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#178889 - 08/04/13 11:27 AM Storing backpack outside of tent
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Hi Guys,

I have quite minimalist tent 'Moutain Hardware Direkt 2".
It is fine when I am alone, but when we are two I need to store one or both backpack outside of tent overnight.

To keep backpack outside dry I would like to have some closeable 100% waterproof ultralight bag. I don't think that common raincover is suitable for this because it is not covering backpack totally.

My backpack is usually 70L.

In the end it would be great if I could use this "night bag" use also as common rain cover.

Any suggestion how to solve this?

mira

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#178890 - 08/04/13 11:33 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1817
Loc: Napa, CA
In that situation we use a big black garbage bag. IT weighs nothing, and does the job. But we hike in the Sierra NEvada, where we don't usually get a lot of rain at night.
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check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#178891 - 08/04/13 11:38 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Get the thinner type of black plastic yard waste bag from a grocery store. One of those packs small and weighs about an ounce.

Not the best as a pack cover, but you can us it *inside* your pack as a pack liner.

Won't last too many days in the pack liner role; if you want something that holds up for a good long time, get a thicker "contractor" type bag of the same overall size from a hardware store. The one I use weighs nearly 3 oz, but I get a good thousand miles worth of backpacking out of one of those, perhaps more.

Even when using one of those, however, I typically carry one of the thin ones too, for exactly the sort of reason you mention --- it's handy to be able to store some things outside the tent at night. Or to sort of "stash" some things if doing a day hike but leaving some gear behind. Or base camping where you're not inclined to expose your tent to strong sunlight all day. Or you can cut one up to make a "poor man's windshirt" (really, a pullover sleeveless rain jacket) at need. Or drape over your tent at a strategic spot if you find your seam sealing job is not [any longer] completely effective --- moisture between the bag and your tent cause them to adhere well enough.

Pretty versatile item for about an ounce added weight.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#178892 - 08/04/13 11:45 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: balzaccom]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By balzaccom
In that situation we use a big black garbage bag. IT weighs nothing, and does the job.


It is not bad solution. I did the same actually, but strong wing can play noisily with plastic bag or even open it frown
Also a bit one-side breathable material would be good e.g. Pertex if the backpack is already bit wet.

One other use for this bag could be also for transporting my backpack on airplane.
It always suffers some scratches after handling on airport frown
It really sucks.

mira


Edited by mira.mikes (08/04/13 11:56 AM)

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#178894 - 08/04/13 11:54 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: BrianLe]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By BrianLe
Get the thinner type of black plastic yard waste bag from a grocery store. One of those packs small and weighs about an ounce.
Not the best as a pack cover, but you can us it *inside* your pack as a pack liner.


Not bad. But I also want to keep my padding on rucksack dry.
They get much quicker worn if you use them wet.

Originally Posted By BrianLe
Even when using one of those, however, I typically carry one of the thin ones too, for exactly the sort of reason you mention --- it's handy to be able to store some things outside the tent at night. Or to sort of "stash" some things if doing a day hike but leaving some gear behind. Or base camping where you're not inclined to expose your tent to strong sunlight all day. Or you can cut one up to make a "poor man's windshirt" (really, a pullover sleeveless rain jacket) at need. Or drape over your tent at a strategic spot if you find your seam sealing job is not [any longer] completely effective --- moisture between the bag and your tent cause them to adhere well enough.

Pretty versatile item for about an ounce added weight.


I carry plastic bag with me any time for similar reasons. wink
But any way I would prefer some bit more sturdy solution for bad weather condition.

mira

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#178895 - 08/04/13 12:09 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Well, what you're asking for doesn't exist in any way I know.

I use a trash bag and when walking in rain and not wanting pack to get wet, a poncho. I've not had a problem with durability.

For air travel there are duffel bags that packs will fit in. Don't think I would ever bring one on a backpacking trip, since they are heavy.
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#178896 - 08/04/13 12:42 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1775
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
One solution would be for you to buy a yard or so of 1.3 oz/yd silicon nylon and sew one together. Done this way you can have whatever features you wish. There is a kit available from RayWay for the same sort of thing.

If you don't know how to sew, this would be a good learners project. If a backpacker knows how to sew, even in the most rudimentary fashion, she/he can have a lot of great light, inexpensive, custom-made gear. If you can't sew you are dependent on an ever more fashion-oriented industry to provide you with what THEY think you need.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#178899 - 08/04/13 01:52 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: NorCal
I tote a trash compactor bag for this. Have found standard garbage and yard waste bags perforate and tear too easily.

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#178900 - 08/04/13 02:06 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: lori]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By lori
I use a trash bag and when walking in rain and not wanting pack to get wet, a poncho. I've not had a problem with durability.


I am using poncho as well for walking, but in hours lasting heavy rain I got my pack wet through.

Originally Posted By lori
For air travel there are duffel bags that packs will fit in. Don't think I would ever bring one on a backpacking trip, since they are heavy.


Yes duffel bags are too heavy frown

I am just thinking that maybe a bit sofisticated raincover could be my solution.
This raincover should have two closing:
1) normal walking ... hip and shoulder straps are not covered
2) night storing ... whole rucksack is covered

I still have to think about a bit more

mira

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#178901 - 08/04/13 02:13 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: Pika]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By Pika
One solution would be for you to buy a yard or so of 1.3 oz/yd silicon nylon and sew one together. Done this way you can have whatever features you wish. There is a kit available from RayWay for the same sort of thing.


I've checked RayWay but not sure which kit should be suitable for this task.
I think it could be challenge to do it by myself wink I've never sew before more than repairing my socks smile

Thinking to make raincover with two possible closing (described in previous post)

Any idea which RayWay kit ask?

mira

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#178902 - 08/04/13 02:50 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 679
I had our packs rained on last night and they were completely dry. Simple sil-nylon pack covers. Our packs are 60 liter but the elasticized covers would probably stretch much farther. The covers wrap around the bottom and a little around the shoulder straps. We just lean them against a tree or boulder. If it's raining lightly while hiking, they go on the packs, when pouring they get covered by poncho/tarps that haven't yet let us down. This system has worked for quite a few years. Our current ones are from Sea to Summit.
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#178903 - 08/04/13 03:47 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: bluefish]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1348
Loc: Seattle, WA
Bluefish,

Word of caution. I used to leave my pack out with the pack cover on as you describe. I quit doing so, however, after some varmint chewed up the pack during the night. Probably going after the salt from my sweat.

I now keep it inside the tent and sleep on it.

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#178904 - 08/04/13 03:59 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: bluefish]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By bluefish
The covers wrap around the bottom and a little around the shoulder straps. We just lean them against a tree or boulder. If it's raining lightly while hiking, they go on the packs, when pouring they get covered by poncho/tarps that haven't yet let us down. This system has worked for quite a few years. Our current ones are from Sea to Summit.


Yep ... Sea to Summit
This is what I was searching for ... Even I hoped in somewhat lighter ... about 300g would be acceptable for me.

http://www.seatosummit.com/products/display/34

mira

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#178906 - 08/04/13 05:23 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By mira.mikes


And here are two more airporters wich can serve as raincover too:
Bit lighter than Sea-to-Summit 370 g for midlle size
https://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/products/backpacks-and-hipbags/accessories/undercover

And this is included with backpack ... no idea if they selling it also separatelly:
http://en.wolfcamper.com/hiker-60.html

mira




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#178918 - 08/05/13 09:54 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: DJ2]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 679
Good point, DJ, I had a night in the Catskills where I kept a pile of sticks in front of the tent to throw at the invading hordes of porcupines. A friend had his boots eaten
by quill pigs, but we had duct tape. The remnants of the boots and a whole bunch of silvery grey made it back down the trail. I've had to repel marmots, chipmunks and raccoons at different times. I hang our packs, much like food bags ,when in known pesky critter turf. Our tents have always been tight for both of us and packs .
_________________________
Charlie

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#178922 - 08/05/13 11:26 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
ndwoods Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 572
Loc: Santa Cruz CA, Sierra Hiker
My pad is only a torso pad so my pack goes under my feet...padding on the back faces my feet...can you use yours for your padding ?
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#178929 - 08/05/13 12:13 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: ndwoods]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By ndwoods
My pad is only a torso pad so my pack goes under my feet...padding on the back faces my feet...can you use yours for your padding ?


Hmm ... interesting way to go.
Unfortunately my current backpack is not suitable for this ...
I will consider this alternative when buying next one.

thanks!

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#178942 - 08/05/13 10:11 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
I'm curious why people are so obsessed with keeping their pack dry? It's not made of cotton so it holds little water and dries fast. Mine is always under my legs at night, but I don't even think about it when hiking in a downpour.

Is the theory that if it doesn't get wet they don't need to worry about waterproofing any contents? If so what are you leaving in it at night that can't get wet?

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#178946 - 08/06/13 07:41 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: topshot]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 679
The straps and hip belt wetting through suck. Especially when they freeze. I hate bringing packs in the tent, as we've gotten older and a comftorable sleeping arrangement helps the hike. I just try to stay dry and clean as possible because its comftorable to me. What's in my pack usually varies by season and region.
Maybe it'd be better to not worry about it, but the small amount of care it takes makes sense to me.
_________________________
Charlie

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#178958 - 08/06/13 10:55 AM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: topshot]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By topshot
I'm curious why people are so obsessed with keeping their pack dry? It's not made of cotton so it holds little water and dries fast. Mine is always under my legs at night, but I don't even think about it when hiking in a downpour.

Wet clothes and sleeping bag are disaster when temperature is low!

Originally Posted By topshot
Is the theory that if it doesn't get wet they don't need to worry about waterproofing any contents? If so what are you leaving in it at night that can't get wet?


sat phone, solar charger, clothes , food etc ... all this I want to keep dry

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#178962 - 08/06/13 12:16 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
From various responses, I suggest that you get yourself a lightweight pack cover. If it fits your budget, consider getting this in cuben fabric then --- very light, and repairable with duct tape:
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/pack_cover.shtml

I used this model (and their cuben rain skirt too) on the CDT a couple of years ago, and it held up well to occasional use over that 4+ month period. Got one little hole poked in it and indeed, easy to repair with duct tape.

If the "lean it against a tree at night" solution doesn't work for you, you can carry that pack cover AND a 1 ounce yard waste bag and still come in way, way lighter than a 370 gram mostrosity --- IMO. Not as durable, not suitable for using as checked baggage, but if you have that as a problem, I'd solve it separately, in a way that keeps your on-trail weight low.

Lots of approaches to this stuff, this is just my best guess for you based on what you've been saying ...
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#178966 - 08/06/13 02:02 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1775
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
In your OP, you stated that your concern was keeping the pack left outside at night dry. But, here, you state:
Quote:
Wet clothes and sleeping bag are disaster when temperature is low!

Do you plan to leave your clothes and sleeping bag outside in the pack at night? Most of us use our sleeping bags for sleeping and clothes as a pillow.

And:
Quote:
sat phone, solar charger, clothes , food etc ... all this I want to keep dry

Everything but the food should be in a waterproof bag of its own and kept under cover at night. The food should be kept either in a distant bear canister or hung from a tree some distance from your shelter. Of course if you are writing from someplace where bears are not an issue then you simply need to secure your food from mice and such and then keep it under our shelter with you. Most of us here don't leave much of anything in our packs at night; most of what we carry is in use.
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#178968 - 08/06/13 04:48 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6597
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Why are you leaving your clothing and sleeping bag in your pack when you're in your tent?

I would keep my electronics inside for the same reason. If it's below freezing, you want them in the bottom of your sleeping bag so the batteries don't freeze.

I use my pack as a pillow, so even in a cramped one-person tent (I had one of those for two years, even more cramped because I was sharing it with my dog), there was always room for it inside. The dog's pack, though, stayed outside in a garbage or trash compactor bag.


_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#178969 - 08/06/13 05:00 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: OregonMouse]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
All of my electronics are in their own separate waterproof ziplock. All my food is hanging in a tree. My clothes are either a pillow, or in a separate waterproof bag in my tent. I could always put the clothes outside because they are in their own bag.

However, when I was younger with a bigger pack, I would keep it outside. I would usually hang it on a branch with the pack cover on it. The tree itself keeps the straps dry, and the cover keeps the rest dry from blown rain. If you pick your tree correctly, not much water will hit it in a downpour, covered or not.
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#178971 - 08/06/13 08:55 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: mira.mikes]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By mira.mikes
Wet clothes and sleeping bag are disaster when temperature is low!


sat phone, solar charger, clothes , food etc ... all this I want to keep dry

Why would your clothes, bag, electronics, etc be outside at night??? Your food should be in a tree, not your pack.

I guess I misread your first post, assuming you HAD a pack cover already but weren't happy with its coverage. So it seems you're REALLY concerned about rain during the day, not the night. I put my clothes and bag in a trash compactor bag and electronics in ziplocs. Since I do freezer bag cooking, so is my food. Pretty simple.

If by some chance you were to fall into a river, no pack cover will keep your gear dry while mine will be perfectly fine.

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#178974 - 08/06/13 10:35 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: topshot]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6597
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Yes, even the best of us have been known to slip and fall during a dicey stream ford--been there, done that! blush Anything that shouldn't get wet should either be inside a waterproof pack liner or a dry bag. Both should be tested before each trip, just to be sure. My critical insulation all survived the dunking and stayed perfectly dry, even with several inches of water sloshing in the bottom of my pack (where the sleeping bag was). There are a number of commercial pack liners, or you can use a 2 mil trash compactor bag (make sure it's unscented; a lot of them these days are perfumed) or cut down a 2 to 2.5 mil contractor trash bag to fit your pack. To line smaller pockets, turkey roasting bags are great. You might check out Nylofume pack liner bags which have had some great reviews and are reportedly sturdier and more odor-resistant than the somewhat overrated OP sacks.

My only electronic devices are my camera and PLB. Each of those is in its inividual padded ziplock bag.

I do use a pack cover but that's only because I use my pack as a pillow at night and don't want my sleeping bag rubbing on a wet surface. I don't count on the pack liner to keep anything but the front and sides of the pack dry. It certainly won't keep the pack contents dry in case of immersion or heavy sustained rain. However, with the pack cover on, you can lean the pack against a tree or log at night in such a way that the uncovered back side is underneath and doesn't get wet. The other possibility is to put your pack inside the pack liner bag at night (turning the pack liner inside out if the pack is wet). You do need to be careful not to get the inside surface of the pack liner wet, though. You can get pack covers weighing 1 oz. or pack liners weighing 2 oz., the latter with a dry bag closure, from ZPacks. I highly recommend their work. My only relationship with them is as a very satisfied customer.

_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#179010 - 08/07/13 09:40 PM Re: Storing backpack outside of tent [Re: OregonMouse]
mira.mikes Offline
member

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 35
Hi Guys,

many thanks for you replies ... there were many inspirative thoughts. I now have think about them.
I am just in process of making my hiking style bit lighter but still should save and comfortable enough.
You helped me a lot!

mira

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