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#182457 - 02/03/14 01:40 PM Stoves!
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
With fire bans imminent this year I'm guessing if I want to cook at all, it will have to be on a stove with a shutoff valve. I prefer canister over white gas. I currently own a early titanium canister stove that is pretty small and light, but after a bit of research there is lighter, more efficient models out. I'm curious about what everyone is using. I don't like msr stoves, they are not well designed to me. I like the looks of this stove but have no experience with the brand. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007OJKI0M
Let me know what you think!
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#182458 - 02/03/14 01:51 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
I like my vintage MSR stoves. If I want to shave weight, then I'll bring a MSR Micro Rocket or more preferred Snow Peak Giga power GS-100? canister stove. Or a very hot Coleman Exponent F1, more btu's than other stoves its size by a large margin. Get your coffee stuff ready before heating the water with that one.
100 now, here I thought I had cut a few out.
Duane

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#182459 - 02/03/14 03:37 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: hikerduane]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Msr micro rocket is 2.6 ounces and the pocket rocket is 3. I'm trying to cut that in half. 1.5-1.7 oz max and a quick boil time. I know having my cake and eating it too.
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#182460 - 02/03/14 03:55 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Not much use out there from what I've read on your stove. More on the Fire Maple? and Soto stoves.
Duane

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#182465 - 02/03/14 05:29 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: hikerduane]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
I thought firemaple and olicamp are made by the same Chinese company?
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#182466 - 02/03/14 05:35 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
wildthing Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 984
Loc: Victoria, B.C.
I suggest you check the real weight and boil time of the Olicamp Kinetic Ultra Titanium Stove. With 10,000 BTU, no way it boils as fast as the 16,000 BTU Coleman F1 Exponent (3+ minutes depending on elevation) which also simmers. Sure the F1 weighs an ounce more, but you might find it is worth that ounce in performance. I've been very happy, and works very well at elevation if you get the higher propane mix.


Edited by wildthing (02/03/14 05:37 PM)
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#182469 - 02/03/14 08:08 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: wildthing]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By wildthing
I suggest you check the real weight and boil time of the Olicamp Kinetic Ultra Titanium Stove. With 10,000 BTU, no way it boils as fast as the 16,000 BTU Coleman F1 Exponent (3+ minutes depending on elevation) which also simmers. Sure the F1 weighs an ounce more, but you might find it is worth that ounce in performance. I've been very happy, and works very well at elevation if you get the higher propane mix.
. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0009VC7UG
That looks pretty good. I wish they could get the weight down,

This is what I currently use and weighs 3 oz
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#182511 - 02/05/14 02:03 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
wildthing Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 984
Loc: Victoria, B.C.
Might be a few good reasons to switch up to a more efficient stove, but criteria may be broader than just wieght. Size and weight are not the real objectives here as there is so little difference between all of them you really should be looking at your preferances and how the performance of each matches that, not just weight:

1. Get better gas mileage, for example you can make the small cylinder last 4.5 days if you're careful
2. Simmers better, which means you can use less gas
3. With higher BTU, may boil more quickly and get you going faster
4. One last thing, the F1 is pretty steady with the pot supports and that reduces the spill factor, especially with the lower profile cannisters

Just some other factors to consier, your analysis may have different variables.


Edited by wildthing (02/05/14 02:04 PM)
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#182523 - 02/05/14 04:17 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: wildthing]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By wildthing
Might be a few good reasons to switch up to a more efficient stove, but criteria may be broader than just wieght. Size and weight are not the real objectives here as there is so little difference between all of them you really should be looking at your preferances and how the performance of each matches that, not just weight:

1. Get better gas mileage, for example you can make the small cylinder last 4.5 days if you're careful
2. Simmers better, which means you can use less gas
3. With higher BTU, may boil more quickly and get you going faster
4. One last thing, the F1 is pretty steady with the pot supports and that reduces the spill factor, especially with the lower profile cannisters

Just some other factors to consier, your analysis may have different variables.


Thank you! Your points are very helpful, for $40 you can't really go wrong, I think I'll order a F1 and give it a try.

The whole weight thing has become a bit of an obsession and I'm down to shaving grams rather than ounces, this is why I nitpick it. But as you mentioned it could possibly be a mute point, if you can save 2 oz of fuel by more efficiently boil times. I guess it really comes down to the length of the trip.
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The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#182538 - 02/05/14 10:35 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Tyson, the F1 comes up on the bay for under $30. I was given mine as it had too much water, rain or dew on it over the previous owners time. I gave the spindle a little shot of oil and it turns smooth now. I also have the power boost model, over 23,000? some btu's. More than the burner on a full size stove I believe. Just got a single burner, Coleman Canadian 500 from the 50's, very nice shape, much larger than my Coleman 502. Both too big for mc's or bping.
Duane
PS: There is one on the bay now with the auction ending about 6PM tomorrow, starting bid about $22. I bought one for a friend for about that much a year ago.


Edited by hikerduane (02/05/14 11:06 PM)

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#182540 - 02/05/14 11:08 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: hikerduane]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By hikerduane
Tyson, the F1 comes up on the bay for under $30. I was given mine as it had too much water, rain or dew on it over the previous owners time. I gave the spindle a little shot of oil and it turns smooth now. I also have the power boost model, over 23,000? some btu's. More than the burner on a full size stove I believe. Just got a single burner, Coleman Canadian 500 from the 50's, very nice shape, much larger than my Coleman 502. Both too big for mc's or bping.
Duane
PS: There is one on the bay now with the auction ending about 6PM tomorrow, starting bid about $22. I bought one for a friend for about that much a year ago.
Thanks! I'll head over to e-bay right now!
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#182541 - 02/05/14 11:24 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Next thing you know I'll be as bad as you Duane, it starts with one stove..... Funny how years ago all my cooking was over fire, if I was above 10,000 it was cold meals. I'm such a wimp now , I need a good cup of tea in the morning and sometimes in the evening. And lazy because I got really tired of cleaning soot off the pot, and all my gear smelling of smoke.
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#182545 - 02/06/14 08:40 AM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Yep, I used to only cook over small fires back in the 70's, 80's. Paper bagged my small pot to keep the pack clean, which I cleaned up very good after fires were banned in Desolation Wilderness and use it in my kitchen still at home.
100 now.
Duane

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#182550 - 02/06/14 10:31 AM Re: Stoves! [Re: hikerduane]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
I'm the high bidder! Nobody else bid on this one...... Please thanks
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#182555 - 02/06/14 12:00 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Quote:
"With fire bans imminent this year I'm guessing if I want to cook at all, ..."

My experience is that a significant number of people who "just know" that they wouldn't like eating only cold meals are in fact fine with them if they give that approach a fair shot and learn from the experiences of others what things to pack & eat.

Maybe this is a good year/goad to simplify your backpacking life? No need to get or store fuel or decide how much to carry. No pot, windscreen, stove, or possibly other fiddly things (heat exchanger, pot scrubber, etc etc). No issues with washing dishes, either the chore or the environmental aspect of that. Less fiddling around, when you're ready to eat you just start eating. I like it, in any event. The variety can be harder to maintain, but for modest length trips of the type that I think that most people typically do, that also shouldn't be a problem.

I'm a fan now, anyway, after having been quite a doubter before I tried it.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#182556 - 02/06/14 12:20 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: BrianLe]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By BrianLe
Quote:
"With fire bans imminent this year I'm guessing if I want to cook at all, ..."

My experience is that a significant number of people who "just know" that they wouldn't like eating only cold meals are in fact fine with them if they give that approach a fair shot and learn from the experiences of others what things to pack & eat.

Maybe this is a good year/goad to simplify your backpacking life? No need to get or store fuel or decide how much to carry. No pot, windscreen, stove, or possibly other fiddly things (heat exchanger, pot scrubber, etc etc). No issues with washing dishes, either the chore or the environmental aspect of that. Less fiddling around, when you're ready to eat you just start eating. I like it, in any event. The variety can be harder to maintain, but for modest length trips of the type that I think that most people typically do, that also shouldn't be a problem.

I'm a fan now, anyway, after having been quite a doubter before I tried it.


Great point Brian. I never eat hot meals day hiking and many times that's for all the meals in a day. I don't think I would have much problem switching to cold meals only. I will have to try this year.
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#182585 - 02/08/14 02:07 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: BrianLe]
bobito9 Offline
member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 408
you make an interesting case, Brian, it could be a much simpler approach. Although, to be honest, I enjoy the routine of cooking (I never use ready-to-eat freeze dried meals) and setting up my kitchen almost as much as the eating itself. And the joy of that morning cup of coffee! I'd have to pack no-doz! smile
Maybe we need a whole new thread just on how to make no-cook eating tolerable for an entire trip on the JMT, which is what I'm debating doing this summer.

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#182589 - 02/08/14 03:43 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: rockchucker22]
bamudd Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/13
Posts: 38
Ok so I'm kinda a stove noob. I mean, I've been using a canister stove for years, but I don't really actually know anything about the fine details.

I currently have a Primus Express (not the Ti model).

When I was a Boy Scout I used my Dad's Snow Peak stove. An early GigaPower, I think, but I'm not sure.

Both are under 4 oz (I think my current is 3.3), and both seem to cook pretty well. I honestly got the one I have because it was on Steepandcheap for a really good price right when I was looking to get my own since I started getting back into backpacking a few years ago.

How do you really compare stoves against each other? What are good models, what are bad models, and what's the difference?

Someone enlighten me!


Edited by bamudd (02/08/14 03:46 PM)

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#182590 - 02/08/14 04:30 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: bamudd]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Most name brand stove are pretty good. Duane is our local stove expert, I'm sure he'll be along with some valuable info. It also depends on your use, winter camping in sub freezing temps calls for a inverted canister or for you to warm up your canister prior to use. Look at BTUs, pot supports, and flame distribution. A small flame distribution is good for narrow pots while the reverse is true for wide pots. A good valve so you can simmer is also nice. Another thing to think about is effiency, a efficient stove may be worth a bit of extra weight as long as you save that weight in fuel. Depending on where your hiking you could also consider alcohol stoves and solid fuel like esbit.
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#182593 - 02/08/14 05:44 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: bamudd]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Bamudd, My first question to you is "why do you think you need a new one?" Second, what is your intended use?

There must be thousands of posts scattered across dozens of websites on stoves. They are one of the "big 3" of camping discussions, bags and shelters (tents, etc.) being the other two.

Stoves fall into several categories. i would first separate them by type of fuel-liquid (broken down further into types of liquid fuels), gas, and a few miscellaneous stoves that burn tablets or wood). A few stoves burn both liquid and gas.

Factors to consider:
1. use (general camping v. mountaineering, winter v. three season, solo or group cooking, for example);
2. weight;
3. design;
4. burn time;
4. cost.

Although we all would agree that some stoves are better than others because they are made better or designed better (sturdier pot stands, for one), after sorting out those factors, the rest often comes down to personal preference. I have a small selection of stoves and can point out the pros and cons of each one. I know there are better ones out there, but mine are long paid for and work reasonably well, so I see no point in buying any more, at least for now. smile


Edited by TomD (02/08/14 05:49 PM)
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#182596 - 02/08/14 06:16 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: TomD]
bamudd Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/13
Posts: 38
I don't think I need a new one. I'm just curious. I like to know lots of things about things, and while I've done tons of research and arguing and thinking about bags and shelters, I've never really done much thinking about stoves.

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#182597 - 02/08/14 06:20 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: bamudd]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2930
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By bamudd
I don't think I need a new one. I'm just curious. I like to know lots of things about things, and while I've done tons of research and arguing and thinking about bags and shelters, I've never really done much thinking about stoves.


What is this "need" of which you speak? Am unfamiliar with that particular term, especially in reference to just. one. more. stove.

Cheers,
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#182598 - 02/08/14 06:21 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: bamudd]
bamudd Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/13
Posts: 38
I guess what started me thinking about it was the problems my friend and I both had camping in 5 degree weather a few weeks ago. First time I've ever camped that cold, and neither my canister stove nor his alcohol stove worked particularly well.

Don't plan to go in that cold often, but I just got to thinking.

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#182599 - 02/08/14 06:23 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: Rick_D]
bamudd Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/13
Posts: 38
Ok, Rick D, so you're a stove geek. In this context, btw, geek is not at all meant as an insult. Tell me about your babies. Help me understand why it's something I should think about for considerations other than weight (and I'm not weight-crazy enough to put money into lightening from a 3.3 oz stove and 4 oz canister) or extreme climate.


Edited by bamudd (02/08/14 06:24 PM)

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#182606 - 02/08/14 08:04 PM Re: Stoves! [Re: BrianLe]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
My experience is that a significant number of people who "just know" that they wouldn't like eating only cold meals are in fact fine with them if they give that approach a fair shot and learn from the experiences of others what things to pack & eat.


I have to admit I'm on the doubter side of that line still.

I need hot coffee and a hot dinner. I can skip breakfast and munch on trail food all day while hiking but I can't think it'd be fun to go to bed on a cold meal. Most of my backpacking is done in the cooler months, so that has something to do with it, but I know you've done this in the cold too. That sounds tough.

That must be one of the leaps you have to be able to make to be a thru-hiker. After a week or two I'm afraid I'd be getting a bit wild eyed. Maybe not though. I don't eat a lot as it is, so I might do better than I'd imagine.

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