First off I never once said mountianeering Bivy, second I never said I used a Bivy instead of a tent. I'm not sure why if someone does something other than your preferred method they are wrong. You know differing opinions are ok, we all can do things differently and not be wrong. Unless you have personally used the gear in question, refrain from an uneducated blurtings. It doesn't look good on you!

Just a moderator warning here that personal attacks are not tolerated on this forum...

Rockchucker, you did imply in your posts, undoubtedly unintentionally, that you use that Katabatic bivy as a stand-alone bivy. That was certainly the impression I got from your posts; it wasn't just Lori. If you're using it under a tarp, that's what it was intended for.

Since many beginners read these posts, it's a good idea to be absolutely clear so nobody is misled! That's my concern and I know it's Lori's as well. There was no intent to insult you; it's just that clarification was badly needed to keep others from making what could be a fatal error.

IMHO, it's rather unfortunate that the same term, "bivy," is used for two different types of gear.

It does not make sense to me that "bivy" can be used for what is essentially a sleeping bag cover. And it would be a miserable mistake to make, taking a water resistant six ounce sleeping bag cover and using it as a standalone bivy.

And no, nothing personal was intended... I've met people who can't seem to parse the instructions that came with a tent, let alone what's said on forums, and it does pay to be clear about the differences between similar items that are intended to be used differently.

I apologize to Lori, my post was heated and harsh. I always carry a msr e-wing poncho tarp to compliment the Bivy if needed. And for backpacking in general I would take a tent over a Bivy any day. When you day hike 2-3 times a week 6-12 miles all off trail like I do you will carry minimal overnight gear, which for me means a Bivy AND poncho tarp. I spent 4 rainy nights in this set up last year on top of Chatovic. I know it works as intended.

Once more I'm sorry if I offended anyone involved. I was just coming from a slightly different angle.

Lori, parse? No comprende.:) I'll have to look that up.
Duane

Parsing or syntactic analysis is the process of analysing a string of symbols, either in natural language or in computer languages, according to the rules of a formal grammar. The term parsing comes from Latin pars (ōrātiōnis), meaning part (of speech).[1][2]

I thought parse was that little green stuff they put on your plate at a restaurant.

Sorry, long hard day at work; I needed a little humor, and this was about as little as I could manage.

I parse data all day, but sometimes I still have a hard time parsing written instructions and forum postings (and even my own are no exception

Duane

That night that we spent on Broken Top it got down to about 15 degrees and I had a Marmot Pinnacle 15 degree bag. My silnet bivy tent slid off the hill and I ended up sleeping under the stars in just the sleeping bag with a down coat and down pants on inside. Since the shell is made of dryloft, I do not need a bivy sack. You generally would use a bivy bag for emergency and get in it with your climbing partner, it was not considered an accesory to a sleeping bag. I think the bivy/tarp concept is because modern bags save weight in the shells thus you use an external shell - a bivy. Kind of like a tent footprint is only needed because they use too thin of material in the floor so you add an extra one - a footprint.

A bivy does add warmth though and the combination of a cut down old bibler bivy sack and a UL sleeping bag with a non-water proof shell works for me on nights that go from sort of warm to sort of cold.
Jim

Jim, my original intent was to get a shelter/shelter system that would get me by and be the lightest at this time. The bare bones ZPacks hexamid (a shaped tarp) was to me my rain cover and the noseeum topped bivy with cuben fiber bathtub type bottom my bug protection and water-under-the-shelter protection. Too cramped, I guess the little bit of show me came out, so I have a buyer for the bivy and will send the tarp to get bug netting added, making it a tent then, gaining only an oz. for the exchange.
It was cold up there where we camped, the wind was no help.
Duane