elk now not far from where you grew up, and a hunting season on them too.

There's a section of the OHT where it merges with the BRT along Richland Creek that has the highest population of bears in AR. I've spent a lot of time there but still have never seen one. I've still never seen one here either, though one hung out for awhile eating corn from my neighbor's deer feeder just a few hundred yards away.

I do believe I've seen panthers (mountain lions) twice though near our place, but just a glimpse of them. We've got so many deer where we live that they don't really pay much attention to us. I see them in our yard all the time. Back in the `40s they were practically extinct in Missouri. According the Dept of Conservation there was one small herd about 10 miles from where we live and another up near Kansas City, for a total of, I think I recall, less than 40. Now each year there are more than 40,000 taken in Missouri alone during hunting season with probably around 5000 taken within a 50 mile radius of us. Northern Arkansas is just densely populated with them.

Shoot, we've got lots of beaver, and now we even got lots of otters here. I've seen them in the creeks, lakes, and rivers from south of where you lived to north of me, and people hunt and trap them here.

And from what the Dept of Conservation says, we have more wild turkey here now than there's been in over 300 hundred years.

It really is a pretty astounding comeback story and you have to give the locals credit. For the most part they all join in the conservation efforts and it's really paid off for them. Since I've been here the bear, elk, otter, beaver, and even mountain lions have all made substantial comebacks. We still have a few that will shoot everything within their sites no matter the season, but their numbers have really dwindled down to the point where it's hardly measurable.

They held a "Champions Bass Masters Tournament" on Bull Shoals Lake here last year I think. They started just a couple miles from where we live. As I recall the guys fishing said at the weigh-in that they caught more total weight here than anywhere else all year. They didn't get the biggest fish, but big ones are in there for sure.

It's really a pretty good time to be here now. I'd love to hike the OHT with you. Keep me in mind if decide to come. I'll drop whatever I'm doing to hang with you.

Bill, That's truly an amazing story, and wonderful to hear. I have a very hard time imagining the people in that area being interested in wildlife conservation. Even the poor coons were in more or less constant danger!

I mentioned once before that we would occasionally hear a mountain lion (and immediately gather the goats into the corral), but never saw one nor any evidence up close. There were some deer then. I know because neighbors poached them anytime they found one, but I only saw one and I didn't have my rifle.

Never saw a bear, and never heard any rumours of any.

What you are telling me reminds me of my joy when I came over a hill top on a visit, and everywhere I looked, all I saw was green (improved pasture, it had previously been all brown sage grass--properly brome sedge--and three herds of good black cattle, the kind you can actually make money on. That was when I was doing a story on the then fairly new Tyson chicken operation (source of the manure for improving pasture and of cash money to buy good cattle) in about 1964. There was also electricity. I knew then that the country was changed for the good and for good.

Interesting side point: With electricity came radio and then TV. Last time I was down there, the dialect was almost completely gone.

Best, and thanks, jcp

so interesting to read this post regarding your experiences in my home country. I grew up in Taney County (Cedar Creek) and graduated from Forsyth High School. Rockaway Beach was a favorite haunt for summer nights, listening and dancing to great bands at the Pavillion. I backpacked through the Hercules Glades area long before it was an established area. Truly, backpacking was not a popular pasttime in those days. REI was the only source of gear and I couldnt wait to get out of the Ozarks to the mountains of the west. JPete, you predate me by a few years, I graduated HS in 1969 and left Missouri in 1975. Beautiful country, the hills of Taney County.

Three of our kids graduated from Forsyth High School. I'm sure we must know some of the same people.

You know any of the Brittains (Mike, Sandy, Gary)? Their family farm is just a mile or two down the road from me, right across from the mouth of Cedar Creek. I know some of the Persinger's that live in Cedar Creek. A couple of them teach at Forsyth HS now. All good folks.

Around here, Cedar Creek is considered pretty wild still and the families that have lived there for generations still have a pretty solid reputation for not being the kind you'd want to mess with.

Yes, Cedar Creek has always been a place not entirely welcoming to outsiders. I do recall the Brittains, I believe they were good friends with my parents. The Persingers were old family friends, Truman and Agnes ran the store and post office for many years. Rick and Brenda went to high school with me and built their place back on the Piney Creek bluff behind where I grew up on the old Prather place. Colonel Prather was one of the founding members of the original Bald Knobbers. Our house was down on Hogan Creek. I havent been back to the place since my dad passed in 1989.

I know Rick pretty well, saw him last weekend. He's a teacher at the Highschool, I think he might be a Principal now. Those Persinger's are some big boys!

A good friend of mine, Charley, grew up near the mouth of Hogan Creek and still lives there. I can't remember his last name for the life of me right now but I'm sure you must know him too. We all hang out at k-dock marina and on the lake in the Summer. The Persinger's have a really cool old houseboat they restored there and Charlie just got one of those awesome old White River dock houses that have been around since before Bull Shoals dam was built.

There's still only the one general store out there, and homes are still far apart by urban standards, but the entire world has come to Cedar Creek now in the form of the internet and cell phones. The kids growing up there now are just as culturally savvy as kids in LA or NY now and they've got the added advantage of having what's still pretty much a wilderness area and the most pristine lake in all of Missouri for their backyard.

You don't hear kids complain much about growing up here now. They don't feel like they're missing out on everything anymore. Some of the kids I know that grew up out there are incredible artists. There's a studio there that has created dioramas for museums all over the US and probably around the world and the art they've created there is just fantastic. They've hired locals to build it all too and many of them have gone on to create their own art.

Speaking of Baldknobbers, there's a new movie being made here about them now. It's an indie so the production value isn't amazing but it should be fun to watch. They've been shooting for over a year now all over the area. A good friend of mine, who's a local GIS specialist in real life, started out as an extra but ended up with a pretty good part in it and I think he's turned out to be one of the better actors in it. In this trailer he's playing "Cogburn"

What always upset me living down there was the stereotype that some folks so willingly accepted of the 'Hillbilly'. I worked at Shepherd of the Hills Farm, and Silver Dollar City summers and when Paul Henning (producer of the Beverly Hillbillies) was active someone put a sign up on Dewey Bald Mountain that said 'Mount Henning'. Really PO'd my mother who told me to remove it when I had a chance.

Baldknobbers have a complex history, and I hope that these folks get it right. Some of the old mountain folk took that history very seriously and Nat Kinney and Colonel Prather were considered heroic figures. Unfortunately the laws of entropy often prevail and chaos and lawlessness prevail.

Chiggers and ticks, glad I didn't know anything about Lyme disease when I was growing up. Blackberry season was my most hated time, but my dad drug me out into the woods with a bucket and I carried home chiggers by the battalion. The only good thing to come out of Vietnam was the insect repellents developed.

Mr. JPete, congratulations on your recent hike. I am trying to get back into hiking shape, recently returned to New Mexico after too many years in Houston. Miserable place but the restaurants, the sailing, and the symphony made it bearable. Just not a good place to be outdoors. Slow and steady.. seems like I have been that way since I started backpacking 40 years ago. Founded a group called "Ozark Packing Company". Very exclusive and mysterious to the uninitiated.

shuddleson,

Amazingly small world! I'm not sure I've been in the new Forsyth, but I certainly was in the original one. Gas required cash money (couldn't trade for it) so we didn't tour around a whole lot, but I remembers stopping there on the way to see the work on the then-just-started Norfork Dam, and years later shot pictures at a Missouri (photo) Workshop held there (actually, that may have been the new one now that I think about it) about 1959 or so.

It's funny, the minute I saw Forsyth, I thought about Bald Knobers. Two of them were killed in a skirmish near Alpena, Ark. (where I lived) and are buried in the very back of a little churchyard under completely blank headstones. At least that was the local lore, and I could find no evidence that those two stones had ever been marked.

I commented to bill in an earlier post about blackberries and chiggers (at least you could get the ticks off if you could find them). We tied out pants legs around the tops of the high shoes we wore, and sprinkled ourselves with sulfur,but that never stopped a chigger.

As for Shepherd of the Hills, I'm sure you've seen the Sammy Lane dock at Taneycomo (Rockaway Beach? Have I got this right?).

bill, you must be further east than I thought you were if your kids went to Forsyth.

best, jcp

billstephenson,

Bill, I discovered where your bears came from. There was an article in the Missouri Alumni Magazine talking about the "wonderful" renewal of the bear population along the Mo/Ark border. Seems they were essentially wiped out at the time I lived there, but that they were reintroduced some years later and are now considered to be "doing well".

Thought you'd like to know!!

Incidentally, I'm afraid I've delayed my reintroduction to the trail. Fell down the back steps Friday night. It looks like I went ten rounds with one of your bears, but the miracle
is that in spite of years of prednisone, I broke nothing and am actually hoping to continue with my trainer tomorrow. Just hoping I didn't trigger a relapse.

Also, I've been away for awhile. Grandkid's graduation, etc., then back to find no internet, and it took a week to get back up. I was not ignoring people. best, jcp

My first visits to Forsyth were in the mid 50's and I think that Old Forsyth had been moved by then. There was a restaurant called the "Dinner Bell" and the "Fox Café" that were favorites of mine. I had no idea that the Photo Workshops went that far back. In 68 or 69 I had some photos displayed that Cliff Edom of U of M saw and commented favorably on. That resulted in my attending MU my freshman year in hopes of studying Photo Journalism under him. Couldn't afford the tuition there after the first year, and ended up at SMS (whatever it is called now) and transferring to Geology. Still shoot hobby photos though.

Sammy Lane boat dock is in (I believe) Branson and is still going strong. I have stayed away from Branson as much as possible since the 60's. It makes me sad on what it has become. I have too many memories of the way it was.

shuddleson,

Again, very small world. I did take PJ with Cliff, and years later, after I started teaching, I did my masters there with Angus MacDougall (who I met at a workshop and later worked for at Harvester World).

I went to high school in Springfield, part of the time at Greenwood. My mom worked at SMS.

I remember Branson when it had about three occupied buildings (Eureka Springs as well). Camped once on a gravel bar where they were drilling test holes on the site of what is now the dam there.

best, jcp

The hillbilly stereotype has been both a curse and a blessing. It has helped tourism, and at the same time kept people from invading the area, but it's really always been a myth.

I think the book "Shepherd of the Hills" did a lot to promote that, though not on purpose. It portrays locals in an accurate light but it's the ruffians that people focused on. The opening chapter of that book is some of the best writing I've ever seen. It describes walking through the forest here in a way that's really draws you in.

So did Snuffy Smith and Little Abner comics, in a comical way of course.

But it's still kept alive today with movies like "Winter's Bone", which was a pretty good movie but it has one of the most ridicules endings ever for a serious drama and doesn't accurately portray the area at all. The comments in the NY Times review of the movie were pretty hilarious and proved the misconceptions continue on.

If you read the "Turnbo Manuscripts" (google it) you get a real feel for what it was like in the Baldknobber days, and before, during, and after the war in general. Some of the stories are just heartbreaking. Things were a mess here back then. Oddly, there isn't any mention of "Baldknobbers" in them. Not one.

Back in our day parents did tick checks every night when you came inside. Most still do here, but no so much in other places. I get bit countless times a year, but I kill all ticks that get on me and check every itch I get. I found the best ever anti-itch cream at the Forsyth Drug store years ago (used to be Powell's) and that stuff has been a life saver. They mix it themselves there and it's the only stuff that really works. Permethrin treated clothes work too. I don't like using that, but it's the only way I get a chance to be out in the thick of it without scratching for days.

Dang!

Sorry to hear about the tumble. That just sucks.

My neighbor told me a couple days ago that he saw a bear in the middle of H Hwy. Said it was a "Big shiny black bear", so I may see one here yet. I might have to get out more though

Sorry to say that Sammy Lane Resort is no longer. The "Branson Landing" swallowed it up along with a lot of the rest of that area. There may still be a Sammy Lane marina, but I'm not sure about that, and if there is it's not the same.

Forsyth hasn't changed too much though. They got a McD's and a Sonic Burger a few years ago, the School has expanded a bit, and there's a new Courthouse and Jail. I think I read this years graduating HS class was 86 students.

The "Dinner Bell" is gone and the "Fox Café" was here when I got here, but I do think they've closed since. We do have a great BBQ joint now, "Fat Daddy's", and a couple small strip shopping centers have opened up on the north side of the old downtown. "Glen's Groceries" has closed. I think they hired more high school kids than any business that's ever been there.

But really, Forsyth hasn't change too much in the past 20 years since I've been here, and it didn't change much in the 20 before that either.

When I was growing up, bears were rarely seen. They were called 'Arkansas Travelers', suggesting they were just passing through coming or going from Arkansas. I actually saw an elk once, Dad and I were fishing from the old boat down on Bee Creek one evening and saw it up the slope from the water. That whole side of the White River and Bull Shoals Lake were an old private game preserve, later donated to the Conservation Department. The Conservation Department planted Canada Geese there back in the early 70's, some of the very first to be established. At one time, the feral goats could be seen along the Piney Creek Bluff and they were fare game for the table. Eventually, thats where they all ended up.

The elk are still there, that's the Mincy conservation area now. That's also where \ one of the original herd of deer were that I mentioned.

That's a pretty area too. I've hiked there a lot. The area where the elk are is fenced off and closed to the public, but there's still a few thousand acres that's open and you can occasionally see elk from the Lake. There's even a nesting pair of Bald Eagles there now!

Mincy.. I remember now. Its been a lot of years since I have been in that part of Taney County. It is a beautiful place, I have wonderful memories of the morning fog in the valleys, the mist on the water below Powersite Dam, just the smell of the place. But its the high desert of New Mexico for me now, my chosen home. Thanks for the trip down Memory Lane, Messrs. Stephenson and JPete.