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#184223 - 04/01/14 05:07 AM looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR
maksay Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Switzerland
Hello! I am looking for an ultralight tent for a backpacking trip in the mountains of Georgia (Svanetian Mountain Range + possibly Mount Layla, staying in a tent at ~ 3.2k most, a little below 0 C).

I am looking for a lightweight tent for 3 or, better, 4 person for various conditions, including strong wind, rain and some snow.

My main priorities are:
1). Ability to handle snowy conditions
2). Weight
2). Ventilation \ Condensation problems
3). Enough size for 4(3) 80-100 liter backpacks in the vestibule(s)
4). $

After some searching I made the following shortlist:

1). Hilleberg Nallo 4 (ouch, pricey. GT is not an option since it's heavier and it would be harder to find a place for it).

2). Big Agnes Copper Spur UL4 (lighter, somewhat cheaper, haven't found many reviews though. I'm 6.1, maybe fitting four of the same size might be a problem. Also, smaller vestibule than Nalo.)

3). MSR Mutha Hubba 3 HP / 4 NX (Heard it is not so durable, not sure how NX would behave under bad conditions, not sure for the space inside 3 HP - but cheapest)

Any suggestions regarding those 3? Other options are also appreciated.

Thanks, smile

Andrii


Edited by maksay (04/01/14 05:34 AM)

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#184225 - 04/01/14 10:35 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: maksay]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Andrii - If you wait to purchase a tent until you get to the U.S., you'll pay less money than what you'd pay in Europe. On the Hilleberg Nallo 4 for example.

I am usually more conservative when it comes to my tent, sleeping bag, etc. Because a failure could be catastrophic. With that in mind, I have used Hilleberg tents for the past 12 years and have never regretted it.

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#184232 - 04/01/14 07:03 PM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: CJennings]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6624
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
CJennings, I don't mean to embarras you, but I believe that Andril is going to the mountains of Georgia, the nation in the Caucasus Mountains, not Georgia the US state!

Unfortunately this is not a place that many of us go. I'm therefore just guessing that because the Caucasus are quite a bit higher than our US mountains, the conditions will be more severe than, say, the Alps or Rockies. I hope that those more familiar with the Caucusus will clarify this.

If you'll be camping above treeline in truly adverse conditions (high winds, frequent severe storms, etc.), I'd go with Hilleberg or perhaps Stephenson (a similar hoop tent). The other two on your list are not designed for such severe conditions. They will be fine, though, if you will always be camping in sheltered areas.

One way to determine if the tent is big enough is to check the specifications, especially the floor measurements, on the manufacturer's website and use tape (painters tape or masking tape) to mark out the area on your floor. Then see if everyone in your party will fit comfortably in the taped-off space!

Andril, it would be wonderful if you would post a report on this forum after your trip. This is a part of the world that few of us get to, and I know that everyone here would love to learn more about it and see some photos!


Edited by OregonMouse (04/02/14 12:17 PM)
Edit Reason: correct spelling
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#184241 - 04/02/14 03:05 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: OregonMouse]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
OM is right on about Georgia. There's "Georgia On My Mind" then there's "Back in the USSR" Georgia.

And here is Mt. Layla-
Mt. Layla

For Mt. Layla, I'd look at a Hilleberg or other quality winter tent. In general, not cheap, though.

Where would you be buying? If in the EU, I would look at Terra Nova, made in the UK
Terra Nova

North Face VE25- a great tent, a bit heavy, but pretty much the gold standard for mountaineering-
VE25

Bask - never seen one in person, made in Russia, so might be cheaper than others-
Bask

A good US brand tent is the Mountain Hardwear line of Trango tents. I have a different brand, but similar design to the Trango 2. Very sturdy design-
Mountain Hardwear

The Big Agnes is not a winter tent. Not what I would want on Mt. Layla judging from the video.

If you look to the left of the page, you will see categories of gear. Look for Winter Camping, then click on Shelter. There is a list of tent makers, including Hilleberg. A good place to start comparing features and prices (in US dollars in the US)





Edited by TomD (04/02/14 03:30 AM)
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#184244 - 04/02/14 10:45 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: maksay]
maksay Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Switzerland
CJennings, although I am not planning to go to the U.S., I will probably ask a friend to bring me the tent he buys there, since it is a lot cheaper, thanks for the idea smile

OregonMouse, thanks for the Warmlite suggestion. Although after looking at a number of reviews and battles Hilleberger VS Warmlite I guess I won't choose the latter, due to condensation issues and weird vestibule system. General opinion also prefers the former, it seems.

Regarding the report, it seems interesting. It will also be my first time in Georgia mountains and I will try to post some photos and reports afterwards. Hopefully, I will not forget that until the mid-July.

Additional thanks for the tip about tape and measuring the size, will probably experiment today.

TomD, thanks for the links and the list. As I mentioned above, I have an option to buy in the U.S., which is probably cheaper for most of the tents. Currently going though the list. However, the more I go, the more I like Nallo, as it is lighter and can also be used in less harsh conditions as well, for example, together with the Mesh tent.

The Mountain Hardwear EV3 also looks interesting but I think I never used single wall tents and feel a little afraid that they won't be warm enough.

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#184245 - 04/02/14 11:20 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: maksay]
maksay Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Switzerland
Hm, this is interesting. I found this tent just now. Wonder what the quality is.

*Price is actually in UAH, not EUR, it is just some translate bug. 3.8 kg VS 3.6 kg of Nallo 4 and 257 USD (currently UAH to USD is really low due to the situation) vs 825 USD. I'll certainly take a closer look.

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#184246 - 04/02/14 11:46 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: maksay]
ETSU Pride Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 931
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Originally Posted By maksay

The Mountain Hardwear EV3 also looks interesting but I think I never used single wall tents and feel a little afraid that they won't be warm enough.


I don't have any experience with mountaineering style tent, but I can't see how a double wall tent can be warmer than a single wall tent? There are no insulation in the nylons used to make these tents.. All your insulations comes from sleep pad, sleeping bag, and clothing. The only warmth I can fathom is that the tent provide is wind protection.


Edited by ETSU Pride (04/02/14 01:39 PM)
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#184248 - 04/02/14 11:55 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: maksay]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 938
Loc: Torrance, CA
Originally Posted By maksay
...
The Mountain Hardwear EV3 also looks interesting but I think I never used single wall tents and feel a little afraid that they won't be warm enough.


The tent shouldn't really keep you warm. That is the purpose of your sleeping bag and pad. In true severe winter conditions, it might be difficult to keep snow out of a single wall tent. That is when you want a true 4-season double wall tent.

I have to general suggestions. 1) Consider two smaller tents. You might be able to get two smaller tents for less weight than one big one. and 2) since you have access to the US market look into some cottage manufacturers we have like tarptent

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#184249 - 04/02/14 12:25 PM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: ETSU Pride]
maksay Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Switzerland
To me it seems that:
1). The temperature in the tent is equal to the temperature outside when it is set up
2). Temperature is much higher when people have stayed there for some time
3). Temperature gets lower if it it windy and wind accesses (just a little bit) the insides of the tent
4). Subjectively (and maybe this is where I'm wrong) it seems that 2 layers create a less penetrable wind protection - just because.

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#184250 - 04/02/14 12:38 PM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: BZH]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6624
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
For those conditions, the only one of Tarptent's many excellent tents I'd consider is their Scarp 2 which is a 4-season tent. You'd also need the extra external pole, so you need to factor in the weight and price of that item (multiplied by 2, since it's a 2-person tent). (Their Moment DW with the external pole would also work, but that's a solo tent.) I still would go for Hilleberg or a similar 4-season mountaineering tent, though. (I am not familiar with other European makes so can't judge there, but I suggest that you investigate.)

I very much doubt that two 2-person tents would be lighter per person than one 4-person tent, assuming a similar degree of weather-resistance, but it is easier to find suitable sites for two smaller tents rather than one large one.

I agree with those above who say it isn't the tent that keeps you warm. Nylon walls don't insulate; they only block the wind. One thickness does just as well for that as two. In a double-wall tent, the inner tent has to "breathe" for ventilation, so has no coating and cannot be windproof. However, you need a 4-season tent both to hold up under the weight of snow accumulation and to block blowing snow (spindrift). A single wall tent requires quite a bit of open area (with netting) on the outside perimeter for ventilation, and that won't keep out high winds and blowing snow!

As you've noted, you need to keep the currency exchange rate and shipping cost in mind before deciding whether to buy in the US or closer to home.

Thanks, Tom, for finding that beautiful video! Too bad the view of the distant mountains was so fleeting! That definitely looks like a place for a 4-season mountaineering tent!


Edited by OregonMouse (04/02/14 12:54 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#184259 - 04/02/14 09:43 PM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: OregonMouse]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
That was the only video I saw with a quick search. My guess is that with a longer search, there are more.

Single wall tents are what high altitude climbers usually use, aside from at base camp where big double wall tents seem to be common. This is based on my reading and looking at pictures, not personal experience. The idea is that they are quicker to set up and lighter than a double wall tent.

My tent is a double wall tent. The inner tent has some big mesh panels that can be covered with zip-in panels and the outer tent is solid. The outer tent (commonly called a "rain fly") is a heavier material than the inner tent. I don't believe it would be any warmer than a good single wall tent.
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Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#184263 - 04/03/14 12:12 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: OregonMouse]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
CJennings, I don't mean to embarrass you, but I believe that Andril is going to the mountains of Georgia, the nation in the Caucasus Mountains, not Georgia the US state!


Hahaha! Thanks for setting me straight! (In a tactful way, for that matter). Guess I didn't read his post carefully enough. blush

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#184288 - 04/05/14 02:38 AM Re: looking for UL 3-4p tent: Hilleberg/Big Agnes/MSR [Re: CJennings]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
No worries, I've heard far funnier mixups than that one. One of my favorites is this-
When I was in high school, my dad was in the military and he was being transferred from Texas to South America. When my sister told a friend we were moving to Bolivia, her friend said, "Really, what part of Texas is that in?"
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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