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#169558 - 09/19/12 06:34 AM Help me create a brand new innovative product!
Sgt_Hald Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 2
I am about to go "all-in", in creating a new and innovative backpacking/outdoor product - and I need YOUR help!

This thread is only for those of you who use a hydration-system (like Camel Bak, Blackhawk! or similar)

The idea is basically to create a new/alternativ screw cap for the hydration-system, which will have a built-in filter-system. You simple pull a retractable hose/tube out of the screw cap, put it in to a lake, stream or river, and rotate the small flip-out handle. This will refill your hydrtion-system in a few minutes.

Combining a hydration-system and a filter-system, is the whole idea here!

Please tell me what you think of this idea!

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#169559 - 09/19/12 06:55 AM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: Sgt_Hald]
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
Have you used other filtration systems currently available? As far as I know all use either some pumping mechanism or gravity pressure, or in the case of the Sawyer squeeze system the pressure of squeezing the vessel which forces the water through the filter.

What about a bladder with a built in UV sterilizer in the bladder and a light charcoal filter on the outlet tube. The UV light would kill the bad stuff and the filter would improve the "quality" of the water without greatly restricting flow.

Hey better hurry up and patent that idea before it's in the public domain..oops too late.

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#169563 - 09/19/12 09:53 AM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: Sgt_Hald]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Good luck with that. It sounds extremely expensive to develop - for example, how are you going to know that filtration system you are developing actually works as advertised? Do you know how to test it?
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#169566 - 09/19/12 10:51 AM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: Sgt_Hald]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1262
Loc: Florida panhandle
It seems like various versions of what you are describing have been done by more than one company. I may be misunderstanding though. In any case, you might have a slightly better approach or some advantage.

Lori, any water testing lab should be able to test before filtering and after filtering water samples to evaluate the effectiveness of the system. Such tests should run less than $100, may be even less than $50 each. Discuss with the lab your objectives and they can help you select the right tests. Look in the yellow pages under "water testing" or "environmental labs".

http://www.geigerrig.com/product-benefits/clean-h2o.html

http://www.rei.com/product/695526/camelbak-filter-adapter


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#169570 - 09/19/12 12:08 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: Sgt_Hald]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3188
Loc: Portland, OR
My current system is:

- a gravity filter that weighs ~8 oz
- two-liter Platypus bottle that weighs ~1 oz
- a Platypus tube-feed with bite valve, ~2.5 oz

Your system would have to beat this one in terms of cost, weight or convenience. Preferably all three. Good luck.

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#169572 - 09/19/12 01:20 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: aimless]
Cranman Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NC
There is a company that makes a straw with a filter in it, can't remember the name, Aquatech maybe? I am sure somebody has considered or patented this idea to add it to the drinking tube of a hydration pack/bladder system already.

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#169574 - 09/19/12 01:37 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: Cranman]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
There is at least two of them; the Aquamira Frontier filter for $12 that gits your 20 gal, or the Life Straw which gets you 260 gal for $20. But this doesn't sound like what the OP is after.

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#169577 - 09/19/12 03:54 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: PerryMK]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By PerryMK
It seems like various versions of what you are describing have been done by more than one company. I may be misunderstanding though. In any case, you might have a slightly better approach or some advantage.

Lori, any water testing lab should be able to test before filtering and after filtering water samples to evaluate the effectiveness of the system. Such tests should run less than $100, may be even less than $50 each. Discuss with the lab your objectives and they can help you select the right tests. Look in the yellow pages under "water testing" or "environmental labs".

http://www.geigerrig.com/product-benefits/clean-h2o.html

http://www.rei.com/product/695526/camelbak-filter-adapter



And how much is it going to cost to re-develop when the first test fails, then the second, then the third, then the fourth, then they scrap that medium (whatever it is) for something else....

Do the labs have package deals?

How much research goes into the science - how to decide what medium to use? How to manufacture the first - tenth version without running out of money? raw materials costs?

What equipment do you need to make the demo models in the first place?

Or do you hire some existing water filter manufacturer to do it for you?

Hmmm.... Perhaps a wholesale order of some existing filter units starts to make sense, ala the ULA Amigo Pro, which used (when it was still being made) a Katadyn Hiker filter core.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#169578 - 09/19/12 03:56 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: skcreidc]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By skcreidc
There is at least two of them; the Aquamira Frontier filter for $12 that gits your 20 gal, or the Life Straw which gets you 260 gal for $20. But this doesn't sound like what the OP is after.


And neither one of those will filter sufficiently. You need to add chemicals after the Frontier - all it gets is the largest stuff aka cysts and protozoa.

The Life Straw you can look up reviews for - but there is likely a Big Reason it isn't available at REI or any of the usual vendors for ultralight hikers.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#169579 - 09/19/12 04:03 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: lori]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1262
Loc: Florida panhandle
Labs often have package deals, but these packages are for hundreds of samples, not usually tens of samples. I say this having spent 4 years working in environmental labs as a chemist. Some of that was testing municipal drinking water (not well water as might be more similar or appropriate here). Now I work in a forensic lab analyzing things that burned or blew up.

By way of example, I am in the process of making a backpack frame. The first one set me back close to $500. Much of that was buyng tools that can be re-used, but still. Developing something new costs money.

As for rest, well, they're good questions but that's really not my area so I can't offer good answers.

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#169581 - 09/19/12 05:05 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: Sgt_Hald]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
First off, don't let anyone discourage you. That's got to be rule #1 for anything you try to create.

One of my brothers heard "It won't work" and "Good luck with that" about a zillion times while he was working on a new type of baby bottle. It took several years of hard work to get it off the ground and into stores, but shortly after that Johnson & Johnson bought his company and rebranded the product. My brother was compensated quite well, and those that discouraged him were mostly silent about that.

The expensive part of your project are the dies to make the plastic parts. After speaking with almost every plastic injection company in the U.S., my brother ended up going to China to get his stuff made. All the U.S. companies told him "Can't be done", so work past that too.

I like your concept, especially a rotating pump as opposed to a push/pull pump.

I don't use a bladder system, but I'm all about innovation. Perhaps you could make the pump/filter as a self contained unit that attaches to different style bottles. If it was smaller, or lighter, or faster than a "Katadyn Hiker" you've got an advantage right out of the box.

So I'm going to encourage you to keep working on your plans and offer my best wishes for your success.

Please keep me posted on your progress!
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#169608 - 09/20/12 02:39 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: lori]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Lori, I haven't purchased either of these two "straw filter systems" yet, but the Life Straw is looking pretty strong. It seems to be gearing itself to handling poor water quality in the "third world" and has been improved to filter out giardia. Supposedly award winning.

As a former purchaser of lab services, you will definitely get a better price as you give them more business. Most of the base prices for the labs used to be very competative with each other so it probably still pays to shop around.

PerryMK, did you used to work for a lab in Pensacola? If so I might of installed a bunch of monitoring wells around your lab!

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#169614 - 09/20/12 04:40 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: skcreidc]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1262
Loc: Florida panhandle
Originally Posted By skcreidc
PerryMK, did you used to work for a lab in Pensacola? If so I might of installed a bunch of monitoring wells around your lab!

I was a field chemist for an environmental services company for a few years back in the mid-1990s and went to quite a few places around the country, but never made it to Pensacola. For the last 14+ years I have been parked outside Tallahassee.

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#169617 - 09/20/12 05:40 PM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: PerryMK]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
PerryMK, I know what you mean about the environmental consulting business and traveling. grin

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#170011 - 10/01/12 10:09 AM Re: Help me create a brand new innovative product! [Re: Sgt_Hald]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I would say that the current "hot" item with regards to filtering is the Sawyer Squeeze. It weighs 3 oz, filters to 0.1 microns, and costs around $50-60. And, with the right attachments, can be attached directly to a bladder to suck out water through the filter. In fact, after writing all this, I realized Sawyer already makes one....
Sawyer water filter
I am not saying you shouldn't try. I am just saying, if you do, then it needs to have a better filter, at a better price.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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