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#177236 - 05/21/13 08:08 PM Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Heading out shortly to the Emigrant Wilderness in Cali would like weight under 30 pounds total (not counting my boots). This is including what I'm wearing.

Am I missing anything I should have with me for this trip? Anything I can drop? I'm 2.5 pounds more than I want. Backpack is a bit heavy - but it fits (I've tried on everything that REI had at the time and the local store, only one that felt good)

Thanks!

weight (oz) item
65.61 backpack

Sleeping gear
60.67 sleeping bag
5.68 sleeping bag stuff sack
9.63 sleeping pad

tent
35.98 tent
3.35 stakes - 10
2.58 tent stuff sack
10.19 tent poles

water
29.63 32 fluid ounces of water
3.00 water purifier (buying sawyer squeeze 32oz)

Misc
12.38 GPS
23.74 camera
1.69 headlamp
9.10 first aid kit (I can make this lighter - on my to-do list )
1.13 map
0.00 compass

Personal
1.83 tp + sanitizer
1.38 toothbrush / paste
1.02 sunblock
0.95 lotion
0.56 mosquito repellent
0.39 glasses sack
0.32 lip balm
0.28 sweat towel
0.00 baby wipes
0.00 antiperspirant

Food Stuff
45.29 bear canister + op sack
4.41 stove (buying Esbit titanium + fuel tabs)
3.84 cup
9.63 pot
0.74 spoon
9.45 2 breakfasts (trail bread other two)
2.43 bedtime snacks (cheese/chocolate)
31.89 4 dinners in packaging (I'll take out of packaging and re-weigh)
3.25 hot chocolate
1.94 sugar
0.00 trail bread
1.45 tea / coffee

Clothing not worn
1.73 baklava
16.61 blue fleece
10.41 rain jacket
6.98 river crossing sandals
5.86 heavy weight thermal bottoms
0.42 gaiters
4.80 socks, wool (sleeping)
2.47 lite gloves

Wearing
1.52 sun hat
2.05 underwear 4pr (well I won't wear them all at once)
0.00 socks 2pr
2.01 bra
3.77 knee brace
13.97 rei pants
3.88 wool tank top
8.68 rei long sleeved shirt
10.41 poles(if I buy new ones frown ) (current=18.34 ounces)
------------------------------------------------
total: 490.98oz aka 30.69 pounds

This is a solo trip.

(sorry about the formatting I can't get it to do tables)


Edited by Heather-ak (05/22/13 12:04 AM)

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#177239 - 05/21/13 08:46 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Wow! Everybody else is probably just fine with this, but you are going to make me convert from SI units to pounds ... and 3 sig figs.... laugh. Haven't done that in a while.

Seriously though, it would be easier to evaluate if things were grouped together better. Example; the tent stuff is all over the place. Tent body, poles, stakes, and stuff bag all add up to over 5 pounds. There is 2 extra pounds right there if you are willing to pay for a lighter tent(assuming there are 2 of you). My "3 man" is 3 lb 3 oz. I don't bring the stuff sack. Would be nice to have al the cooking stuff together, clothing...ect. Easier to check it out without missing something.

Really minimize the amount of toothpaste, soap, deodorant, meds, ect. Bring just enough for your 4 days. I have little containers for much of this stuff and my deodorant is a stick in a baggy; no real container.

You do have heavy weight thermal bottoms and polar fleece pants. Do you really need both of these this time of year?

You all ready know this, but make sure all your batteries are fresh.

So much of the other stuff is so much personal preference that I don't really know what to say other than have a good time.

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#177240 - 05/21/13 09:09 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: skcreidc]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2123
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Do you really need a stuff sack for the sleeping bag? I haven't used one in years; I just stuff it into the bottom of the pack, and let it go at that. Its never gotten wet there. Not much weight saved there, but it sounds like every ounce (gram?) counts.

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#177241 - 05/21/13 09:11 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6786
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Heather, a suggested organization for a gear list is on the home page of this site, www.backpacking.net (look at the 27 pound, 7 day gear list in the left-hand column).

For evaluation, organization and packing of gear, it really helps to think of your gear in terms of systems instead of individual items. Here, just as an example, are mine: Clothing worn and other items worn or carried (technically not part of pack weight), clothing carried, shelter and sleeping, pack (including stuff sacks and pack liner), kitchen/hydration, navigation, other "essentials" (which may include first aid and hygiene) and the inevitable "other." I list separately the items that vary in weight for each trip--food, water, fuel and some items I need for medical conditions.

Your classifications may vary, but I've found that it really helps to group together all items that are used for the same function.

Admittedly, it's almost impossible to format a gear list on a forum! I once spent hours and hours converting a spreadsheet to text and then trying to edit it on a forum (not this one). It still came out almost impossible to read! I was so discouraged that I never tried it again. I really should investigate google docs!

Unless your gear list is for the non-US folks among us, ounces would probably be a better choice for weight units for most of us to evaluate.

This is a gentle hint for a little reformatting of your list? It would really help if you really want us to dig in and tear it apart!

One principle is to take only the amount of clothing needed to keep you warm and dry in the worst expected conditions when worn all at the same time. The only exception is at least one pair of spare socks. Duplicate clothing items that aren't needed are one of the biggest sources of excess weight. Just be sure those "expected conditions" are lower than the average low temperature--I go for 5*F above the record low.

I don't take deodorant; the smell attracts bugs and bears. Everyone else on the trail smells the same; why should i be different? I leave the deodorant in the car at the trailhead with some wipes to freshen up for the trip home.


Edited by OregonMouse (05/22/13 12:34 AM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#177242 - 05/21/13 09:12 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: skcreidc]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2184
Loc: Napa, CA
Skcreidc gave you some good input. For me, you've got two many bottoms and too many tops!

Of course it depends on what time of year, but we don't take a puffy jacket to this area in the summer. If it really does get cold we layer on our tank top, long-sleeved shirt, fleece, and rain jacket. But I don't think we've ever done that in the summer.

Pants are a pair of convertible hiking pants, and a pair of PJ pants to sleep in (keeps the bag clean).

And deodorant? Really?

_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#177245 - 05/21/13 09:24 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Hey! Something else...some of this weight should be loaded on your partner...or am I missing something?

And balzacomm, sometimes a man likes to feel "fresh"...like when I'm sharing the tent with my wife. Oop...tmi again


Edited by skcreidc (05/21/13 09:26 PM)

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#177246 - 05/21/13 11:47 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: skcreidc]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I'm NOT OCD (obsessive compulsive), no matter what my husband and co-workers and family say! grin... well maybe a tiny bit.

I only camp out of state once a year and I wasn't exactly sure what it would be in the Sierras, and I hate being cold!

I've removed the puffy coat and the pants for significant weight savings.

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#177247 - 05/21/13 11:48 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I haven't had any luck not using a compression sack in my pack - it just poofs up too much. This is the bag that came with it and I'm going to see if I have a lighter one stashed away.

smile

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#177248 - 05/21/13 11:50 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: OregonMouse]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Yeah the list was in weight order, from highest to lowest. I've reformatted and am re-posting here in a second (with ounce weights as well).

The deodorant is actually anti-antiperspirant - and it is a mental thing - I sweat more than anyone else I know and I can't not wear it - strange hangup, I know blush

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#177258 - 05/22/13 10:21 AM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
I would not take a bear cannister unless it is required. I do not think they are required in Emigrant Wilderness. Your route is in timber and you should be able to find a good branch for hanging the food.

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#177259 - 05/22/13 10:26 AM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
There are a few recent trip reports of that area that are posted on High Sierra Topix forum. Still around freezing at night.

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#177260 - 05/22/13 11:32 AM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: wandering_daisy]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2184
Loc: Napa, CA
Bears cans are not required in Emigrant...but we still use one. Otherwise, we spend too much time looking around for a tree that meets all the requirements...and then slinging the line.

And we are a little tired of seeing old bear bags hanging in trees at various campsites.
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#177264 - 05/22/13 12:52 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: wandering_daisy]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I do not have any experience hanging. Someone might lend me an ur-sack, but I haven't decided if I'll take him up on that (the bear sacks aren't rodent proof and the rodent proof sacks aren't bear proof.)

Taking out some of the cold weather gear lightened the load quite a bit and I might have lighted as much as I can without buying a new tent.

WD how is your trip planning going - are you doing any big summer trips this year?

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#177267 - 05/22/13 01:32 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
The emigrant is next door to yosemite.... I would not trust an ursack. I would rent a bearikade.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#177274 - 05/22/13 03:55 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: lori]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6786
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Oops, this is supposed to be for Heather!

Thanks for the reformat; it's far easier to work through.

Looking at your overall weight, subtracting out the items worn or carried, gives you a total pack weight of 27 lbs. Of course there are a few items with no weight yet, but I presume none will be heavy. That is really not too bad, although a lot more than I'd want for 4 days!

I personally would take the puffy jacket instead of the fleece, depending on which is lighter. For warmth they're probably the same; it's just that you don't need both. And cut the first aid a bit. On the toilet articles, are you taking only the amount of lotions, sunscreen, bug repellent, etc. that you need for the trip in tiny containers? There's no point in carrying a big container even if it's half empty--it will still have enough contents for a dozen or more trips.

Here are some things that stand out as a LOT heavier than what I use are (rounding off to pounds). Admittedly, I don't live in Alaska, but I do backpack in places like the northern Rockies at high altitude.

Pack: Yours 4 lb.; mine 2
Sleeping bag: yours almost 4 lb., mine (20*) 1 1/2. What kind of bag do you have? If it's one for Alaskan winters, you should consider something a little lighter for summer use. Not a summer bag, but what here in the lower 48 is a 3-season bag.
Tent: Yours, 3 1/4 lbs., my 2-person tent is 2, my older one-person is 1 3/4. (I'm ignoring my pricey $$$ 1 lb. cubenfiber tent)
Your pad, though, is 3 oz. lighter than mine!

I understand that you don't want to get new gear at this point, and that you live in Alaska, so these comparisons are for future reference, not this trip. I won't comment further except that there are lighter versions available that will hold up to nasty weather. In the future, if you will be doing a number of solo trips, you might consider a solo tent. Also for the future, a tent that uses your trekking poles for support will save the weight of your current poles.

What I would like to address are those stuff sacks: A couple of dry bags, one for your sleeping bag and one for your insulating clothing: mine (Sea to Summit UltraSil) weigh 1.8 oz. for the 20L (for your sleeping bag) and 1.1 oz. for the 8L (for your insulating clothing). (My sleeping bag goes into a 13L dry bag, but we'll ignore that for this trip.) A silnylon stuff sack for your tent would weigh about 1.2 oz. These or something similar might be worth the purchase in weight savings.

I notice the lack of either a waterproof pack liner or the above mentioned dry bags. IMHO, you need one or the other. If you're going soon, you may encounter higher stream flows. Having slipped and fallen during a ford myself blush, I strongly urge you to make sure your critical insulation will stay dry even if your pack is totally immersed for 2-3 minutes. Stuff sacks are not waterproof (even if the fabric is waterproof, the closure isn't.) Dry bags are also a bit easier for compacting the sleeping bag. If you prefer a pack liner, a package of 2-mil trash compactor bags (make sure they are unscented!) will last you for years. Since you have to compress the sleeping bag anyway, I'd suggest the dry bag route.

Clothing: 2 sets of undies (one worn) should be sufficient. You can rinse them (well away from water sources, please) at the same time you rinse out your hiking socks. Mine are Ex-Officio, highly breathable, dry in half an hour from my body heat if i put them on wet, well worth the cost because I've been wearing mine for everyday for almost 5 years now.

I personally would grit my teeth and take the bear canister. I've been to Yosemite only once, but I got a good look at what their bears can do. Except during hunting season, bears don't really care about park boundaries! At least it makes a great seat in camp!

Speaking of bears, I hope you're taking a balaclava and not baklava! The bears would love the latter!!! laugh


Edited by OregonMouse (05/22/13 04:31 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#177277 - 05/22/13 04:10 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
As you've figured out, a new tent and sleeping bag will more than do the job of getting you to the weight you want. Just takes $$$$.

You have trees on your property? Practice at home. But you might just want to play it safe and bring the canister. That would get rid of another 2 lbs though.

Water proofing just in case for stream crossings is something to think about. Make sure that no matter what, you have dry stuff to get into after a drenching.

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#177281 - 05/22/13 05:41 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: OregonMouse]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I sleep REALLY cold - so my 0 degree bag is okay at frost temps for me (which is why I have thermal bottoms to sleep in.) I also learned that part of my hip pain is caused by being too cold when I'm sleeping (I had this happen this winter at home on a new mattress - husband moved the fan and it was going right through my blanket and I had the same exact hip pain that I have while camping.)

Brand new pack (well used twice) - the lighter packs just didn't fit me, I really wanted them to, but it came down to fit mad

The tent, well I want a Light-heart Duo... but I haven't gotten it past the other half yet. Next year though!

I have several sizes of dry bags and will check them out tonight. I haven't been able to find the unscented compactor bags locally.

And while I don't want to give out my exact dates, due to security reasons, this trip is fairly soon.

I'm taking tiny containers of my toiletry items, though I may have filled said containers - will double check that! I also think re-packaging my food will help (I have a mix of freeze-dried and my own home made stuff.)

I appreciate all the help!


Edited by Heather-ak (05/23/13 01:39 PM)
Edit Reason: actually not cold at frost, but I wouldn't want to do any colder without warm clothing - :)

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#177291 - 05/22/13 10:18 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2184
Loc: Napa, CA
If you want to PM me, we have cabin right outside of Emigrant, and know the area VERY well...
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#177292 - 05/22/13 10:24 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
Other than your backpack, I'd definitely invest in a newer bag. If you need a supposedly 0 bag to be comfy at 32, there's something wrong with the 0 bag.

Not sure how much time you'd have to stop, but shouldn't have a problem finding unscented compactor bags in CA. I use Hefty brand. They don't say unscented on the box but they aren't.

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#177296 - 05/23/13 12:52 AM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: topshot]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6786
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
A sleeping bag rated at 0* (for men and warm sleepers) should be good for 10* for women and those who sleep cold. What kind of bag do you have? I suspect the rating is way off!

As mentioned, I use the dry bags rather than a pack liner. However, I've been told to look for brand name (not supermarket brand) trash compactor bags (like Hefty) at hardware stores, such as Ace rather than at supermarkets.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#177300 - 05/23/13 10:36 AM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
If you are freezing in a 0-degree bag at 32-degrees, your bag may be wearing out or inefficient or your sleeping pad may be insufficient (getting cold from bottom). Also, any gap in the hood will let in cold air. I have a 2-oz detachable down park hood that I take when I anticipate cold conditions. That with a balaclava really solves the cold air from the top problem. I sleep really cold too, and have a 10-degree down bag and I have to have the hood totally tightened when temperatures get near freezing. My problem is getting the bag warmed up in the first place. Once the bag is warmed, it is really good to well below freezing. I take a short brisk hike before going to bed, hop inside with under-layer only so my body heat gets distributed into the bag and THEN put on my insulating layers if needed.

I personally would trust an Ursack in Emigrant, however, I would hang it high enough so rodents cannot get into it. Avoid camping in well-used campsites and pay attention to bear signs, and camp away from trails (about quarter mile). But I do agree that the bear can is quite handy and easier to use. And if taking the bear can makes you worry less and sleep better than the 2 pounds is worth it.

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#177301 - 05/23/13 10:43 AM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
My summer trips have been delayed a bit but still hope to get out soon. Several family crisis have resulted in most of my time lately spent with a 93-year-old (in and out of hospital) or 2-5 year old grandchildren! Plans for the Sierra unless forest fires close the wilderness, then I would go to the Wind Rivers (they have a fair snowpack this year).

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#177303 - 05/23/13 01:01 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: wandering_daisy]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6786
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
W_D, sorry to hear about the family crises! Been there, done that! Family is precious and has to come first!

I am also kept close to home by my dog's situation and by frantic sewing (which I'm not good at!) of Civil War-era clothing for the 150th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg. I hope to make up for that later in the summer.

I haven't kept track of the Wind Rivers snowpack because (for a change) I don't plan to go this year (after having my plans thwarted two years in a row). As with you, local conditions could change my mind!

Heather, I didn't think about the sleeping pad--my bad, since a few years ago I suffered through two cold nights from that cause. Both nights were below the rating for my sleeping bag, but I wore all the clothing I had insde. I was nice and warm on top while my underside was shivering! A good warm pad (at least R5) is worth its weight in gold for us cold sleepers!

I actually think you'll be fine with your current gear, as long as you add waterproofing (dry bags for insulation or pack liners). For each trip, it's a good idea to evaluate afterwards--what you didn't use, what you really didn't need and, of course, what you didn't bring and should have....


Edited by OregonMouse (05/23/13 01:09 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#177304 - 05/23/13 01:24 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: wandering_daisy]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
It is the same bag I used in Yosemite with you a couple of years ago and it worked out temperature wise perfect - "North Face Snowshoe Sleeping Bag: 0 Degree Climashield Prism" - I've been really careful about storing it too. It is possible that they over-rated it though. I will try your brisk walk idea and adding the layers after warming up the bag (I'll briskly walk while eating my fatty bedtime snack and drinking some water to make sure I'm fully hydrated - should have all my bases covered!)

I'm not freezing at frost temps - I'm just about perfect at that temp, it is just if it gets any colder. At frost temps I do have the draft guard firmly in place and the hood up tightly. One idea someone brought up at work, is I usually hike until I'm exhausted or it is dark (and here in Alaska that means until I'm exhausted) and that the exhaustion could be contributing to my coldness.

I have upgraded since that trip on my sleeping pad - I now have a shorty Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Mattress. I have noticed the hip pain has been reduced since I've gotten the new sleeping pad.

I'm wishy-washy on the URSack only because I hate to borrow equipment - as of this moment I'm thinking I'll take it to save the weight.

Thanks!

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#177305 - 05/23/13 02:00 PM Re: Trip contents for Emigrant Wilderness [Re: Heather-ak]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6786
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Aha, I think we may have an answer to your sleeping bag issue! Synthetic insulation deteriorates in a few years because it loses a little loft every time it's compressed. I'll bet that's what's happening with yours! Generally the average life of a synthetic sleeping bag is about 5-6 years. You might want to start saving up for a high quality down bag. Yes, down bags cost a lot, but, properly cared for, they last far longer! Cost per year of life for high quality down is the same or less as for synthetic. Down is a lot lighter and compresses more without hurting it as long as you are careful to fluff it up for storage.

It does help to exercise vigorously just before retiring to get your metabolism going. That way you generate enough body heat to warm up the sleeping bag quickly when you get inside.

The incident I described about shivering through the night was on a regular NeoAir--I returned it to REI right after that trip. Unless yours is one of those new All Season ones, that also at least partly explains your being cold! My current pad is an R5 rated insulated pad from the late, lamented KookaBay (no longer available). If it gives out, I'll probably look at the Exped UL7 Downmat. I won't even consider a pad with an R rating of less than 5 any more! Sometimes comfort is more important than weight!

Be sure to check the directions on the Ursack website about pulling the closure really tight (it takes some work!) and putting a knot there. That will keep the rodents out. And practice the figure 8 knot to tie it around the tree.

I hope you have a really good time on your trip!


Edited by OregonMouse (05/23/13 02:05 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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