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#175723 - 03/12/13 07:20 PM Gear list and weight help
coolerwill Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 6
Gear list below is for use in yellowstone, tetons, western north carolina in the winter months.
My pack, shelter, stove and sleeping bag can't be changed.
All the gear, no food fuel or water, including clothes I'm wearing is 21.75lbs.
Without including clothes I'm wearing, around 19lbs of gear.
Any glaring areas where I can reduce weight?
Or any omissions I should include?
I'm finding it hard to reduce weight with the above constraints.
Thank you for the help.
clothes worn
Socks x 2 3oz
running shorts 3oz
convertible pants 9
poly shirt 4
buff 1.4
watch 1
sunglasses 2
shoes 20
Shorty gaiters 2

glove liners 2
gloves wool 3
wool hat 2

smart wool lt long johns 5.3
smart wool med weight top long 9.4
marmot precip 13.1
colombia rain pants 8
sears down jacket 12.3
wool sweater 16

Jansport Big Bear 82 63
trowel 1.7
camp towel 0.1
sponge 0.1
pot with lid 7
soap 2
50' paracord 4

bear spray 15
knife 2
rei radiant 20 degree 40
exped inflatable 20
generic stove 3.9
canister fuel
spoon 0.6
head lamp 2.7
head lamp 3.8
lighter x 2 0.8
whistle,compass, mirror tool 1.2
Double Rainbow 41
2 mil footprint 5
wet wipes 2
misc zip loc bags 1
2 x dry bags 1
water bottle 1 liter 1.2
water bottle 1 liter 1.2
aqua mira 3
toothbrush 1
toothpaste 1
sunscreen 1
first aid 0.5
deet 1
plate/bowl 2.4
bandana 1.05


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#175726 - 03/12/13 09:44 PM Re: Gear list and weight help [Re: coolerwill]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
If you want to compare to others, the best measure to use is the "base weight" which is all the gear in the pack (including the pack) except food, fuel, water. It does not include what you wear (on a normal sunny day) or carry.

What I'm seeing are two main things: First, too much duplication. Second, you appear to be taking a number of items in their original containers instead of decanting just enough for the trip into tiny dropper bottles. Both of these can save a lot of weight.

OK, going item by item from top to bottom:

Why both running shorts and convertible pants? Or are the running shorts instead of underwear?

Gloves--you'll be as warm or not warmer with glove liners plus a pair of lightweight rain mitts if you use trekking poles; otherwise just the liners, if your rain jacket sleeves will cover your hands. If you need an extra insulation layer, fleece gloves don't get soggy when wet as do wool, and they're lighter.

Why the heavy wool sweater plus the down jacket? Can you think of any possible situation with the temperature above zero degrees F in which you would be too cold wearing base layer, shirt, down jacket and rain jacket all at the same time, plus hat and gloves? Will all these layers plus the sweater even fit under your rain jacket? You will save a pound by omitting the sweater, which you shouldn't need with all the other items. If you absolutely must have an extra layer, consider a vest of light-weight polyester fleece: warm, stays dry, wicks moisture, can often be found in a thrift store, far lighter than the sweater. I have one, but it has to get below 15* F before I need it.

Pot--look for a lighter one. Stanco non-stick grease pot from amazon.com, $10, 1 quart, only 4 oz. with strainer removed and eve lighter if the lid is replaced by a piece of foil. I started out with one of these8 years ago, except it wasn't non-stick, came from Kmart and cost only $5. I switched to titanium a couple of years later, and still wonder if that expense (to save a whole ounce) was worth while!

Trowel--eliminate; use tent stake, trekking pole point, stick or shoe heel.

Soap--if liquid, take just enough for the trip into a tiny dropper bottle. If solid, shave a tiny piece off the bar, again just enough for the trip. Weight saved at least 1.5 oz. The same is true for any other liquid stuff: take just enough for the trip in tiny plastic dropper bottles. You will save 4-5 ounces for the total of these items.

Head lamp--why two? If you want a spare light, one of those tiny photon lamps will do just fine (there's an ad for one right next to your post). I mostly use mine when I can't find my headlamp in the dark (like the time my dog was sleeping on it). In fact, some folks use only a photon light and no headlamp! I don't take extra batteries; I just put in fresh ones for each trip. Ditch the heavier headlamp to save a quarter pound.

Bear Spray--the small size is sufficient and cuts 5 oz. You need this only where there are grizzly bears--definitelty not in NC!

I haven't used a tent footprint for many years and have never missed it. Another 5 oz. saved. These ounces do add up!

AquaMira, Deet, sunscreen--see soap above--take just enough for the trip in tiny dropper bottles.

Plate/bowl--leave it home and eat out of your cooking pot. Or rehydrate your food in a freezer bag in a cozy so you just boil water in your pot, eat out of the freezer bag and only have to wash the spoon (can you tell I hate washing dishes? laugh )

Toothbrush: Look for a travel toothbrush (brush fits inside handle) at the drug store, save 0.5 oz.

Toothpaste: either switch to baking soda, saving 0.5 oz. for 10-day trip, or dehydrate small dots of toothpaste--again, saving half the weight. I haven't tried it, being a baking soda fan, but supposedly you just chew the dried toothpaste dot for a minute or two before brushing your teeth. Your dentist will tell you that it's the brushing that's important, not the dentifrice, so you could save an ounce by omitting it altogether.

The one "Big 4" item I'd seriously look at is your pack, not necessarily replacing it but trimming it down. Are there extra gewgaws or extra long strap ends (that you could trim (not the compression straps unless they're too long for a maximum load)? If you shorten the strap ends, make sure the straps still fit over all your winter layers, and hem the ends of the straps so the buckles won't slip off (something I learned the hard way blush). Can you remove the lid? Judicious surgery might remove half a pound or (if you remove the lid) as much as a pound.

The one thing I didn't see was a few mending supplies--maybe a small amount of duct tape, a patch of nylon cloth tape, a few safety pins, a patch for your inflatable pad, a needle (which should be in your first aid kit for splinter removal anyway) and a little strong thread. Dental floss (assuming the hole of the needle is big enough) makes a great thread substitute and your dentist will be thrilled that you're flossing as well as brushing! This might add back a couple of ounces.

That's a net weight loss of at least 2.5 pounds, not counting any possible trimmings from the pack. Maybe three pounds altogether. For the future, consider for solo use a tent such as the Tarptent Contrail or Six Moon Designs Skyscape Trekker or Lunar Solo (each 1.5 lbs and about $200-225 if bought new) and save your pennies (lots!) for a high quality down sleeping bag. Also consider a 48 inch long sleeping pad which will save another quarter pound. It will pad and insulate you where you need it (head through hips) and you can put your pack under your legs.

For more ideas, take a look at the gear lists and other articles on the home page of this site, left-hand column. I modeled my gear on the 27-pound, 7 day gear list, which has been quite adequate for high-altitude trips in the northern Rockies--and I get cold easily!
















Edited by OregonMouse (03/12/13 09:50 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#175772 - 03/14/13 05:24 PM Re: Gear list and weight help [Re: OregonMouse]
coolerwill Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 6
First off, tremendous suggestions and I can't thank you enough.
A few points...
Okay, where can I get those little bottles other than the internet?
Running shorts are underwear.
You convinced me to drop the wool sweater for a light fleece. The down jacket is equivalent to a nanopuff - I wasn't sure I would be warm enough when sitting around.
Spare light, good advice on the photon.
Bear spray I was thinking I should err on having enough, and I know I only need it in Wyoming.
I included a footprint because I was leery of moisture coming through the tent floor when sleeping on snow or frozen ground.
And all of the other suggestions are definitely things I can do. Thanks again for your help.


Edited by coolerwill (03/14/13 05:27 PM)

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#175774 - 03/14/13 05:54 PM Re: Gear list and weight help [Re: coolerwill]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
I agree with all of OM's advice.

If it was me, I wouldn't take the down jacket either except for the winter NC trips. If my baselayer (sleep clothes), hiking layer and rain layer aren't keeping me warm enough, I'll use my sleeping bag. Haven't had to do that yet at least.

You didn't say pad couldn't be changed so get a NeoAir model for another several ounces.

How about trying out a homemade tarp? Save over a pound.

BTW, I'm impressed your FAK is just half ounce.

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#175782 - 03/15/13 01:38 PM Re: Gear list and weight help [Re: coolerwill]
Dave H Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 57
Loc: Charlotte, NC
If you have a "The Container Store" nearby they sell small nalgene bottles ranging from about 1/2 ounce and up seperately. That way you can just purchase the exact size you need. http://www.containerstore.com/shop/travel/bottlesMedication
I have also seen some of these a my local outfitters but nowhere near the selection.

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#175783 - 03/15/13 01:50 PM Re: Gear list and weight help [Re: coolerwill]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Coolerwill: Best source for the dropper bottles (and also mini-jars and mini-vials) is Lawson Equipment . No postage for orders of $10 or more and only $3 postage for orders under $10. You could also try US Plastics (probably the source for the smaller outfits like Lawson), but for small orders their shipping cost is as much as the item itself (I got tubing from them to make a fly rod case last year). Quite a few other outfits (Gossamer Gear, Mountain Laurel Designs) carry them, but their shipping cost for small orders is much higher. These are all reputable firms that I've dealt with for quite a few years.

You could also try your local pharmacy.

For use at high altitude in the Rockies, do take that down jacket! Even in midsummer, you can get snow and temps down to 15* or even 10* F, probably similar to what you get in NC in winter! In Yellowstone (lower altitude) you may be fine with just a lightweight fleece insulation layer.

If you are interested in the NeoAir, try it out on the floor at home for several nights while you can still return it. Everyone either loves or hates this pad! I'm one of the haters because I never could get comfortable on it and, thanks to the horizontal tubes, I rolled off the thing every time I turned over (which I do a lot of). The NeoAir seemed to me like a vicious being with a life of its own, determined to buck me off if I even took a deep breath! Your Mileage May Vary, of course.

It may be too late in the year, but if you get a cold spell, get up there to the mountains for a night and test out your gear. With all the layers on including rain gear and base layer, you should be fine with just the down jacket for insulation at least down to 15*F.


Edited by OregonMouse (03/15/13 01:54 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#175784 - 03/15/13 02:40 PM Re: Gear list and weight help [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I'd add to OM's comments on the NeoAir: if you're interested in this pad, my favorite is the All-Season. It's not as high an R-value or as light as the X-Therm, but it's more comfortable. I've found it plenty warm for Ohio winters (though under 20 degrees, you may want to take along a closed-cell foam pad to put over it.)

I found the NeoAir comfortable (I had an original, All-Season, and X-therm), but I ended up liking the Big Agnes Q-Core even better. It has an R-rating of 5 (same as the NeoAir All-Season), but weighs half a pound more. I think the extra comfort is worth a half pound, but that's strictly personal preference. If you want to stay in the same one-pound range as the NeoAirs, look at the Q-Core SL (though it's an inch or so narrower, and an R-value of 4.5.)

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#175786 - 03/15/13 03:04 PM Re: Gear list and weight help [Re: OregonMouse]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
For use at high altitude in the Rockies, do take that down jacket! Even in midsummer, you can get snow and temps down to 15* or even 10* F, probably similar to what you get in NC in winter! In Yellowstone (lower altitude) you may be fine with just a lightweight fleece insulation layer.

I've been fortunate so far to not have temps that low where I needed to use my bag. I guess I should say my sleep clothes are Capilene 3 bottoms and Cap 4 top and my bag is 20F (likely 25 in reality). This is for Wind River Range and Maroon Bells (9000' and higher). I wouldn't say I'm an overly warm person. Though I will add that my first trip I did take down jacket and puffy pants. I decided after that it wasn't needed (for me) for July & Aug. I'd def take it Oct-May though if I happen to go then and likely June or Sep as well.

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