Hello this is my first post I'm a very young backpacker and need some help picking out some gear. OK first things first the temperature I'm going to be sleeping in is about 30 to 45 degrees. I need a new sleeping bag and I want it light and cheap so I'm thinking synthetic. So I was thinking that the 20 degree bag would be the obsessive choice as it will be lighter but I weigh about 95 pounds and am a very cold sleeper. So should I get the 0 degree bag to keep warmer??? Here are the two bags I'm looking at now but feel free to recommend other bags mt budget would be about 150$ and my max weight would be 4 pounds for 0 3 pounds for +20.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068BE...;pf_rd_i=507846
OR
http://www.amazon.com/Slumberjack-Degree...erjack+lonepine

Thanks for any help!

First, welcome aboard.

Second, synthetic is heavy. All things are relative, of course. If you are able to carry 50 lbs and not break a sweat, that's one thing. But most of us here look for comfort without weight, and a 5 lb sleeping bag for three season (spring - fall) backpacking ain't even in the picture.

Third, sleeping bag ratings are wildly overestimated in the case of 90% of the "cheap" bags out there. Neither of those bags are going to be warm as advertised. A REAL 0 degree bag will be sweaty and uncomfortable at freezing temps.

Take it from someone who started there and quickly ditched the cheap bag. You get only two of cheap, light and warm - you get to pick which two. You don't get all three.

I spent the majority of the money I spent on backpacking gear on sleeping stuff - I use a quilt and a properly insulated sleeping pad, not a bag. You'll want a pad regardless of what you use as you'll be cold underneath without one. Pads, unlike bags, can be light and cheap - however, comfort is highly variable. Some people do not like foam pads, some people can sleep on them. Foam is cheap and light - but bulky. I can't use foam pads so have insulated inflatables.

For a very cold sleeper - you need a good pad AND a good bag. Unfortunately the only way to do that on a budget will be bargain hunting or buying used.

Lori is right...synthetic bags are heavier and not as warm. But...if you don't have the money to spend, they should work in 35-40 degree weather just fine. Eventually you will want to trade up and get a better bag. But, just for the record I got my kids slumberjack synthetic bags that were 20 degree bags and they used them for years all over the western united states and always slept warm...:)

In addition to everything Lori said:

Research the EN13537 ratings for sleeping bags. Except for a very few top-of-the-line sleeping bags (such as Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, way out of your budget unless you find a used one), you can't trust the manufacturers' ratings, which (if not EN13537 tested) are pure fiction dreamed up by their marketing departments. A good writeup on EN13537 standards is here. As a cold sleeper, you want the "Comfort" rating, ostensibly for women. (Not all women are cold sleepers, and not all cold sleepers are women, but that's beside the point.) While there's a lot of criticism of these ratings, they're still far more accurate than manufacturers' marketing departments!

I've found that returning anything to amazon.com is a major hassle, involving among other things inflated shipping charges (you have to use their shipper). I would not shop there for anything I might possibly need to return, and sleeping bags and pads are definitely in that category. Try REI, EMS, backcountrygear.com (a sponsor of this site), backcountry.com (no relation to the previous). You'll get a lot more information and far better service. Backcountrygear.com even had a staff member with my (ample) hip measurements crawl into the sleeping bag I wanted to make sure the bag was big enough!

One bag you might look at, since you're on a budget, is the Kelty Cosmic Down. It comes in 20*F and 0*F versions and is EN13537 rated. It isn't as light as the high end down bags, but it's sure a lot lighter than the bags you're looking at! This bag is generally available at most high-volume sports chain stores such as Dick's and Sports Authority, often at a discount. It's tje recommended bag for Boy Scouts and others on a low budget.

You can increase the warmth of a bag by wearing more insulating clothing inside it, or using a vapor barrier if it's below freezing (the VB has to be under your insulating clothing, though). Just be sure the girth of the bag is big enough that wearing puffy outer clothing inside won't compress either your insulating clothing or the sleeping bag loft.

I agree with Lori that the warm pad is extra important. For 20*F (actually the Celcius equivalent), the EN13537 test uses a pad with an R value of 5. That's a lot warmer than most popular pads on the market.

Have you read the excellent articles on the home page of this site, left-hand column? They will help a lot with your gear selection process.

Well I think I'm going to have to just suck it up and buy a better sleeping bag. Can any one recommend a good down sleeping bag that's no more than 250 bucks? I like the kelty cosmic down 20 so any other like that would be great. Thanks for all the great answers!

After some research I found these two bags please tell me what you think of them here are the links.
http://www.amazon.com/Sierra-Designs-Deg...ds=sleeping+bag

http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-Light-Degree...ds=sleeping+bag

The rule on bags is this: "warm, light, cheap-pick any two." I have to disagree with NDWoods, or at least the way she expressed it. A synthetic bag accurately rated at 20F will be as warm as a down bag rated 20F, but it will be heavier, not less warm.

Aside from that, I have written several posts on buying used gear, so give that a thought. You should be able to find them using the search function. Example, I bought a $400 Marmot down bag in near new condition for $200 off of Craigslist. Granted it takes patience and a lot of research to know what you want or whether something is a deal or not, but deals are out there.

Discounters like Sierra Trading Post offer deals on new gear.

As for your original question, if you aren't going to be out in temps colder than 30F, a 20F bag should be fine, assuming that rating is accurate. My 23F rated bag is good to around 20F, if I am wearing my base layer, which I always do.

Just so you know, I'm not state of the art in my gear choices. I feel it is more important to know how to use the gear I have than to think the latest trend will somehow solve my backpacking problems. I do all my backpacking in the mountains of Colorado.

I use an inexpensive Alpine 20 sleeping bag without a pad, and I find I stay warm down to about 25 degrees. It is light weight, but bulky, which can be a problem. I also have a Sierra Designs 20 degree synthetic sleeping bag which is a little lighter, but has about the same comfort.

Wearing a hat makes a big difference in colder weather. I also eat a high fat meal an hour or so before going to bed.

Consider getting a woman's bag unless you are still growing, as it will be lighter and not as bulky.

If you are on a multi-day trip, try to lay the bag in the sun for an hour or so each day. This will dry the bag out and the sun is also a disinfectant. At least spread it out in the tent as soon as you arrive at the campsite.

Personally, I don't like the idea of an expensive bag as I tend to abuse mine a bit. If the weather is nice, I just cowboy camp, being careful not to lay on top of an ant hill. I find dirt is warmer than grass. I like synthetic bags because I can wash them, and it doesn't seem to hurt the temperature rating.

You can also pick your spot carefully. Naturally, you want to be a place where water won't collect if it rains. Cold air collects in hollows, so if you can get a little elevation above the bottom of the hollow, it can be warmer. If the goal is to be cooler on a hot night, sleep closer to the bottom.

If you learn to sleep without moving much, then you will be warmer as the air pockets will have time to warm up.

If you are a late sleeper, try to pitch the tent in an area that will get the first sun in the morning. The coldest time is usually in the first half hour after sunrise. It's nice to have the tent warm up quickly from the sun. Personally, I'm always up well before sunrise, and making my coffee and breakfast during this time so we can be ready to hit the trail quickly.

One day, I might get around to getting an expensive bag, but there always seems to be something else to use the money for.

You didn't ask about a tent. Stay away from the cheap WalMart tents unless there is zero chance of rain. They will leak after a few uses.

Take a look at the Kelty Lightyear Down 20º too.

I have one of these and it's a nice bag, keeps me nice and warm down to 32º which is the "Comfort Rating" for the bag. I think I paid $130 for mine after a little searching around.

Bill's post raises a good point. Some bag ratings are the EIN extreme limit, which is NOT the same as the comfort rating. Companies do this to fool you into thinking you are getting a better bag for the price. You are not; they are deliberately misleading you. A bag at the extreme rating will keep you alive if you have all your clothes on, but that is about it. Try not to get fooled; compare any rated bag with a top brand like Western Mountaineering to see if the specs compare as far as fill is concerned. If not even close, the rating is way off.

I am a small woman who also sleeps very cold. If you weigh 95 pounds you are smaller than me! If under 5'4" be sure to choose a bag that comes in short. I agree- get a woman's bag - they are warmer and fit us better. Pay attention to the hood. You MUST get inside the bag and cinch up the hood and see if it keeps out the drafts. For colder temperatures, you need a draft collar and a good draft tube for the zipper. I have had a zero degree bag in the past (unfortunately it got stolen) and now have a 10 degree bag. I never regret the extra warmth. Synthetics are good if you will be in very damp conditions for weeks on end. Otherwise down is better. There are a lot of factors to being warm at night, and the sleeping bag is just one. You can have a zero degree bag and still be cold at 30 degrees if you go to bed pre-chilled to the bone, are not hydrated, did not get a good quality dinner, have a poor sleeping pad, or not be willing to cinch up the hood. Any drafts that come inside the bag will rob the heat. The bag only slows down the loss of heat; your body has to MAKE the heat! That's where food, jumping jacks (I prefer a pre-bedtime brisk walk) and hydration matter. You also will get cold if you have to pee at night and try to hold it. Get up, go out, pee, and come back. This also gets your blood moving again! Snack at night if needed.

All great points! WD has hit the nail on the head.

Well thanks guy you have been great at giving me suggestions. I plan on doing most of my backpacking this summer so as of now I'm going to be looking at used bags on craigslist.

Yea TomD I didn't phrase it right...synthetics "soon" are not as warm as down I have found, losing their loft faster. Having said that, again, I put my kids in synthetic bags cuz they were young enough I was afraid they would have an "accident" and synthetics are more forgiving to wash ...but man I sure got my money's worth out of them. And when they were really done for I cut them off at the zipper and made a bag for my dog!:)

I agree totally. My Cats Meow is more like a 40F bag than a 20F after years of being in the stuff sack before I knew better. I think I remember you posting about the dog bag a while back. A great idea.