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#176226 - 04/05/13 02:48 PM Trip Leader Best Practices *****
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
In my region we're building a new backpacking course, and as part of that we thought it would be helpful to assemble a sort of "best practices" document for both new and not-so-new trip leaders. The point here would be to aggregate ideas about LEADING trips, not just generic "how to do backpacking better" ideas.

We realize that the relatively few of us aren't going to think of all relevant trip-leading tips & tricks, so we hope that others will help (via this thread)!

I'll add a few, each as a separate entry, and hope to see other ideas here.

Thanks in advance!
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Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#176227 - 04/05/13 02:49 PM Pervasive Map Use [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Keep your map handy. At an intersection and/or perhaps at a viewpoint where a decent compass arc of surrounding distant landscape can be viewed, pull out your map, and ask others to pull out their maps. If they don’t have them handy, encourage them to keep them handy (for example, in the cargo pocket of hiking pants). Have folks orient their maps, ask them to estimate where they might be. If distant terrain features can be seen, ask them to suggest what they’re looking at and how to use those or other features to help keep track of where they’re at.
Later that same or the next day, do it again. Try to get folks in the habit of tracking where they are, of taking personal responsibility for “staying found” rather than just relying on the leader.
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Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#176228 - 04/05/13 02:51 PM Sustainable pace, rest step [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Another "teaching point" (the best teaching occurs in-context):

At a point where the trail is going relatively steeply uphill, talk about use of the rest step (some of us, at least, sort of unconsciously shift into a rest step when the pitch suggests that). This is then a good start to a more general discussion of setting and maintaining a long-term sustainable pace, the “changing gears on a bicycle” analogy.
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Brian Lewis
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#176229 - 04/05/13 02:52 PM Group review of a volunteer’s gear [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Another "teaching point" (the best teaching occurs in-context):

Early beginner trips tend to have a fair bit of time available in the late afternoon and evening. For trips where one or more people haven’t purchased all of their gear yet, it can be both helpful and fun/interesting to ask for someone to volunteer to lay out their gear and gather around to discuss it. The point isn’t to critique their gear selections in a negative way (!), but just to foster discussion. For just a selection of gear items, ask why they selected a particular item, what trade-offs they considered. Ask if they have an idea of the weight & cost. Ask how they like it, and if they were starting again whether they would buy the same item.
Make sure this is a group discussion and not just you talking.
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Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#176230 - 04/05/13 02:53 PM Bear Bagging [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Another "teaching point" (the best teaching occurs in-context):

There are of course variants on this, but assemble two groups of 2 or 3 people each, and each uses a different technique to bear bag --- perhaps one does PCT method and the other uses Counterbalance. You do the minimum to tell them how to do this, they use their own materials. Then get together afterwards to look at the results and --- in a friendly, supportive way --- “critique”. Ask which method they like best and why. Ask how bear proof they think the results really are (given that black bears can for the most part climb trees a lot better than we can), keeping the “8 feet up and 4 feet out” rule of thumb in mind (noting that some sources suggest even more distance either up or out from the tree trunk).
Finally, if this is something you can and are inclined to do, consider then properly deploying an Ursack plus odor proof bag to show how much faster and easier that is to do, even if it’s dark out, regardless of what sort of trees are available.
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Brian Lewis
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#176231 - 04/05/13 02:54 PM Walkie-Talkies for large groups [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
For very full trips (perhaps 11 or 12 total), it can be helpful to bring along a pair of walkie-talkies. Ask for a volunteer or appoint a rear guard, someone that you think is likely to be conscientious about this. Position yourself near enough to the head of the long line of hikers that you can control things like ensuring everyone is together at an intersection, taking breaks, making sure you don’t pass water sources without considering whether folks might need some, dealing with any sort of trail hazards, etc. When the group is large enough, it’s just not possible to know if someone farther back needs to stop for some reason. Walkie-talkies can give you a degree of “peace of mind” while preventing potentially bad group splits.
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Brian Lewis
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#176232 - 04/05/13 02:55 PM Share Gear to Save Weight [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
This one is so well known it perhaps doesn’t need to be listed here, but just in case …
either at the trailhead or ahead of time, suggest that folks might share certain gear items to save weight. A very common one is that one person brings a stove and the other a water filter or other treatment --- “you heat my water and I’ll treat yours”. In some cases it could make sense for certain group first aid items be shared among the group, and of course as the trip leader it’s possible you’ll have an item or two for group-wide use that you might rotate through who carries that (a more complete first aid kit with some extra discretionary items is the primary example).
Tents can be a particular benefit, for the group as a whole as well as for the individuals. If you think there might be very limited camping space for one or more nights along the way, it’s a good idea for you to try to arrange that folks share tents ahead of time (four 2-person tents can fit in a space that eight solo tents would not). If you leave this until the trailhead, there’s a good chance that folks won’t be sharing tents. Note also that you should suggest that earplugs be carried.
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Brian Lewis
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#176233 - 04/05/13 02:56 PM Dig Your Hole the Night Before [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Assuming your body is on a sufficiently regular “#2” schedule, it can be a good idea to dig your hole the night before. This is particularly true if you anticipate that in the morning it will be raining/snowing, particularly cold, or that mosquitos will be out in force. On buggy mornings in particular, having the hole already dug gives the bugs a lot less time to locate you and call in reinforcements.
This isn’t just about convenience & comfort; if you’re not in a rush, you can take your time to walk a decent distance away and dig a really good 6” deep hole. So this is also an LNT factor, and particularly so in a commonly/heavily used camping location. Heck, as trip leader with beginners, you could even go round the first evening and inspect the holes!
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Brian Lewis
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#176234 - 04/05/13 02:57 PM Communal Wash time/locati [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
This is sort of both a teaching point but also just generally useful. If you’re on a several-day trip and you sense that at some point folks might like to wash bodies and/or clothing, arrange to stop mid-day or to just camp at a location where this works well. Do this as a group, and exchange notes on how to do so in a LNT, eco-friendly way. Minimal or no soap, certainly no soap near flowing water, dealing with waste water properly, etc.
A good trick for putting up a clothesline is to double your cord, tie off one, end, twist the cord a great deal, then tie off the other end. You can then pry open the twisted cord at any point and shove a bit of clothing in to act as ad hoc “clothes pins”.
If you stand a blue ccf foam pad on end (perhaps two of them to be stiffer) somewhat loosely it can be possible to then drape something like a poncho over the opening, pour water in it, and use that as a wash basin.
Alternatively or in addition, you could mention that some folks just don’t wash at all on trail and seem to do fine with that. How (or if) you present this sort of point of viewpoint is of course up to you, just be aware that as in many aspects of backpacking, there isn’t just one single “right” way that everyone agrees is best.
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#176242 - 04/05/13 09:16 PM Re: Communal Wash time/locati [Re: BrianLe]
Infamous Offline
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Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 21
Loc: So Cal
I would also suggest some basic leadership skills, which are things you could get a sense of from just about any writings on leadership. Things like, having a good plan, being prepared, maintaining calm confidence/composure in all situations, effective communications, listening, etc. Those types of leadership competencies are completely independent of technical knowldge and skills, but make all the difference in the world.


Edited by Infamous (04/05/13 09:17 PM)
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#176243 - 04/05/13 09:34 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
dkramalc Offline
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Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: California
Things I observed hiking with old experienced Sierra Club leaders:

As mentioned before, have a front and rear "leader".

Trip members (and often leaders) wait for the person behind them at trail junctions and water crossings, to make sure nobody goes off the wrong way or needs help, i.e. someone is always waiting ahead of you to direct or assist you at those spots. These are good spots to regroup, if the group is getting very spread out.

If you stop to go to the bathroom off trail, you leave your pack alongside the trail, on the side of the direction you walked in (in the rare event someone gets lost off trail searching for a bathroom spot, leaders will know approximately where they started from and in what direction). If rear leader comes across trip member's pack next to trail, leader waits for their return before proceeding.
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#176284 - 04/07/13 05:35 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: dkramalc]
balzaccom Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
I would start with something much earlier: choose your group carefully, and define their expectations effectively. Most of the issues I've seen on group hikes come from the fact that the leader didn't do a good job on one or the other of these.

If you are clear in your communication at the beginning, you'll find a lot fewer problems during the hike!
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#176285 - 04/07/13 05:37 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: balzaccom]
balzaccom Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
One other technique I've used is to give the group choices. Don't make everyone in the group hike the same hike. WIth two leaders, one can take the high (and more strenuous) road, the other leader and group can take the easier route.
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#176294 - 04/08/13 10:12 AM Re: Communal Wash time/locati [Re: BrianLe]
finallyME Offline
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Brian, you said so much, it is hard to add.
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#176297 - 04/08/13 11:24 AM Re: Communal Wash time/locati [Re: finallyME]
lori Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
It sounds like you are teaching. Leading a group is not necessarily teaching.

There is an excellent chapter in Mountaineering : freedom of the hills that talks about leading, not teaching, on mountaineering or backpacking outings.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#176298 - 04/08/13 11:45 AM Re: Pervasive Map Use [Re: BrianLe]
billstephenson Offline
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
OM and I have mentioned on occasion how important it is to stop and turn around and take a good look behind you so you can remember what the view looks like on your way back. I think it's also important to note smaller features you'll see on the trail back too.

I try to commit to memory things like unique rock formations, boulders, trees that stand out in some unique way, like big, or fallen, or broken trees, and even bits of trash along a trail. I can pick up bits of trash on the way out, but I generally do not on the way in if I'm coming out on the same path.

So, when leading a hike with newbies I make it a point to stop the group and tell them to remember the view for the hike back. It's obviously best to do this where there is something memorable in view. I also just casually point out things along the way: "Hey, check out that huge Cedar growing in the crack of that cliff face over there". On the way back I casually mention it again, "There's that big Cedar tree, I'm always amazed that they can hang on the side of a cliff like that."

I find these little routines and comments stick with group members and greatly ease their worries that I don't know where I'm at and we're all lost and in danger. and it demonstrates, without instruction, how and why I know where we are.

I also think it's fun, and good exercise, to stop at trail intersections and ask the group which way we should go. If they've been keeping track of our progress and paying attention to their maps they should be able to figure it out, but if they can't it's the perfect opportunity to show them how. I'll do this when it's time to head back too. After everyone is ready to head out I'll ask "Okay, which way do we go?

This is fun for me because I generally find that at least some people in a group setting are very much expecting they don't have to think about that, but as a group leader I know they do. There's generally at least someone along who's been paying attention and knows right off the bat, but there's also generally one or a few, or even most or all, that haven't a clue and that provides the perfect opportunity to ask "What would you do if a rhinoceros ate me last night?"

After asking, I wait for an answer. I basically force them to make a decision on which way to go. If they choose wrong I tell them, "You're officially lost". Then I take off my pack and pull out the map and compass and show them how to figure it out.

The main point of all of these exercises is to impress upon the group how being aware of your location is a conscious effort that should become habitual, kind of like looking for street names and stop signs while driving.
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#176301 - 04/08/13 12:54 PM Re: Pervasive Map Use [Re: billstephenson]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
So what good does looking back do if it's a loop hike, and you're not coming back that way?

Actually, it's still useful. You'll always have a picture of what the trail (or at least the last segment of it you remember) looks like - which might come in handy when you realize it's been half an hour since you last saw a blaze, or that landmark that should be on your right is unaccountably on your left. At that point, when it's obvious you've strayed from the trail, you'll need to backtrack, and knowing what the way back looks like can be the difference between having strayed from the trail and having gotten lost. I still follow this practice even on the well-marked, well-worn trails of Ohio and Kentucky.

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#176302 - 04/08/13 01:20 PM Re: Communal Wash time/locati [Re: lori]
skcreidc Offline
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Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I think I agree with Lori here. Although you need these skill to lead, it sounds more like you are teaching "How to backpack in a group", not so much leadership skills. And I also think Lori's idea of pulling out some pages on leadership from mountaineering books is an excellent idea. The whole concept of risk evaluation/assessment needs to be addressed as well. Various risks could include weather, animals, terrain, altitude, and possibly people. To lead when everything is going smoothly is (usually) easy, it's when stuff starts to go down the tubes that it can get hard. Being able to assess potential risks as the trip continues and things are developing is a critical skill.

A couple of other notes;

Most of your points are things that are easy to pick up and develop habits for, such as sharing gear and the rest step. I assume that the classes will be practicing these skills in field as opposed to just on the chalk board. These skills will come naturally with a little thought and practice, although putting them all together so that they will become a habit for each person may be a little harder. These are all good group backpacking skills, not necessarily just leadership skills. Map reading is generally NOT one of these easy to pick up skills.

Pervasive map use. When I go into a new area, this method is exactly what I use to keep track of where I am and get a feel for the scale of the landscape. I find that most people don't refer to their maps often because they can't really read the things, and they assume the trail will get them where they want to go anyway. I'm sure I will come across as annoying, but I HAVE MET RELATIVELY FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSISTENTLY PROFCIENT AT TOPOGRAPHIC MAP READING. Even among geologists who are supposed to be good at this, there are quite a few who never really get it. I just think it takes more practice than the other items you have mentioned, and as such is more like wilderness first aid. In other words, it needs to be practiced rigorously. It seems to me that a leader should be able to read the map under stressful conditions, because that is when it will be the most critical. Too many classes just slide people through on this. So I would suggest some minimum performance standard be set.

The rest of your list will be driven by group dynamics if you ask me, and having the flexibility to handle that is a whole different skill set as well. Balzaccom kind of hinted at this, but Group dynamics and delegating tasks should be added to your list.

Anyway, that's my .02 for what it's worth.

Chris



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#176305 - 04/08/13 02:40 PM Re: Communal Wash time/locati [Re: lori]
TreeLady Offline
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Registered: 04/08/13
Posts: 3
We'll have a lot of beginner backpackers on our trips so hoping to impart some teaching skills to our leaders as well as leadership skills per se. Of course the teaching level needs to be appropriate to the group so that it's not wasting the time of people who already know what you're conveying. But I view some of my best group backpack trips as times when I've been 'taught' in some manner of speaking by the leader or other travelers.

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#176306 - 04/08/13 02:46 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
TreeLady Offline
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Registered: 04/08/13
Posts: 3
I find that it's very helpful as a group leader to stop at every easily-accessed water source to ask who in the group might need to gather and treat some water. This is especially important when water sources could be an hour or more apart. On my trips I've been encouraging my groups to carry just what they need to get from water source to water source (of course, only where feasible, and building in some conservatism)so that they're not lugging 3L of water with them when they don't need to. But people won't always check or speak up, until they're all out of water and you've passed the last water for 5 miles, 10 minutes back. Best of all is to try to coordinate so that multiple people are filling up at the same times. These become natural rest breaks.


Edited by TreeLady (04/08/13 02:47 PM)

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#176307 - 04/08/13 02:56 PM Re: Bear Bagging [Re: BrianLe]
TreeLady Offline
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Registered: 04/08/13
Posts: 3
On this general subject, it's also very important for the leader to teach and role model good camp hygiene especially when there are predators known to be in the area (but even when not). The leader can designate a food prep, eating and food hanging area away from the tents. They should be clear about expectations for cleaning up trash, washing dishes, not throwing grey water in the lake, storing food properly, etc. In a group, the group is only as safe as the camp hygiene and food storage behaviors of the other participants allow, so though some people may resent rules, the leader is ultimately responsible for their group's behavior and the outcomes.

This is something the leader should be clear about in their pre-trip communications. If someone doesn't want to adhere to these practices they can drop out of the group. But at least there are then no surprises. I treat bonfires the same way - we aren't going to have 'em.


Edited by TreeLady (04/08/13 02:56 PM)

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#176315 - 04/08/13 08:59 PM Re: Communal Wash time/locati [Re: lori]
balzaccom Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
My brother is an expert in education. One of the things he likes to say is that a teacher's job isn't to cover the material, but to uncover the material!
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#176318 - 04/08/13 09:48 PM Re: Communal Wash time/locati [Re: balzaccom]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I always figured that, as the instructor, it wasn't my job to show them how much I knew, but to make sure they knew more when we were done than they did when we started.

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#176324 - 04/09/13 07:48 AM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
Gershon Offline
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Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Brian,
I would include that the two most common causes of injuries and fatalities are water and falling injuries do to "easy" climbing.

I have a very poor sense of direction and can easily get lost in WalMart. One thing I do at a trail intersection is make a very small cairn (3 golfball size rocks) 10 feet before the intersection on what would be the left side of the trail when I come back. I put it where it can't be seen from the trail and remove it when I come back.

Except for tourist trails I carry enough gear to spend a couple nights out, even on a day hike. It's not unusual to hike a whole day here without seeing anyone.

I've never seen a person with a map decide where they should be based on time before figuring out where they are. I've also never seen a person take a bearing at a trailhead to see if they are starting on the right trail.

In NOLS wilderness navigation (I think) they recommend identifying your position in 5 (I think) different ways.

The leader should call the controllng agency before going on the trip to see if there are any problems with the trail. Last year, we had a lot of blowdowns and many trails were impassible. The year before I found a trail was closed due to a plane crash at the trailhead that started a forest fire.

Loop trails aren't a good idea because you can't let a person with a blister wait for you to come back the same direction. Never leave an inexperienced hiker alone to wait for the group to come back.

Don't go on a trail that starts out downhill. It takes at least twice as long to come back up the hill. There aren't many of these, so they are easy to avoid.

Ask permission before putting anyone's picture on YouTube or a Meetup site.

That's all I could think of. I hope you get one idea from it.
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#176326 - 04/09/13 10:16 AM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: Gershon]
lori Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I organize trips with friends. The process is different than teaching - you make decisions mostly before the trip - that determines the outcome as much as what you do on the trip. Who you take with you makes a huge difference.

Social trips need leadership, too. Not the kind you have with a class of people tho. People who have less experience sometimes can't figure out the subtle skill of backpacking to the point that they are able to self monitor and often want to not slow the group up. Even when I do the pre-trip briefing on how to NOT be polite (not complaining vs. identifying and alerting the group to situations or conditions that may have an impact on the trip or the person's safety) I still have people who can't bring themselves to speak up when they have blisters or feel slightly ill.

And with a hiking group formed by some outside "glue" (the sierra club, or any group run through meet up, or some other group website - facebook groups count) it's hard to get the screening or the leadership on the trip that a backpack trip needs to be successful.
_________________________
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#176329 - 04/09/13 11:01 AM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: lori]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I like what you say about the "little things" that turn into big things ("Well, my big toe feels like it's hot in the middle, but I don't want to sound like a wimp - it'll probably be OK...") and getting folks not to be polite.

Sometimes, too, it's being obsessive when you're actually walking. I have a friend whose on-trail leadership with beginners I really admire. Before the trip, he tells everyone "there are two rules to backpacking. Rule 1 is Be Safe; Rule 2 is Have Fun. If you ever feel, for any reason, that you're not safe, tell me. If you ever feel, for any reason, you're not having fun, tell me. We'll do what's necessary to fix that." As a result, we've had people say, "Andy, I don't feel safe on that narrow trail at the edge of the cliff," and so we do something (such as a "chair rail" of hiking staffs) to fix it. "Andy, I'm not having fun anymore; I'm really get tired and winded." We slow our pace, or take a break and get out a map to show them how far we are from the next arch or other scenic spot. (He goes out of his way to ensure that beginner trips are in high-scenery areas, i.e., "fun.")

But he's also obsessive about the little things that we all do naturally in the rhythm of a trip, but beginners don't know yet. Anytime we stop for a rest or a mini-class (water purification, how to dig a cathole, etc. are covered on the trail), he says, "It's a bit cool, you might want to put on a layer before you get chilled" or "this would be a good time to get a drink and maybe eat some trail mix," and he'll always ask, "Is anyone getting a hot spot on your foot? Is everyone's pack riding comfortably? Does everyone have at least half a liter of water?" Then, when it's time to start back up, it's "When we get walking, we'll warm up quickly - this would be a good time to take off that layer you put on when we stopped." Often, by mid-afternoon, these things have become automatic for everyone in the group. (I've hiked with "graduates" on subsequent trips, and the lessons stuck.)

There are three or four of us who have worked with him a good bit in these classes; usually, at least two of us go along. We consciously place ourselves in the middle and rear of the group (usually 8 or 10 folks), and switch places at the breaks. It allows us to let different people hike at different paces without feeling like they're holding folks up. Those in the front see a couple of leaders strung out behind them and get the concept of HYOH; those in back see leaders strung out among the group and understand that speed does not equal skill. They're also reassured because there's an experienced person near them, always, and they can always see the middle person (who kind of hangs in limbo: he is always within sight of both the lead group and the rear group, even though those groups may not be in sight of one another) and don't feel abandoned. And, with the switching places, it all feels like we're just getting to know one another rather than having them feel like they're being "herded."

I don't think I said all that very well; you really need to see Andy lead a trip to appreciate the attention to detail work.

That attention to detail really pays off; it's a gentle way of getting them into the rhythm of a hike.

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#176386 - 04/11/13 03:10 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
“As mentioned before, have a front and rear "leader". ”

-another aye

- Also, in a group, you become a popular leader when you have a pocket full of 30 ibuprofens. I prefer individually packaged to keep the environmental influences out.

- Keep your slowest guy up front. You’ll travel farther and safer as a group that way. Yes, there will be some kids itching to double the speed but there are several tactics to handle those types…

-Barry
-The Rockies and Illinois bogs were made for Tevas

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#176771 - 04/27/13 12:31 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
I thought of another one today:

Get everyone started on trail at the same time:

Sometimes in a group there will be one or two people who are particularly slow to get started in the morning, so that the rest of the group is left waiting around (sometimes in cold and/or rainy conditions with their tents and sleeping bags already packed up). A suggestion here is that rather than agree as a group on a particular time to wake up in the morning, agree instead on a particular time to get started walking on the trail. That way, everyone can decide for themselves when to wake up. In this context, if a person is significantly late, just ask them to set their alarm clock a bit earlier.

What’s a good alarm clock? Many people carry a watch with an alarm function, and might even know how to use that function (!). But many (most?) watch alarms aren’t very loud, so a good idea to keep it near to your head at night. Better, perhaps is an alarm clock smartphone app. These are available for free, and can start out at low volume, increasing the volume gradually, so as not to jar the person or annoy others. If neither of those options work for your laggard, poll the group to find out who wakes the earliest and ask them to wake this person the next morning.

Note that as leader you could also ask people to bring some sort of “alarm clock” function with them, and this is a particularly good thing to do if you anticipate very hot weather --- a really good idea in such conditions is to wake up a little before dawn, eat and pack up using headlamps, and start hiking as soon as it’s light enough to see the trail a few feet ahead of you. That way, you maximize use of the cool morning weather.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#176772 - 04/27/13 02:14 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: Gershon]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
I am not fond of "rules" as such. Leadership is about judgement. Nothing wrong with loop trails or starting a trip going downhill. In fact the latter actually may be better because your pack is heavier at the start and you become stronger as you hike more. As for loops, the leader needs to inform particpants of the plan and set the boundaries - such as we will NOT leave someone on the trail to pick up later. I would not even do this on an in-and-out trail. Once you have formed a group, you have an unwritten "contract" on the goals and individual behaviors.

The hardest part about leading a group is to get the group to see themselves as a cohesive unit, not a bunch of individuals. Those individuals who refuse to be a participating part of the group should hike solo. I make it very clear when I lead a group that their "individualism" has boundaries. They either buy into that or do not participate. It is easier to get people into this mind set on a long trip - say 2+ weeks. They really "get it" when everyone in the group ends up with an occasional "bad trail day" and need help or need the group to slow down. As a leader you can channel each persons skills into something that helps the group. For example, let a few of the hot shots go ahead at the end of the day and find a campsite that is suitable for the group. When they find the site, they then clear off all tent sites, gather water, gather wood if fires are allowed, and have everything ready for the slower ones when they arrive and are tired. On the trail, the hot shots can also carry more group gear or even carry some of the slow person's gear. Everyone then gets to go farther and faster. Hot shot stream crossers can go first and then come back and carry packs of those who are less talented at crossings. And the slow people can "pay back" these kind jestures by being up-beat, helpful, maybe cook meals, do a few more clean-up chores in camp.

Off-trail, the first person who navigates probably walks twice as many steps because they focus on the general line of direction, often having to backtrack, zig-zag around obstacles - sort of the "drunken sailor" route. The second person stays back a ways and is assigned as the "smoother outer" - his job is to refine the route, by finding the more efficient micro-path. The rest of the group then have less work to do. Route finding and navigating off-trail is mentally tiring. The stronger and more qualified need to trade off on this job.

As for those who cannot get their stuff together in time, how about a little help from others instead of waiting at your packs tapping your foot?

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#176797 - 04/30/13 09:58 AM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: wandering_daisy]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy


As for those who cannot get their stuff together in time, how about a little help from others instead of waiting at your packs tapping your foot?


I backpacked with a gal who resisted the help offered almost to the point of hitting someone. She wanted to obsessively fold her tent *just so*...

Pacing is another subtle skill of backpacking. The less backpacking someone has done, the longer it takes them to get on the trail in the morning. I usually plan to stand around if I'm with beginners. Last weekend was no exception. I followed my routine of putting everything away as I got up and collapsing my tent before breakfast, then packing as I finished up my coffee. Was standing there watching other people eat breakfast chatting for a while. One of them asked about how quickly I packed - I said "we wanted an early start, I wasn't going to be an impediment. Plus, that's just the routine for me." That kicked the slowest poke to take down his tent.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#176801 - 04/30/13 02:50 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Pro tip: Above all else, do not anger the Sherpas. Just don't.

Sherpas attack three Everest climbers

Good times.
_________________________
--Rick

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#179470 - 08/27/13 05:23 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
Bill Tarkuli Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 2
This is a great thread. I'm with what everyone has said so far.

I just started looking for a forum for leaders to rant, compare notes and seek advice. There aren't many leaders - it's not easy.

I've been hiking for a number of decades and leading hikes for a couple decades. Mostly I've led hikes for experienced or at least those who sort of know the drill. Makes leading quite a bit easier.

This year I accidentally stumbled into leading day hike groups of relative newbies - lots of enthusiasm and strength, but not much else. My objectives are a) for everyone to be safe, b) everyone to be accountable to themselves, c) return with a smile on your face and d) learn a thing or two.

Experienced hikers don't really give themselves credit for how much they know. I didn't, until I started talking with newbies and realized just how ignorant many are. They don't read instructions, books or disclaimers (a growing problem). So I've decided that a) good screening and b) experiential learning are key. Being sensitive to the skills and knowledge of the group is key. Discussions happen all day long. I like to "mingle", chatting with each hiker when the time permits - sometimes on the trail, sometimes at rest.

I tell them a few things about nature, about equipment, the mountains, animals, preparation, whatever I think would be appropriate. Since I like to explore, I do a little homework ahead of time and have a story or two to tell. I told a story about how this was the site of the last large fire, spurring the creation of a national forest; I point out old lumbering railroad ties, and tie it back to the dates and how things were clear-cut.

There's a lot more to do and see than just get to the top and get exercise. Many have commented on how I made the trip way more interesting and enjoyable. It opens their eyes to many possibilities.

I'm not a gear nazi. Rather than advise a woman who was getting weary and stumbling that she might consider poles, I just gave her mine.

The biggest equipment discussion we often have is about boots. Second is clothing. I stay away from name-brand discussions - it becomes religious. If we don't get these basics right, we don't come back with a smile on our face.

Knowing when to shut up is another important leadership skill. I want everyone to have a great day; no need to preach at them.


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#179479 - 08/28/13 11:15 AM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: Bill Tarkuli]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Great thoughts, Bill. One way that I've made my life easier as a trip leader is to not lead beginner trips, but rather multi-day trips with some descriptive text that tends to scare off those that aren't prepared and in decent shape --- to include a lot of pre-signup expectation setting stuff. Doesn't eliminate all problems, but it greatly reduces them.

My hat's off to those that choose to lead beginner trips --- we really need those type of trip leaders, and I guiltily feel that I ought to step up and do one or two next year just to do my share. Maybe!
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#179480 - 08/28/13 12:17 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
I organize one or two beginner trips for my local meetup group each year. I think it is important if it will be a beginner trip to actual make it one. What we experienced floks think of as easy and beginner is often well above real beginner level. I make sure the trips are easy, almost too easy. Many carry too much stuff as expected. But a 3 mile hike in will allow them to realize the benefit of a lighter pack without making the trip dangerous because they brought a giant flashlight with a spare lantern battery. The season is chosen so that a damp hoody will suffice as insulation but they will see others faring better with non-cotton. Etc...

Any issues that arise will not be remotely life threatening as the trip is just a step above car camping in difficulty. They are just wading into the water on these trips. They need to have fun and will eventually make it into the deep end if we don't toss 'em there and then rescue them.
_________________________
http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com

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#179482 - 08/28/13 04:09 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: DTape]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Great point. The idea is to get them hooked on the pastime, not to make them experts overnight (pardon the pun.)

Another thing that I've found with beginner trips is that you might want to use co-leaders (formally or informally), or at least include a good ratio of experienced folks with the right attitudes. This not only lets you split groups into faster and slower, younger and older, etc., sub-groups, it also gives all the newcomers lots of chances to talk to someone and to get a close look at the gear they use. Twelve people trying to talk to a single leader, or elbowing one another to get a better look as he packs or unpacks, can get intense.

I'm friends with a guy who leads such beginners trips locally. While there is never any doubt he is in charge, we've worked it out that I'll function as an unofficial assistant. At breaks, while he's teaching a brief lesson about LNT, I'll be watching people for signs of chilling, or blisters, etc., and deal with those problems. If the group spreads out on the trail, I'll drop back so we've always got everyone in view - that kind of thing. He also tries to get the ratio of beginners to experienced folks to about 2 to 1, to increase opportunities for interaction. And, he makes sure the experienced folk are the right personalities: outgoing, generally friendly and approachable, and the kind who do like Bill mentioned: "Here, why don't you use my poles for a while, and see how you like them." or "Well, there are several ways to do this; I prefer this one, but if you don't, that's OK." Those kinds of attitudes.

Getting the mix right, underestimating abilities, and holding mileage down seem to be keys here.

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#179484 - 08/28/13 06:43 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
You guys seem to have sophisticated beginners smile

The guys who I might currently camp with, are neighbors who camp out in the lava flow in Newberry Monument behind us. One has a sleeping bag, the other has a bivy sack and a pack and a big knife.
Jim thanks
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#179805 - 09/21/13 11:09 AM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: BrianLe]
spwhite24 Offline
member

Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 20
Loc: Bucyrus, OH. USA
This is a great thread. A lot of great information. My groups usually include friends and family including children and teenagers. Reading the posts here has really given me some things to think about.
Thanks

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#179807 - 09/21/13 01:58 PM Re: Trip Leader Best Practices [Re: spwhite24]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
I loved Daisy's comments about getting the group to work together--that's a key for us as well. The faster you are on the trail, the more we'll ask you to carry the next day. It makes for a better trip. And yes, we practice this when it is just the two of us!

One think I don't see mentioned is that it helps to have one leader who is female. For all the good notes here about asking how people are feeling making sure that everyone is having fun, there are still some people (both male and female) who will open up to a woman in ways that they won't talk to a man--even a nice man like me!

Those quiet conversations off to the side of the trail can really make a difference about how things work!

_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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