Hi, first post here. I've recently gathered some gear for backpacking, and I think I am somewhere between car camping and backcountry camping as far as gear goes. My main concern right now is sleep comfort. I have a three pound single person tent, a Thermorest Neoair Xlite, and a 0 degree non-down sleeping bag. Now the sleeping bag is way heavy, and the Xlite is wonderful for warmth, but I am waking up every two hours almost like clockwork. I can't stay comfortable. I need a better pillow solution. Rolled up clothes aren't cutting it. Also, the rest of my body feels really sore the next day. Any solutions? Full disclaimer: I could lose about 40 lbs. I'm sure that would help some.

Edit: a little bit more about me. I'm 33 y/o 5'3" 170 lbs have some backpacking gear ready. I know I'm not ready for an AT thru hike, but I want to do as much as I can just to start.

Well you came to the right place for advise. You might want to edit your post with a little additional info so the folks here can get you started. Things like your experience level, total pack weight, physical condition and miles traveled might help.

Some folks really take to sleeping out. After beating myself up hiking all day I can literally sleep in tree. As a kid bow hunting I have fallen asleep upright on a stumps and logs and while in a tree stand (which is VERY dangerous in more ways than one). Its at home now that I don't sleep worth a dang. On the other hand my wife at times doesn't fair as well and she is by no means a 'Princes'. Just that she's a lite sleeper and she dreams about bears sometimes
Now being cold is one thing that will keep me and probably 99% of folks from a good night sleep.

As far as a pillow, yeah I would love to have a better set up too but Im not going to carry anything extra, yet. In cooler temps I will take my down puffy sweater and stuff it in my bag hood. That actually works pretty nicely. In warm weather I have tried and failed with clothes and stuff sack. I can usually back roll the hood of my bag to get just enough support for my neck.

Being sore well now IMO that's conditioning or just dang old age in some instances. To save face I blame it on Genetics sometimes cause otherwise my already ever shrinking ego gets blasted when a delightfully pleasant 20 yr. older than me hiker blows by me like I am staked to the trail

good luck, jimmyb

What length pad do you have? How firm do you inflate it? Do you roll up your clothes and put them on the ground, on the pad, or on your shoes? Is the pillow too hard? Too soft? Too thick? Not thick enough? Does it come unrolled in the middle of the night?

Do you wake up because your neck hurts? Or because your hips hurt? or your knees?

All of these things can affect your sleep; let us know what hurts or what is waking you, and we'll start zeroing in.

Have you ruled out general, vague apprehension as a cause of wakefulness?

As a side sleeper I wake up every four hours with a stiff shoulder, roll over, retuck and fall back to sleep. That happens no matter what. Until I use a backpacking hammock - then I fall asleep on my side, roll around while sound asleep all night, end up sleeping on my back comfortably, and wake after 8+ hours refreshed and happy.

The most comfortable backpacking mattress I've ever met is a Big Agnes Q Core. I have an original Thermarest NeoAir, an Exped Downmat 9, and a Ridgerest. In the past I had a Thermarest ProLite.

We could all lose weight (or at least most of us,) don't sweat it. I'm more overweight than you are and I hike a lot, It's just walking after all.

I have two solutions to this. The first one, is a hammock, which I'm sure you'll get lots of advice on. I don't need as much of a pillow in a hammock, and I sleep wonderfully on my side in one.. google up "risk's test hammock" and try one out before comitting to buy one, or take one on a trip. some people do very well in them, and some don't. If you sleep well in a hammock, it's a great solution if you are out and camping where there are trees.

Alas, a lot of the time I spend a lot of time on trips above the treeline, where a hammock for me is not practical. I find my biggest issue too is a pillow. I'm also a weight nazi, and don't like to take extra stuff.. so here's my few tips for it:

1) I take two large platypus bladders for water. normally I have only a liter or a bit on one of them while I am walking. When I get to camp I fill up both ( and treat if necessary). I then cook my dinner, rehydrate and all that stuff. The point is that by the time dinner and all that is done I have an empty 2 or 3 lire platypus that I blow up with air, and put in the middle of my extra clothing and the other platy has my water for the morning and for starting out...)

2) find a not-level campsite, and make sure your feet are downhill. Yes this sounds strange. you'll be perfectly miserable if your feet are higher than your head, but if you set your tent up with your feet slightly downhill (not so much you slide to the bottom of your tent) if you're like me you may find you are more comfortable and not needing quite so much pillow

I do sleep more comfortably in a hammock, for sure, but with enough care I sleep pretty decently on the ground. Don't know if you have the chance to do longer trips or not but trust me, after the first few days it starts to matter less, you'll sleep anyway..

Are you a side sleeper? We side sleepers generally need a thicker pillow (I use an Exped large inflatable). Back sleepers don't need as thick a pillow. You might take a look at this, also, if you want to use clothing as a pillow:

Monkey pillow

Also, you could try deflating the Xlite just a bit more, till you feel it give just a bit more, see if that is more comfortable over the course of the night.

It doesn't matter for me how many nights/years I spend outside, the first night of a trip I always sleep poorly. It may be adrenaline,worry about weather/storms, unease when in bear territory, adjusting to a different sleep system than home, general excitement at being out where I love to be, sore muscles, I've never pinned it down.
I've learned to avoid caffeine late in the day, read until I'm very tired, try to relax and do breathing exercises, always get up immediately when nature calls rather than squirm for an hour delaying the inevitable. I use clothes stuffed inside a pillow stuff sack that's covered in soft fleece. Works well, the SECOND night.... If I can't find a spot that points slightly downhill as Phat suggested, I'll put my pack underneath the head of my pad . I find I need a lot of elevation, whereas my wife needs none. I do find it helps to do some stretching before I turn in if I've had a hard day. I generally make sure my camp is ship shape- food put away in whatever way it needs to be for where I am, everything weather protected and the tent guyed out well for
whatever weather may happen. For me, the first night I can get away with some rest and still function the next day. The second night I usually sleep very well. I also use an x-lite for 3 seasons and leave it firm, as that's what I'm used to.
I use a Thermarest LE for the winter. Wider, thicker, higher r-value. You may try using a closed cell foam pad underneath the x-lite and fold the end up to elevate the head section. Kind of luxurious if you want to carry the extra weight.

I think most "normal" people have problems sleeping on a small pad in a tent the first few times they try it. It is very different than sleeping at home on a nice comfy mattress. I have had similar problems as you have. Here are some of my suggestions....

I tried a hammock and loved it. It truly is the best sleep I ever get.....if I sleep in the right one. The fit of the hammock must be right. I have slept in hammocks that were too short or just designed wrong and couldn't sleep well in them. So, if you try one and it doesn't work....you might have better luck with a different type.
However, sometimes logistics put me on the ground. On the ground I generally need a pad that is at least 2.5 inches thick. I don't inflate it all the way.
The pillow situation is always a concern on the ground. In the hammock, not so much. The biggest problem is getting a large enough pillow (side sleeper here) and keeping that pillow in the right spot. Last summer I made a pillow by finding the right size piece of PU foam, cutting a punch of holes in it until it was the right firmness...then I glued a piece of fabric on the bottom and put velcro strips between the pillow and my sleeping mat to keep it in place. Worked perfectly.
Also, like others have said..it usually takes me a few nights to really sleep well on the ground. The first night is always restless, unless I am in a hammock.

Well, if the pad isn't inflated so hard that you're waking because your hips hurt, it's not the pad. (You may want to experiment with a little harder or softer, just to rule that out.) Ditto knees - they're clearly not hanging off the pad.

If the clothes are coming unbunched, and you neck drops to an uncomfortable angle, that could wake you. Try putting the clothing in a stuff sack (you should have some empty, like the tent sack), to keep it from unbunching.

I do the same thing Phat does: I use an empty (or full) water bladder as a pillow, inflated or deflated to proper firmness. If it's empty, I inflate it with air (my MSR Dromlite is really easy to inflate.)

One other thought: are you sleeping level? I have trouble staying asleep if I'm on a bit of a slope - even with my feet downhill, I wake up. You can't always get a level site; if you do have to pitch a tent on a slope, you can build up the low end of your bed by putting your empty pack (and, if needed, some clothes or other stuff) under the low end, to make it level.

Keep tinkering. It may just be getting used to it. However, if you find that the Neoair isn't comfortable, you might try the Big Agnes Q-Core (the original gray one, not the SL version.) It's heavier than the Neoair, but it's also incredibly comfortable - even more than the Neoair. I don't take mine backpacking anymore, but I do sleep on it at home, when the granddaughters visit and decide to have a pajama party with Grandma and I get kicked out of my bed.

Do you camp alone, or with a group? If you go solo, and feel that it's apprehension - try going with a group and see if you sleep better when camping with other folks. (Solo is fun, but it's not everybody's cup of tea.)

The only other thing I can think of is the sleeping bag. Synthetic bags may feel heavy on top of you, depending on how heavy a blanket or quilt you sleep on at home. (I have this problem when I stay in motels that have heavy, cotton quilts; I sleep under a down comforter (no heavy cotton duvet) at home, and the weight of the quilt keeps waking me.) You may want to try a down bag. Also, do you zip the bag and cinch the hood down, regardless of outside temperature? If so, you may be getting too hot and waking up. Try just draping the bag over you like a blanket if that's the case.

I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence; I'm just trying to throw out all the things I can think of, not knowing what you've already tried. Keep tinkering, and it will work out.

First of all, do you blow up your NeoAir to the maximum? That makes any inflatable pad no different than sleeping on a rock, or the bare ground. For me, squishy is the rule--barely enough air to keep my hip and shoulder bones off the ground, but soft enough so that, when lying on my side, my hip and shoulder sink down in leaving my spine level and parallel to the ground.

I personally was never able to find the sweet spot (neither too hard nor too soft) on a NeoAir, and the horizontal baffles "bucked me off" every time I turned over, so I ditched it in favor of a pad with vertical baffles. That's just me, though--this is definitely a "Your Mileage May Vary" thing. I think my next sleeping pad will be from Exped.

Re the pillow--several options. You can buy an inflatable pillow (many vendors). You can put the extra clothing into a stuff sack (I use my pack). You can buy a waterproof cuben stuff sack from ZPacks.com which has one side of the inside lined with fleece, and stuff your clothing in there after turning the sack inside out--the fleece feels really comfy on the face! Unfortunately any option using extra clothing leaves me with little or no pillow on extra cold nights when I'm wearing all the extra clothing inside my sleeping bag. On those nights, my shoes are the foundation for my pillow (under my pack). You can get a lightweight down pillow from Goosefeet.com.

I am generally awake a lot the first night, enjoying the night noises (no traffic or partying neighbors), plus the change from the bed at home. I just plan on being short of sleep on day 2. After the first night, I sleep just fine. Of course at my age I have to crawl out of the tent several times a night, which gives me time to admire the stars (if any), but I go back to sleep promptly.

I haven't tried a hammock, partly because many of my trips are near or above timberline and partly because I never could figure out how to get a 75-lb. dog into a hammock. The dog (unfortunately passed away, but I'm looking for another) was part of my sleep system, keeping my feet extra warm. If you don't have those issues, I suggest a trial!

My pack is part of my "pillow". I also put my shoes under the pack if I want my head higher. Then I use clothes in a small stuff sack. I find a "neck" pillow actually more comfortable. The stuff sack just goes under my neck.

I am a big proponent of drugs for the first few nights. I take a pain killer and antihistamine at bedtime until I become more accustomed to sleeping on the ground. Usually after a few days I do not need the meds. I am going to try using melatonin this summer and see how that works.

Believe it or not, after messing around for several years with NeoAirs and QCores, I'm back to a Thermarest Prolite Plus - the 48" one. It's almost as comfortable (for me - YMMV, of course), and a lot less hassle to mess with. I wake up part way through the night a bit stiff - but the walk to the nearby tree (aka Latrine) loosens me up just fine. (It's nature calling, not my hips, that wake me.)I use my pack under my lower legs, and my inflated Dromlite on top of my shoes for a pillow.

As far as staying awake the first night and just resigning yourself to being tired the next day - I also am more wakeful the first night, but I eventually learned that there's no rule that says you can't take an extra hour mid morning for a nap!

We're almost exactly the same, I love a short prolite plus shorty as it's tougher than the other things.. my trick is to make sure I get it just soft enough.. I wish there were more torso length pads - outside of winter I don't need a full length.

You have all given me some wonderful tips and tactics to help me sleep better next time. I am going to incorporate some of them and give it some time before I buy any more equipment. Darn it, I may have to try to camp a little more often now, for the sake of adjusting my sleep system of course.

Lotsof excellent ideas here. I use a hammock whenever possible as I find it the most comfortable by far. I frequently sleep in the hammock at home Whatever you choose, try it at home, and try the different variations there before going to the trail. That way you will know a system that works before your get out. Some years ago while suffering from an ulcer, I "learned" to sleep on my back. This proved beneficial when camping, as on your back, there are fewer and lesser pressure points to the ground or pad. Becayse of an arthritic lower back, I do need, however, to elevate my head, so pillow is a requirement. There are plenty of inflatables which weigh little, and the platy idea above is excellent. Less need in a hammock,just a sack stuffed with clothes is sufficient. finally, to repeat, try it at home first. Same applies to a new stove, new shelter, GPS or whatever. On the trail in a thunderstorm is not the time to begin learning.

I don't have a lot of advice for overall comfortable sleep (still working on that myself), but I did transition from a clothes sack to a Montbell U.L. comfort system inflatable pillow and it was a huge improvement in terms of keeping my head and neck comfortable. Now I can focus more on my aching side pressure points.

I would look into getting one of those small travel pillows they sell for use on airplanes. I don't have one, but do have a small bag with an inflatable side on it that turns it into a pillow. It was a trade show freebie so no idea who makes something like it, but I bet someone does.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I'm a side sleeper and have trouble sleeping as well. Best luck I've had is with a Q-Core SL (3.5 inches thick and 17oz.. sign me up!) and the REI pillow stuck sack stuffed with my down jacket.

I too use the NeoAir, and sleep very well on it. My only vice is a good pillow, it does make all the difference. For a measly 12 oz, the Sea To Summit Luxury pillow is as good as any pillow I use at home, it tends to stay put better than some of the ones in the more slippery nylon shell, and the loft is up to you when inflating the core. Not a huge expense, but it does give you that comfort of having a pillow that doesn't feel like you are sleeping on a bundle of dirty clothes.

Also, if you wake due to feeling cold, I have found that adding a silk bag liner adds significant warmth for minimal extra weight. Also makes keeping your sleeping bag clean a lot easier.

Update--I just ordered the Exped UL7 Downmat yesterday and will let you all know how it works after I've spent a few nights on the floor and one in the back yard with it.

It's very pricey, but the REI 20% off coupon and a very small dividend at least temper the sticker shock. I had to give up on my custom mat from the late Kookabay, because no matter what kind of sealer I used and even with a Gossamer Gear CCF pad underneath, it skidded all over the tent floor every time I moved. I will be lamenting the 5 oz. weight gain with the Exped mat, though, so unless it's comfortable and stable enough to be worth the extra $$$ and weight, I'll return it.

I started out as a ground dweller and have graduated to being a hanger. I definitely recommend at least finding someone who has a "backpacking" hammock that will let you lay in in and experience the comfort for yourself. Be warned: it's a whole different (I'll not say better, as I know this is preference) philosophy in terms of backpacking. Many hangers will ditch the sleeping back for a top quilt and the pad for a under quilt. Pros and cons to all these options.

If you're interested, check out www.hammockforums.net - tons of good info over there. I just bought a Dream-Hammock Dangerbird recently, and can honestly say it's the most comfortable sleep I've ever had in the woods.

The site is www.dream-hammock.com if you want to check it out.