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#182750 - 02/11/14 01:12 PM Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens)
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Hello all.
We are new to backpacking camping, but not new to camping.
We used to go car camping at State Parks a few times a year when we lived in Iowa (don't even get me started on that place).

But now we live in Beautiful Idaho and have always wanted to REALLY go camping. So we are looking at getting some gear. It would be for my Wife, our 11 yr old, and myself.
We are trying to do it on a budget, but I admit I am looking at nice packs and tent. For some reason I feel I shouldn't skimp on a pack since we'll be carrying it for long distances and a tent since we'll be carrying it long distances and sleeping in it.

Any gear recommendations would be appreciated, but I've been searching online venders and reading reviews, so I have some stuff in mind.

But my problem is finding a nice pack for my wife. I'm looking at the Gregory Balto 65 for myself (used of ebay hopefully), but tried looking for my wife and I noticed the sizing on ALOT of packs are not for thicker chicks. I would like to get a nice one for her with the suspension hip and shoulder straps like the Balto, but she is shorter and thicker and none of the torso length sizes would fit her around the waist.
So would anyone have any idea or recommendations on packs to look at for her.

We don't plan on going ultra light or anything and we have absolutely no gear and are looking to buy all our gear now.
We will probably only do maybe 2-3 nights of camping for now and we don't plan on doing any winter camping anytime soon.

So any ideas on packs to look at for wife and any ideas, tips, or recommendations for some backcountry camping newbies?
Thank you

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#182751 - 02/11/14 01:31 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Every body is different, so YMMV.

I tried on every single backpack that REI had in stock in a store in Cali and a local outfitter - mens and womens. I ended up with a Osprey Ariel. It is not even close to ultra light and has lots of ... do-dads, which I like blush Price was more than I wanted, but being a cheapskate, this is normal for me.

I ended up buying this from a local business and they helped fit it for me, the had a hip belt "baker" but they said they had better luck with the individual just wearing it and body heat forming it.

I'm very happy with it, but you have to try backpacks on to find the correct fit.

Good luck!

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#182752 - 02/11/14 01:40 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Heather-ak]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Ahh Ok. Thank you for that. Maybe we'll go do that sometime. We have an REI about an hour away so maybe we'll go get fitted.
But do the people that work there actually know what they're doing? Or is it just some normal non-backpacking sales people that just happen to get a job there and put in that department?

Thank you again Heather.

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#182755 - 02/11/14 02:05 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
It does depend on your luck if REI has someone with a clue. I'd take the equipment you expect to carry if at all possible. They do have sand weights, but of course they carry different than actual "stuff". I did have better luck finding someone who had knowledge at the local outfitters. You do need someone who knows how to fit the pack - maybe call ahead and see when a good time to stop by is? Or learn how to fit the pack yourself. For instance I know that there are several different sized hip belts in the Osprey line, so I could ask do you have the smaller / bigger one and then feel the difference. However it was nice to have someone there to make suggestions, such as I wear my pack incorrectly (which prior to fitting I didn't know) - I wear my hip belt on my hip bone tips not the iliac crest where it is supposed to be.

Also, just a personal opinion, I (ummm) sometimes listen better to someone else helping rather than the poor hubby. shocked

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#182756 - 02/11/14 02:40 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Heather-ak]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Thanks for that Heather.
Yeah I'll have to give them a call. The only thing with that is I'm afraid that then we'll be stuck picking a pack from REI, which I like to have a huge selection to choose from, and I'm not sure how many different brands REI carry in store.
I actually don't think I've ever been to an REI store before, so maybe they'll have plenty.
But I'm a froogle shopper and I'd rather buy used and/or online if I can.


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#182757 - 02/11/14 03:45 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1116
Loc: Madison, AL
You probably won't spend the least amount of money by buying from a local shop, but realize the value of the service you receive and you may find you get the better deal by spending more money. There are many cottage guys making packs that you will not find at REI, but without much experience you're taking a real gamble that it has any chance of fitting you. Some of the online places offer a good return policy, but if you don't know what you want it could be a long (and possibly expensive with shipping costs) processes.

In terms of finding a knowledgeable salesperson, that is a risk, but I would try to visit a couple different shops if you can. REI will probably have the biggest selection. Try to go during the day when they are not as busy. You are more likely to be matched to the best salesperson available.

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#182762 - 02/11/14 04:22 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: BZH]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
If you box up and take all your gear, including the weight/bulk equivalent of a week's food and a day's water, to the store, that will help. As mentioned, there's a lot of difference between weights or sandbags and real gear.

Pack fit is almost as individual as shoe fit. The pack needs to fit your body, fit your gear and be comfortable for you to carry with your gear inside. For example, while Heather loves her Osprey pack, I have not yet found an Osprey pack (either unisex or woman-specific) with a hip belt that is comfortable for me. A "hike" of at least an hour around the store with fully loaded pack will help you determine if the store staff knows what it's doing.

Make an advance appointment with the store (for a non-crowded time) and insist on their most experienced pack fitter (when I go in, REI always gives me the most inexperiened teenagers unless I scream). You'll of course have to fit his/her work schedule. Tell them you're going to bring all your gear with you and that you need to try the pack with the gear. As a fringe benefit, you will hopefully also get some info on the best way to pack it.

Before getting any farther into gear selection, please check out the articles and gear lists on the home page of this site, left hand column. There's lots of useful information there!

I ended up ordering a pack from one of the many "cottage" manufacturers that sell exclusively online. I was fully prepared to pay return shipping charges for half a dozen packs if necessary to get what I wanted. Amazingly, the first pack I ordered fit me as though it had been made to order just for me! I had my gear and the food/water equivalent all ready and loaded up the pack as soon as I took it out of its box. I "hiked" around the house for two hours--most boring hike I've ever done, but worth to be sure the pack was comfortable while I could still send it back. I'm still using this pack after 8 years and have no plans to replace it.

Even though I didn't buy a pack at the local stores, the several hours I spent at two different stores was worth it to learn what a comfortable pack feels like. The only one there I found that was comfortable weighed 7 pounds. The pack I ended up with weighs 29 ounces and, for what I carry, is fully as comfortable as the 7 pound behemoth!

Oh and another hint--don't go in just after a big sale. I visited REI in early April, forgetting that their big sale is generally the last half of March. All the lighter weight packs were out of stock!

Of course, as we say in the backpacking world, YMMV--Your Mileage May (and probably will) Vary!


Edited by OregonMouse (02/11/14 04:46 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#182768 - 02/11/14 04:56 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: OregonMouse]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Well that's the thing we have absolutely no gear to take in and I really have no idea what we'd be eating whenever we are able to go. I'm one of the pickiest eaters out there. There's ALOT of things I won't eat and maybe a Dozen things that I do eat and that I've always eaten. The thing is none of them convert well into camping food.

So I wouldn't be able to take food (into REI). We don't have any other gear to stuff in the bags. Maybe a few pair of clothing but that's it, not even hiking boots/shoes.

I'm still researching affordable gear to get us. So I should wait to buy a pack till we have our gear? Cause honestly we can't spend hours at store trying on packs and packing and repacking them. We are about an hour away from an REI and one of our kids has Cancer, so we can't just leave him for hours and we have nobody here to stay with him. The only time we really go to city is when we take our son for chemo, radiation and Dr's appointments. Otherwise we're only away from our son for maybe an hour when we go grocery shopping.

And we'd like to get the gear now while we have the extra money. We're not great at saving money as we spoil our kids. So we'd like to order this stuff ASAP.

I don't understand how a pack can have a bad fit if it fits your torso and waist. But then again I know nothing about this and that's why I'm here. grin

I know I can't afford us all nice equipment, but I'm trying to make sure I think of everything and get us the essentials. And yes I have looked at the 10 essentials list.

I'm just trying to get good gear that would make our first few camping trips in the mountains comfortable ones. But I'm sure we'll learn along the way.
Thank You for help and advice.


Edited by Toddlers (02/11/14 04:56 PM)

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#182769 - 02/11/14 05:31 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
That's why the backpack is the last gear item you should purchase! You need to have a pretty good idea of the bulk and weight of what you're going to put into it before you can even start researching what kind of pack you're going to get. One pack of the same capacity may support 50 lbs. while another may support only 25 lbs.

Quote:
I don't understand how a pack can have a bad fit if it fits your torso and waist.

As I mentioned, pack fit is as individual as shoe fit. I wear a size 9.5 or 10 B shoe, depending on what the manufacturer thinks that size represents. I don't dare buy shoes without a thorough try-on, even if its a make I've worn before. That's because I have extremely narrow heels and need a wide and high toe box. Each shoe model uses a bit different last, and most manufacturers have a habit of changing them every year or two. The same is true for packs.

You can do the gear trial in the packs at home, as I did, but you need to do it within the period that the vendor allows for returning the pack, which may be only a few weeks. Even REI now is getting really fussy about returns, which they used to accept indefinitely without question. In other words, there's no substitute for waiting until last, or almost last, to buy the packs.

I'm really fussy about food, too; I won't touch stuff like Mountain House, although I do buy ingredients (not meals) from Packit Gourmet, which uses mostly organic ingredients and no preservatives. During the winter, I cook up batches of one-pot meals at home and dehydrate them. On the trail, I add boiling water to the food and let the food stand 15-20 minutes in a cozy--no cooking required. There's lots of info on how to do this at trailcooking.com and lots of recipes there and in the food section of this forum.

With your circumstances, you and your wife will probably have to go shopping one at a time (been there, done that), maybe on different trips, for things that have to be tried on, like packs and shoes. You may want to look at used gear sources, too. Even thrift shops can be a good source--you nevef know when you'll find something good there.

You have my thoughts and prayers for your son!


Edited by OregonMouse (02/11/14 05:34 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#182771 - 02/11/14 05:49 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: OregonMouse]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Cool thanks for all that Mouse, but the wife and I can not go shopping at different times.......I'm the only one in the family that drives......
We are planning on looking at thrift stores for clothing atleast. Not sure if we'd find good donated gear, but we'll keep an eye out just in case.

I can understand why the pack should be the last item purchased, but just not sure if we're able to do that. That why I figured if we got 60-65L packs we should have plenty of room for a few days and then a little extra just in case.

We're also just VERY anxious on getting this stuff as we've ALWAYS wanted to camp like that (backpacking/hiking) instead of camping at State parks by our car as we always did in Iowa.

Thank you again and I'll keep everything in mind and try to figure something out.

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#182775 - 02/11/14 07:16 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1116
Loc: Madison, AL
You seem to want to buy the pack now because you have money now. The implicit assumption is that the pack is the most important piece of gear you need to buy. I disagree. I think the best bang for your bucks on equipment is spending your money on a quality down sleeping bag (or quilt). There is no comparison between a quality down bag and the cheap alternatives. They pack smaller, weigh less, and keep you warmer, plus they can last a lifetime (I still use the down bags my parents bought 30-40 years ago). The performance differences between a cheap pack and an expensive one do not compare. If you have the money to buy one piece of equipment spend your money on a down bag (unless you have a down allergy)

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#182776 - 02/11/14 07:26 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
I'll throw out there that Deuter makes a good women's pack that has lots of adjustment and is eminently comfortable . Something in the 60-65 liter range will do you for what you want, as long as your sleeping bags aren't cheap monstrosities that have very little compression. Other than that, pads can lash outside or go inside, depending on what you bring. Down bags will be very compressible and light for the warmth they provide, look for used or deals. I wore wool pants, fleece vest and a fleece jacket that cost me 18 dollars total at a thrift store and they kept me warm on a trip that dropped to zero this past weekend.
As long as you keep your sleeping bag bulk down, and your tent size not too large, the pack size you specified will easily fill the bill. Maybe more important than any advice I can throw your way, a heartfelt prayer said for your son and your whole family. I hope all of you have many, many happy miles on trails together.
_________________________
Charlie

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#182777 - 02/11/14 07:54 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: BZH]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Well would we need a down sleeping bag if we don't sleep in temps under 40-50F? 40F being the absolute lowest. I've camped in the winter in 8" of snow in Jan. in the Midwest when I was younger and I'm just not a fan of it.
I just figured the down bags were more for warmth in the winter.

I was planning on getting the BIG AGNES BIG CREEK +30 Double sleeping bag for my wife and myself. I figured that should be good enough down to 40F. I'd kinda like a double sack for the wifey and myself.

Also yes I do want to buy a pack now because we have money now....just seems logical to me. I do understand the reasoning on why it should be the last thing you purchase and we are looking at making a list of what we might need and ordering that stuff first. But I also won't let a deal on ebay pass me buy. So if I can find a nice pack for cheap on ebay I'll probably snatch it up.

I will look into the down bags though and see if I can find something I can afford for all 3 of us.
Thank you

And yeah I was actually looking at the Deuter bags for us. I do like them, I just like the idea of hip and should belts that move with you, but I'm not opposed to the Deuter. Heck I'm still considering some cheap(er) TeTon packs I saw on Amazon.

Also thank you for Prayers...You too Heather. It's been a very tough road, but our son is doing very well considering, so we're very thankful.


Edited by Toddlers (02/11/14 07:57 PM)

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#182781 - 02/11/14 08:27 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
In the Rockies, summer nights will regularly get down close to freezing if not below. Some nights will be 40*F and some will be nearer 20*, and this often depends not just on the weather forecast (not very reliable in mountains) but also on local microclimates and the altitude.

I personally will not go out in either the Rockies or Cascades without a 20*F bag--I get COLD! Actually, the "comfort" (women's) rating for my bag is about 25*F, although I've taken it down to 15*F by wearing all my insulating clothing inside over a vapor barrier suit and having a 75 lb. dog to snuggle up to. A warm sleeping pad helps, too.

If a sleeping bag is not EN13537 rated, I'd put the temp rating about 10*F higher than that set by the manufacturer's marketing department.

You might want to look at separate sleeping bags that can be zipped together. The budget down bag that is most popular right now (recommended for Boy Scouts on a budget) is the Kelty Cosmic Down 20. I do not know if they have compatible zippers, though--you'd need a right zipper on one bag and a left zipper on the other. You could check that on the Kelty website.

Do get at least your packs from a place that will allow returns--I'd be a bit wary of ebay. As I said, it's like buying shoes sight unseen. Make sure anything you order is returnable (usually you'll have to pay return shipping cost).

Down is much more compressible than synthetics so takes up a lot less pack room. Unlike synthetics, down recovers more quickly and completely from being compressed. Because of this, down bags will outlast synthetics. A good synthetic bag lasts 5-8 years (depending on how much its used) before losing significant loft; a high quality down bag will last a lifetime if properly cared for. Down is, of course, a lot warmer for the weight, which concerns us--as the motto of this site goes, lightweight backpacking is more fun!


Edited by OregonMouse (02/11/14 08:34 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#182786 - 02/11/14 09:21 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: OregonMouse]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Thanks for info. Looked at the kelty down bags. They look nice, but that'd be $500 just for sleeping bags. I'm just not sure I could afford that. I thought $63 for a sleeping bag was expensive. lol.
When I say camp in the mountains. I don't mean we'll be camping up on the mountains.

Well I'll keep my eyes open on eBay and craigslist for a few nice down bags. Just not sure I can do $150\bag, but I don't want my wife and son to freeze to death.

Thank you

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#182790 - 02/11/14 10:07 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Ok when I look on Ebay for gear I don't know all the good brands of camping equipment, so could you guys add to my list for quality brands.
Here's the brands that I think are good, from reviews I've read.

Tents: Marmot, Big Agnes, Nemo, MSR, Mountain Hardware. Do Kelty make quality tents also?

Sleeping bags: Marmot, Big Agnes, Mountain Hardware, Kelty

Packs: Deuter, Osprey, Gregory, Kelty

I don't know what brands are good for smaller items, but I try to go buy reviews I can find.
And With those brands, Do they all make all sorts of quality camping gear or are they better at making one item more than others?
As in lets say Marmot made real quality tents, but their sleeping bags are to be avoided. Or something like that.
Or any tent, sleeping bag, packs from any of those companies would be a quality item?

Thank you again

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#182791 - 02/11/14 10:09 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Those Kelty bags are often discounted at places like Dick's Sporting Goods, Sports Authority, etc. Worth a look, anyway. Unfortunately, down is getting scarcer and the demand is increasing….

It actually gets colder down in the valleys than on top of the mountains. Besides, don't you want to visit those beautiful high mountain lakes in Idaho? You're not in Iowa anymore! (Sorry, couldn't resist that!)
lol

Anyway, instead of my pontificating on, which you're undoubtedly tired of, let me give you a a few references:


Start with the home page of this site that I linked to earlier.

Mark Verber's website. This survey of possible gear is downright encyclopedic, but you really just want to read the introduction to each section for general info and then skip to the end for low budget choices. There are also links to gear lists (a few don't work) and to other lowbudget ideas. No point in reading all about $700 tents, which I can't afford, either!

Dirtbagging and Deal Shopping, by "Sgt. Rock" Lots of low cost ideas for hiking, starting in your own closet, kitchen and garage. While he focuses on the Appalachian Trail, the principles are the same.

One caveat--especially with this year's drought, expect bans on campfires and probably on alcohol fueled stoves. Those options for saving money are therefore not feasible.


Edited by OregonMouse (02/11/14 10:19 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#182792 - 02/11/14 10:09 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
I like this list of links, really complete. Tons of cottage gear too.
http://hikeitlikeit.com/directory-of-manufacturers/
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#182794 - 02/11/14 10:35 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: rockchucker22]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Not a complete list, and at least one (Kooka Bay) has been out of business for a couple of years, but still pretty good; it has the major players.

Note that REI has its own house brands which are pretty good. In fact not all their stuff is heavy. Check their outlet for closeouts on discontinued models. I believe Eastern Mountain Sports does also.

Sierra Trading Post often has specials/closeouts. The insulated air pad I still use was bought there 8 years ago for $30.

Re tents--make sure the screen door(s) is (are) vertical. Lots of tents have screen doors slanting inwards towards the top of the tent. That means you have to shut up the solid door even in the merest drizzle, which means lots of condensation, as well as claustrophobia, inside. And make sure there's enough room inside. A lot of the major manufacturers have tried to meet the lightweight competition from firms like Tarptent by making their tents smaller, so their 2-person size is good only for two small people. Check the specifications on the manufacturers' websites for the actual dimensions, mark them on the carpet with masking tape and see if you'll fit.


Edited by OregonMouse (02/11/14 10:46 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#182797 - 02/11/14 11:17 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: OregonMouse]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
Wow thank for those links you 2.

Yeah I think you guys have convienced me to buy down bags, so looks like I'll either be spending more than what I wanted or skimping on something else.
The wife and I are sitting down right now trying to make a list of what we'd put in the bag for our first few 3 day trips. So far we only have the basics of clothing.
Oh yeah question about clothing. Do most people just wear the same outfit for a few days to save on weight or do most have a change of clothing for every day?

Thank you for advice on using tape to get an idea of tent dimensions, Good idea.
Thank you again, much appreciated.

Also how do you cook if you can't use a campfire or alcohol fueled stove?


Edited by Toddlers (02/11/14 11:21 PM)

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#182798 - 02/11/14 11:21 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Same clothes everyday. I like extra socks and a pair of undies that's it.
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#182803 - 02/12/14 02:43 AM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: rockchucker22]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
The general "rule" followed by most lightweight hikers is to take sufficient clothing to stay warm in the coldest conditions you can expect while you're wearing everything at the same time. Add a pair of spare socks. For me, that does not include the socks (or down booties) that I wear only for sleeping. I'll wear wet socks for hiking, but not in my sleeping bag! Since I don't wear my base layer (formerly known as long underwear) once I start hiking in the morning, it stays dry in my pack so I do have something dry to change into and wear in the sleeping bag.

I use fast-drying undies, so if I have to wash my panties they will be dry enough to wear in an hour. My body heat will dry them really fast after that.



Edited by OregonMouse (02/12/14 02:48 AM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#182807 - 02/12/14 10:50 AM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: OregonMouse]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
Considering you share sleeping arrangements with your wife and don't plan on winter use this discussion might be interesting
http://www.backpacking.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=182412#Post182412. Just make sure your pads have somewhere near a 4.0 R-value to insulate you from the ground and the quilt is wide enough for both of you. In the end it may save pack space, money (especially if you sew your own), and be comfortable, too.
_________________________
Charlie

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#182810 - 02/12/14 01:29 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: bluefish]
Toddlers Offline
member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 23
That's cool, quilts seem expensive, at least the ones I looked at. Are they generally more expensive than bags of same temp rating?
Don't know how to sew, so that's not an option.
Thanks for link and I'll keep that in mind and start checking out quilts.

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#182811 - 02/12/14 01:45 PM Re: Hello all. ?'s about packs (womens) [Re: Toddlers]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1116
Loc: Madison, AL
Quilts are generally cheaper than bags made with similar materials. The quilts you are looking at aren't competing with $50 Walmart bags. They use materials and are of similar quality to bags made by Western Mountaineering or Feathered Friends. Check those bags out, if you think quilts are expensive. Oh... and WM and FF are worth every penny (and its a lot of pennies!)

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