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#183991 - 03/19/14 11:05 PM I'm a completely green and need help
Loren dude Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Central NY
First before I go into this, I just wanted to say neat forum. smile

I have never backpacked before. My only camp experiences are car and paddle with some portages growing up. Both are completely different from backpacking so this is all new.

So I guess let me start with what I have, what I was thinking and then ask my questions.

Current gear list start:

1. Cook kit, consists of a stainless mug and pot that nests within itself and a msr pocket rocket totals 16.6oz without a stuff sack and 22.5oz with my big made out of paracord one.

1a. I didn't have a full fuel canister to weigh. The canister says 7.4oz full though.

2. Hammock setup is ENO double nest with their atlas straps. Straps are 11.4oz and hammock is 20oz as they weighed for me. I also have a milsurp m1966 hammock that comes in at 20.4oz with all the necessary rigging, however I'm worried about the trees and comfort of the design of it. I have not tried it out yet though.

3. 8 stakes 11.4oz

4. Sleeping bag is a -40 cheapo that weighs 32.6oz

5. Headlamp with extra batteries is 1.6oz

6. Approx 25ft of 550 cord 3.5oz

7. I have several options for cutting tools, but I was wondering what is usually necessary. I have options from small folders all the way up to large knives suitable for battening and prying. The weight of the biggest knife I have is 23.1oz with a small pocket sharpener and ferro rod (my preferred method for fire). My middle fixed knife is 11oz. My lightest knife is a small folder buck knife at 2oz though. I also have a small hatchet that could double for all cutting tasks, but it's kind of bulky as well at 20.2oz.

Things I need, or think I need. Stuff that I need help on.:

1. A backpack, and I have no idea where to start or what to look for. I mean I'm totally clueless. This is what I need the most help with.

2. Rainfly. I was thinking of either keeping with the eno thing and getting their fly or I was looking into milsurp ponchos as they double as shelter and hammock cover. Modern ones are made from ripstop as far as I know. A poncho would be a little cheaper as well. I'm thinking it probably heavier though but not by a lot.

3. Pretty much anything to do with water. I have a 1L bladder and that's it.

4. Anything else you might think I need.

I doubt I will want to ever camp in the winter here in NY so I guess call this a spring summer setup. Possibly early fall. I want to get out with my in laws up in the ADK this season.


EDIT: Purchased a bug net, 15.2oz.


Edited by Loren dude (03/20/14 03:57 PM)

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#183994 - 03/19/14 11:28 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: Loren dude]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Quote:


1. Cook kit, consists of a stainless mug and pot that nests within itself and a msr pocket rocket totals 16.6oz without a stuff sack and 22.5oz with my big made out of paracord one.

This is a good start - you could probably lighten it up by taking a cheap plastic cup, or one of those little disposable
ziploc containers in place of the stainless cup. 6 oz for a
stuff sack seems enormous - put it in a plastic bag of an apprpriate size, or buy a lighter one.

Quote:

2. Hammock setup is ENO double nest with their atlas straps. Straps are 11.4oz and hammock is 20oz as they weighed for me. I also have a milsurp m1966 hammock that comes in at 20.4oz with all the necessary rigging, however I'm worried about the trees and comfort of the design of it. I have not tried it out yet though.


ENO's are a good rig. go with that

Quote:

3. 8 stakes 11.4oz

4. Sleeping bag is a -40 cheapo that weighs 32.6oz

5. Headlamp with extra batteries is 1.6oz

if you have an LED headlamp, you probably don't need extra batteries.

Quote:

6. Approx 25ft of 550 cord 3.5oz

Seems like a lot, unless you're planning on tying something up. or making parachutes.. etc.

Quote:

7. I have several options for cutting tools, but I was wondering what is usually necessary. I have options from small folders all the way up to large knives suitable for battening and prying. The weight of the biggest knife I have is 23.1oz with a small pocket sharpener and ferro rod (my preferred method for fire). My middle fixed knife is 11oz. My lightest knife is a small folder buck knife at 2oz though. I also have a small hatchet that could double for all cutting tasks, but it's kind of bulky as well at 20.2oz.


Well, being the master of the stupid question, I'll ask it - what are you planning on cutting?

For most of my backpacking trips I take a very very tiny swiss army knife - like the little one with a blade and a scissors and that's it. some like the leatherman micra. sometimes I instead take a small opinel knife.

For winter trips where I'm burning wood and stuff, I might take a swede saw and a small axe, but then I'm dragging it on a toboggan..


Quote:

Things I need, or think I need. Stuff that I need help on.:

1. A backpack, and I have no idea where to start or what to look for. I mean I'm totally clueless. This is what I need the most help with.


Buy this *LAST* after you get the rest of your gear together and weigh it. Once you tell us how much you'll be carrying for an overnighter and how much volume you need we can give you better advice on this.

Quote:

2. Rainfly. I was thinking of either keeping with the eno thing and getting their fly or I was looking into milsurp ponchos as they double as shelter and hammock cover. Modern ones are made from ripstop as far as I know. A poncho would be a little cheaper as well. I'm thinking it probably heavier though but not by a lot.


a poncho is likely not big enough to cover your hammock. A good choice for a beginner in a hammock is a lightweight silnylon 8x10 tarp that will have enough coverage for you. like this:

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___20069

Quote:

3. Pretty much anything to do with water. I have a 1L bladder and that's it.


A couple 1 liter pop bottles cleaned out work very well. and you proabably want something like aquamira to treat water with.

You probably want something to keep your bum warm in your hammock. You can probably start with a couple of blue foam pads but you will need enough width. sometimes you can find 27 inch wide ones at wal-mart (I use these).

Have a look at a few of the gear lists we post for ideas, and check out the "27 pound 7 day pack" and "18 pound 3 day pack" list on this site.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#183998 - 03/20/14 12:07 AM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: phat]
Loren dude Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Central NY
My stuff sack is just neat that's all, I know it's ridiculously heavy for what it's purpose is. It's made entirely out of paracord and if I had to guess there is probably 80' of it at least so not surprised it's that heavy on it's own. There is no way I would pack with it, I would end up getting a regular nylong pull string instead.

The headlamp is LED so good point.

In terms of cutting... I have no idea. The large stupid heavy knife would easily replace the need for a hatchet for wood processing if we did fires. I'm guessing that most backpacking doesn't involve camp fires?

The idea of the paracord was to replace the crappy ridgline cord I have heard comes with most eno stuff. Honestly it might not even be 25'

Water: Should I look into products like a lifestraw or sawyer mini water filter? I read the sawyer can attach right to disposable water bottles or you can drink from the source with a straw. The website says it weighs 2oz, I don't have one to confirm that though.

I will check out those stickies thanks!


Edited by Loren dude (03/20/14 12:15 AM)

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#183999 - 03/20/14 12:15 AM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: Loren dude]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Loren dude

In terms of cutting... I have no idea. The large stupid heavy knife would easily replace the need for a hatchet for wood processing if we did fires. I'm guessing that most backpacking doesn't involve camp fires?


Chances are if you don't know you'll be fine with the little teeny knife - enough for first aid, cutting cord, opening food bags, etc.

As for fires, it depends where you are. Some places I go I can have fires, lots of places, no. Outside of winter, I don't take a hatchet or anything, I just find small wood, and break it with my hands. hatchets are heavy.

Quote:

The idea of the paracord was to replace the crappy ridgline cord I have heard comes with most eno stuff. Honestly it might not even be 25'


Do this at home then.. smile

Quote:

Water: Should I look into products like a lifestraw or sawyer mini water filter? I read the sawyer can attach right to disposable water bottles or you can drink from the source with a straw. The website says it weighs 2oz, I don't have one to confirm that though.


Lots of people like the sawyer. You can't let it freeze but it sounds like you aren't going out in such temps. aquamira is lighter. personal choice.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#184004 - 03/20/14 08:22 AM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: phat]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
The daks generally have lots of down soft woods, so when I've had fires at one of the established campsites, I didn't need a saw or hatchet, just used my feet and forks of trees to break wood up. I generally keep fires to a minimum, so nothing is bigger than 2" anyway. I'd recommend a filter like the Sawyer squeeze or mini-squeeze and I'd carry the cleaning plunger to back flush it. Some of your sources will be shallow with lots of leaf litter on the bottom, so it assures you won't plug it up and have no way to fix it. Most of the time, you'll have decent water sources with clean water to filter from, but sometimes mud and rain can slow you down and you don't make the camp you intended. The mini-squeeze comes with a 16 oz squeeze bag, I got a liter bag so it goes quicker. I found the squeeze bags worked better than a soda/water bottle, though I use them as water bottles. The Sawyer mini has threads on the inflow, not the outflow. I used a Katadyn Pro for decades in the daks, the Sawyer is much lighter and just as easy. Because of the sediment and leaf litter, I'd rather filter than treat. You'll need some kind of bug netting and some DEET. If you've done a bunch of portages with the black flies out, you know that already. grin
As wet as its been, its gonna be a bad year for bugs.

The 40 degree bag doesn't weigh a lot but the bulk might be a factor in pack size. If it's bulky, you'll have a hard time getting it in a pack that's around 60 liters, a pack size common to light backpacking. It sounds like that's about the size your gear is gravitating towards.

Sleeping pad? Rain gear? Clothes- it can get cool at night, you'll need a jacket/ maybe a base layer or something to wear and also to help extend the range of your bag if you need to.
Then the dreaded bear can-
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7512.html
If you're only going to camp out of the zone you'll still need to hang food to keep it from critters. I've had more trouble from coons and porcupines than bears.
I don't know you're physical conditioning, but the better shape you're in the better off you'll be. I'd avoid taking a heavy pack to start out with. You came to the right place to shed some of the unnecessary weight right from the start. If you get a badly fit pack and overload it, you may not wish to continue.
Try out some sleeping pads, too. You may sleep well on just a foam pad, or you may need an inflatable to get good rest. I use a Thermarest Neo-air x lite, which fits my light pack/comfort level .
Keep asking and researching, Phat already gave you a good start.



Edited by bluefish (03/20/14 08:57 AM)
_________________________
Charlie

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#184007 - 03/20/14 12:23 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: bluefish]
Loren dude Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Central NY
For the price the Sawyer looks fine for my purposes. I'm not THAT concerned with weight.

Bug net is on my list along with the fly, I was just going to keep with the eno thing and go with theirs.

The sleeping bag dimensions are 10" long and roughly 6 1/2" in diameter in it's stuff sack so it's pretty small, not a whole lot bigger than all the eno stuff will be.

In terms of cost I don't mind shelling for things that will make life more comfortable. I would hate for my first trek to be miserable due to gear so if it's worth shelling for something nicer for comfort then so be it (be it pads, packs etc...)

Are bear hangs between 2 limbs not effective? I guess I would defer to whatever my brother in law does for that.

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#184008 - 03/20/14 02:09 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: Loren dude]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
The sawyer is one of the best filters on the market. The lifestraw isn't really a bad filter....it just came out too late. If it came out on the market a few years earlier, and then they improved it...it would probably be better. But, I would pick a sawyer over the lifestraw any day of the week.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#184009 - 03/20/14 02:12 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: Loren dude]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Another thing you can think about is renting gear like your pack and sleeping bag. That will lower the initial cost and give you an idea of what a good one is suppose to be like. And, if you end up not liking the activity, you don't have a bunch of expensive gear you won't use anymore.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#184012 - 03/20/14 07:37 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: finallyME]
Loren dude Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Central NY
I'm not above renting, I just have no idea where I would rent any of this stuff.

TBH I don't think I would want to rent a sleeping bag though.

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#184017 - 03/20/14 08:49 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: Loren dude]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Loren dude

In terms of cost I don't mind shelling for things that will make life more comfortable. I would hate for my first trek to be miserable due to gear so if it's worth shelling for something nicer for comfort then so be it (be it pads, packs etc...)


one of the things that does make you more comfortable is less weight on your back of course. if you don't mind shelling out
for the good stuff, for bag and under you insulation, you could have a peek here: http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/

They sell pretty good hammock friendly quilts, and underquilts. an underquilt from them should fit pretty much any hammock, so even if you upgrade your hammock later you'll be able to keep your quilt - but it's a bit of an investment to make.

But for the first go if you don't wanna spend the bucks, in a hammock you probably just want a wide blue foam pad.

If you can rent a pack (does REI rent stuff down there?) for the first few times, you'll get a better idea of your real needs, and be able to shell out for what you really want. You
could also borrow one from someone for the first few times.

Quote:

Are bear hangs between 2 limbs not effective? I guess I would defer to whatever my brother in law does for that.


I do it this way:

http://www.backpacker.com/skills-how-to-hang-a-bear-bag/slideshows/162

If you have someone experienced with you to help out that's always good.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#184018 - 03/21/14 09:09 AM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: phat]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
You can get rental backpacking gear from Eastern Mountain Sports.
I don't know where in NY you live, but they have quite a few stores sprinkled around.
_________________________
Charlie

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#184019 - 03/21/14 03:23 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: bluefish]
Loren dude Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Central NY
Oh that's good to know. There is a EMS in Syracuse around a half hour away.

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#184020 - 03/21/14 03:41 PM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: Loren dude]
snapper Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 56
Loc: NY
You can also rent equipment from "The Mountaineer" in Keene if you're going to the High Peaks region of the Adirondacks. I'm sure they have a website so you might want to look them up to see what they have to offer besides bear canisters.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...Be well.

snapper

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#184027 - 03/22/14 08:05 AM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: snapper]
Loren dude Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Central NY
I definitely like the idea of renting both a pack and a bear container.

The rest of this stuff in my opinion crosses over into other camping if I want it to though so I don't cringe pulling out my wallet for it to much.

I'll pop back in once I have things in better order. I still need to figure out rain for both sleep and hiking, clothing and first aid.

I downloaded the checklist from REI to give me some ideas.

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#184071 - 03/25/14 09:49 AM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: Loren dude]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
REI rents as well, but I don't know if you have one close.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#184073 - 03/25/14 10:12 AM Re: I'm a completely green and need help [Re: finallyME]
Loren dude Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/19/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Central NY
The only REI stores in NY are located in areas where you can't hike (downstate near NYC). haha


Anyhow, wanted to pop back in and ask if a Kelty Coyote 80 pack medium/large was a good deal at $60 used? Owner says used twice?

I figure with used gear I can resell and not lose any money if I don't like it.


Edited by Loren dude (03/25/14 10:12 AM)

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