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#182381 - 01/30/14 05:16 PM What diameter poles for A-frames?
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
I've almost finished building my A-frame tarp/tent. I decided not to use the cane walking sticks I made for the poles. I'm testing it out with four sections from my car camping tent, but eventually I'll order some Easton poles and put the car camping tent poles back together. What diameter is typically used for this sort of thing?


Edited by 4evrplan (01/30/14 05:17 PM)
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#182385 - 01/30/14 06:57 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
You could get these polls http://www.rutalocura.com/Tent_Poles.html I'm sure the .450 diameter is plenty. The Rutalocura stuff is very nice.
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#182386 - 01/30/14 08:01 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: rockchucker22]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
YIKES! $50 for four sections! I was thinking more like Easton's cheapest aluminum.
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#182389 - 01/30/14 11:20 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
billstephenson Offline
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By 4evrplan
YIKES! $50 for four sections! I was thinking more like Easton's cheapest aluminum.


Yeah, but they can do Mach II and withstand the G forces of barrel rolls and stuff grin

I'd really like to see a photo of your tent. It sounds like it's going to be pretty nice.
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#182394 - 01/31/14 09:28 AM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: billstephenson]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
I decided not to mess with taping up a catenary curve, so it's not as nice as it otherwise might have been. And, it's still a work in progress, but here's a sneak peak.



It still needs mosquito netting and a floor, and the poles and stakes are all borrowed from my other tent. I'm going to bring down the height a bit. It's tall, as in I can sit under the droopiest part and have about a foot of clearance. I'm hoping the triangular protrusions at the ends will keep everything dry in the rain, but if not, I'll have to change the design to cover up the ends.
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#182467 - 02/03/14 07:03 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
I've had it set up for four windy days in the backyard, and my cheap fiberglass poles seem to be plenty strong for the job, so I think the .340 in. poles will be sufficient.

However, there's a couple other issues that I want to run past you guys. I've got very short tape loops at the edge of the tarp that a second loop goes through, and then the stakes go through that (see the picture below). I was going to use some elastic for the secondary loops, but the elastic I had was very stiff, and I couldn't get it tied off, so I used string instead. I think it's drop line for fishing. the stakes held just fine in the wind, and the tarp didn't seem to stretch or tear, but the string loops unraveled.

I've also used the same drop line for my guy lines, and I guess they stretched, because my ridge line was no longer taut.

How would you deal with these issues - guy lines stretching and stake loops unraveling?



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#182607 - 02/08/14 08:19 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
That looks great! Have you measured the weight of it yet? It must be very light.

I sewed 3/4" nylon webbing loops on the SOL tent I made.

On a visqueen tarp I made I used two layers of the "bonded Outdoor Restore" sticky vinyl patch on the corners and put a small metal grommet in it, and put a cord loop through that.

Both of those have worked very good. My wife has confiscated my phone after losing hers, but when I get it back I'll take a couple photos and post them.
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#182612 - 02/08/14 08:59 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: billstephenson]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Thanks Bill! I think it's between 1.75 and 2.25 pounds. Since I posted this, I just about figured everything out, either by googling or by trial and error. There's more information about it in my gear log thread.

Nylon webbing sounds like a great option. If the cord loops don't hold, I'll probably go that route. If I had thought of it before I attached the tape, I might have put hard plastic loops there. I've got an empty chapstick container begging to be cut into cross sections for that purpose.

I look forward to seeing what you've made. I've got the bug make more tarps/tents. I want to try that polyolefin (window film) at some point, but I may just mock up something with a couple of the 10x10 super thing plastic drop cloths I just bought next.
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#182697 - 02/10/14 08:33 AM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
My wife still has my phone and she's taking off with a friend all day so I'm still without a camera but you can see some photos of my tent here:

Hot Box Tent

I made an old fashion "Baker's Tent" / "Super Shelter" that warms up inside when you have a campfire in front of it.
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#182701 - 02/10/14 11:07 AM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: billstephenson]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Very nicely done. I bet it gets really warm with a fire going too. How many SOL blankets did you use?
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#200999 - 05/16/18 08:26 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
Alf Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 53
Loc: London, UK.
Originally Posted By 4evrplan

I've also used the same drop line for my guy lines, and I guess they stretched, because my ridge line was no longer taut.

How would you deal with these issues - guy lines stretching and stake loops unraveling?



Simple, don't use Nylon. Nylon absorbs water and stretches, so your guy lines which seemed tight before the rain got on them, end up loose. Same thing happens for tents with Nylon rain flys...The whole fly ends up sagging. So don't use Nylon webbing either, use Polypropylene webbing instead. Replace your Nylon guy lines with waterproof Dyneema cord instead...It's lighter (floats on water), far stronger (pure Dyneema fibre is 15 times stronger than steel!), and it has virtually zero stretch, even when wet, so your guy lines will always stay taut. Dyneema cord comes in two types...The first type has a thin braided Dyneema core, surrounded in a braided Polyester sheath (for greater UV and abrasion resistance) and the second type is just pure braided Dyneema. The sheathed version is still very strong (2mm Polyester sheathed Dyneema cord has a breaking strain of 125kg (276 lbs)), but it's not as strong as pure braided Dyneema cord...1mm cord made of pure braided Dyneema has a breaking strain of 136kg! (300 lbs!). However, the sheathed version is best for guy lines, which need good abrasion resistance and they can come in virtually any colour combination you can think of. As I like stealth camping I went for plain dark olive green...I find the 2mm sheathed Dyneema cord is perfect for guy lines. To permanently stop the cut ends fraying, simply use a lighter to carefully singe them for a couple of seconds. The Polyester sheath has really nice feel and it's non slip too so your fingers won't slip on it, like they do on Nylon, even when trying to tighten your guy lines in the rain. Tie knots with it and they stay tightened, yet they seem to be easy to undo with your fingers too, although that might be down to the choice of knots I was using.


Edited by Alf (05/17/18 05:13 AM)

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#201006 - 05/17/18 03:00 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: Alf]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Alf, I hope someone out there can benefit from this info, but so you know, that was posted over 4 years ago. I don't even have that tent anymore. And, I'm familiar with dyneema line, as I'm using both Amsteel Blue and Dynaglide for hammock suspension, and Zing-It for hanging food. I still use drop line for guy lines though, because I'm cheap. laugh And, putting in a short length of shock cord on each guy line keeps the tension nice and steady. I no longer have a need to tie my tarps out right to the ground, but if I did, I'd probably use a D ring through each tie out point.
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#201009 - 05/18/18 06:32 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
Alf Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 53
Loc: London, UK.
Originally Posted By 4evrplan
Alf, I hope someone out there can benefit from this info, but so you know, that was posted over 4 years ago. I don't even have that tent anymore. And, I'm familiar with dyneema line, as I'm using both Amsteel Blue and Dynaglide for hammock suspension, and Zing-It for hanging food. I still use drop line for guy lines though, because I'm cheap. laugh And, putting in a short length of shock cord on each guy line keeps the tension nice and steady. I no longer have a need to tie my tarps out right to the ground, but if I did, I'd probably use a D ring through each tie out point.


Four years ago? Blimey, didn't check the dates. By the way, a couple of weeks ago I bought a 300m reel of of 1mm olive green Spider braid Dyneema fishing line, with a breaking strain of 136kg (300lbs) for £21.20 on ebay (its only £18.50 now) and it turned up a couple of days ago...It is exactly what I hoped it would be...The perfect stuff to make ultralight guy lines from. It has a nice feel to it, like proper string, not like slippy like Nylon fishing line is at all. If I could get a needle with a big enough hole in it, I could sew with it on my sewing machine too, making extremely strong stitching!

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#202551 - 01/30/19 12:14 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: 4evrplan]
Capt hook Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/21/18
Posts: 7
Use some Para cord

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#202557 - 01/30/19 05:07 PM Re: What diameter poles for A-frames? [Re: Capt hook]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By Capt hook
Use some Para cord
Paracord works if that's what you have, but for cheap, I prefer setline, made for fishing. Or, presumably mason's line works well too. If I'm going to spend the money on something more optimal, I'd go with some form of UHMWPE (i.e. Spectra or Dyneema). It's lighter, thinner, stronger, and doesn't hold water. It does have the disadvantage that it's extremely slippery and doesn't hold a knot. There are however, versions with a non-slip coating made specifically for guy lines. I know the bushcraft crowd likes paracord though, because it can be deconstructed and the strands used separately.
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