I know this isn't exactly backpacking related but the show does show outdoor survival techniques...

So what do you all think about this show? I love it...I do watch some of the others too...Man vs. Wild, Dual Survival, Man, Woman, Wild, etc.

Most of these shows are staged and for me marginally entertaining, but I think Suvivorman is the best of the group by far. At least Les keeps it more realistic, and seems to avoid the stunts for sheer shock value like eating various raw creatures. Not to mention the whole urine/feces situations that the others seem to always throw in there.

I guess from all these shows I have had my eyes opened to the amount of wild edibles are out there, if you know what to look for. Also the fire making scenes make me want to learn how to make fire without matches, I did succeed in making a fire this weekend with a magnifying glass (not as easy as it would seem!)

I guess it depends on where you are hiking. I don't think you'd find enough to sustain yourself in the Sierra Nevada - the miner's lettuce and a steady diet of trout would get old fast, and there's really not lots of any single edible anywhere... patches of wild onions are few and far between. Miner's lettuce only grows where it's damp, and it's really dry a lot of the time. And in the alpine there would have to be a way to catch pika... or other hikers...

I think these shows are dangerous to the ignorant. I've heard of at least one death after some young guy decided to try it out for himself. Learning to survive is best done by going to one of those bushcrafting schools (I've run across two or three).

I rarely watch "reality entertainment" because I find that it's neither one. But that is strictly my own opinion. (I also consider Grant's Memoirs light reading, and find most fiction boring. I'm definitely not swimming in the mainstream.)

But I'd have to agree with Lori - if you find such things interesting, go spend the time and effort to really learn it. I've got to think that there's too much important stuff left out of the half-hour format - kind of like HGTV, when the "contractor/narrator" says, "Now, here's how we install crown molding" and shows the first piece going up - cut to commercial - and we're back: "Now that all the crown molding is up..." (I've installed crown molding - neither fast nor simple, since layout and cutting is all upside down and backwards.) Did I mention that I watch HGTV because I love my wife, and she enjoys it? (She reciprocates by watching John Wayne and Lord of the Rings movies with me - like I said, no accounting for taste!)

I'm not knocking your choice; if you find it interesting and entertaining, I think it's great - that's why we have different networks. But you asked what we all thought, and that's my admittedly uninformed opinion. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong - just possessed of different interests.

I never really got much into the flashy, "staged" survival shows (Man v. Wild, Man-Woman-Wild, Dual Survival) but I do thoroughly enjoy Survivorman since he is out completely on his own, filming everything himself, and actually surviving. The others just demonstrate survival techniques and then after filming wraps up for the day go back to a cushy base camp, hotel or lodge.

I tried making a fire piston from several sets instructions I found on the internet. I purchased all the right parts from various stores, machined them just so. I worked on it in my garage off and on for about a month. Finally I gave up and purchased one. About a month later on Man Woman Wild I saw him scrouge up all the parts he needed to make a fire piston like it was nothing. Then start a fire with it. Either this guy is really really really good or I am just horrible. I like to watch these shows mainly to get creative ideas, but the reality of it is way out there.

Huh..never heard of a fire piston. Watched a video of one on Youtube. Seems like alot of trouble, why not just use a lighter? If you have access to the materials for the fire piston then you're not really in a survival situation I guess, whereas if you can learn to start fire with a couple of sticks and maybe a shoelace you will always have a good chance at making fire.

Yeah I know the shows are still "TV" and not the same as getting a real outdoors education, but it beats watching "Big Brother" or about 90% of the other crap on TV. I do get out in the woods often but not often enough, this thing called a job and other things called famility responsibilities keep me around the house most of the time.

But I can tell you this, between watching these shows with my sons, the time we spend hiking and camping, and then practicing some of the survival skills we see on the shows they will stand a better chance of surviving than most of the rest of the population.

My first backpacking trip was in Survival School in the Air Force. I'd done a lot of camping before in the Boy Scouts.

One nice thing about starting out with survival school is they don't give you much, so later, you don't need much.

If I were to teach survival school by internet, I'd make a list of skills to learn. Firestarting is one you chose. The next might be making a shelter. You could learn compass use and traveling in a safe area just using a compass. They can be as accurate as a GPS.

Each skill you learn will lead to a new one.

Edibles are the tough one. There is a lot of bad information out there. It's not just the plant, but the time of year and the preparation method.

The most important skills are mental. It's hard to teach being calm in difficult situations. Often the best thing to do in a survival situation is to make coffee and spend a night before doing anything.



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I haven't seen much of any of those shows, but I do hear about some of them and occasionally look up a scene on youtube to watch.

A few years ago I heard about the "Super Shelter" show on "Dual Survival" and that really interested me so I played around with that concept. Last winter I ended up making a "Baker's Tent" with "SOL Emergency Blankets" and I have to say that it works way better than I expected, in fact, it's pretty close to amazing.

As far as wild edibles go, years ago I bought a book called "Wild Edibles of Missouri" (it's out of print, but free to download now), and started scrounging around with it in hand. The truth is, just about no matter where you are the pickings are pretty slim even during a good year. To truly survive that way you'd spend most of all day gathering up enough to sustain yourself, and still end up hungry on many of them. Still, it's important knowledge to have.

I also bought a book called "Ozark Wildflowers". This book contains a ton of great info because it includes info on medicinal flowers and herbs and descriptions of Native Indian uses (which often coincide with modern uses).

Both of those books are relevant beyond the borders in their titles as many of those plants can be found in very broad ranges.

Some years ago I found an artifact here that's called a "Cupstone", and it sure looks to me like it was used to create fires (though I'm not educated enough to say for sure, I'm really tempted to use it to try and start one) .

Phat has actually started a fire using a bow drill, I still haven't given that a shot, but I think I'll play with it this winter (though I'll probably resist the urge to use the Cupstone).

I put a bit of practice to survival skills every time I go out. I used to go out with the intention of getting "Lost" and finding my way back. I'd just ramble for a few hours and then practice locating my position on a map. After a bit I found it difficult to get lost because you learn to think of it in the bigger picture, and you're just not really ever lost, even if you don't know exactly where you are. I'm sure it'd be easier out west to get lost than here, where at best you have maybe 30,000 acres to try.

I also practice finding specific spots, like springs and caves shown on Quad maps, and that's a bit of a different challenge because you have to hit the mark dead on, and sometimes springs stop flowing, or the water might start perking out somewhere else, and caves can be really tricky because the mouths can be small and covered with vegetation.

When I took my kids out I'd point out things along our way and when it was time to head back I'd ask them which way to go. It wasn't long before they figured that out and got good at it.

It's all fun when you're practicing. My skin's never been on the line yet, but it helps knowing your not clueless, and you're prepared to a reasonable degree.

Here's what we wrote on our website about these shows--agreeing once again with Lori.

Man Vs. Wild, Survivor Man, and almost any of those supposedly “realistic” TV shows about living in or escaping from the woods. Are they entertaining? You bet, but not for the reasons that the producers usually think they are.

The number one survival rule in the wilderness is: Don’t do anything stupid. And that rule is followed by: Stay warm, keep hydrated, and look for ways to minimize the dangers you face.

So what do the “heroes” of these shows do? They take every silly risk they can, just to show off their “skills.” They jump off waterfalls, cross frozen lakes, eat foods that make them vomit, leap or tumble down incredibly steep slopes, jump into the water every chance they get, and generally do anything they can to show the average American how to die quicker.

Our solutions? Climb down the slope, rather than jumping in the waterfall. It may take longer, but it won’t break your leg, give you a concussion, or drown you. Go around the frozen lake. That way you stay dry and warm, because hypothermia is your single biggest danger in the snow—especially if you’ve been stupid enough to fall into a frozen lake. Don’t eat anything that is at all questionable. You can live for weeks without food, so why go to all that trouble (and spend ALL THAT ENERGY!) to catch or harvest something that has so little nutritional value? Instead of going straight down the steepest slope, use your brain instead of your brawn, and find an easier and safer way that doesn’t include the risk of broken bones. And stay dry. Hypothermia loves wet people.

Of course, if you have a full TV production crew with a helicopter nearby, you can take any risks you want. Just don’t try to sell them to us as "outdoor skills" to use when your survival depends on your common sense in the wilderness, instead of the helicopter.

Come to think of it—this isn’t a nit to pick. These people are nitwits, and probably do more damage than good.

When I taught at NOLS we would say that everything the students were learning on the course were "survival" skills. The skills that PREVENT you from ever getting into a survival situation are as important, if not more so, than specific "survival" skills once you got into a survival situation due to stupidity. We did 4-day (45 mile) survivals in those days. It was thought of as the "final exam" for the course. In groups of four, students had to walk out to a pick-up. They had all their equipment, but no food. They had been taught the edibles and could fish. None came out "well fed". They all learned the limitations of foraging for food and the huge role that your mental state played. They also learned the importance of group dynamics and leadership in those situations. I have done two survivals myself and it has allowed me to realistically evaluate what it is like to be without food for 4 days. I realize that I am not going to "live off the land" for very many days if I also have to make some miles to get out! PS- there were not GPS's back in those days. In fact, a lot of the 7.5-minute maps were not even made yet, so we had to go off of 15-min maps. Also, on my first course, we did not even have stoves - had to build fires if we wanted to eat! We certainly learned how to build fires in all sorts of poor weather (including everything covered in a foot of snow).

I agree that most of the survival shows on TV are rediculous if not dangerous. I hope everyone knows that they are simply entertainment.

You can get the Army Survival Manual online here:

http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/FM21-76_SurvivalManual.pdf

I think it's an old one, but it's pretty entertaining.

A few years ago, Jason Klass did a series of survivor show parodies called "Survivor Stud" which are absolutely hilarious! You can find them here. I'm only sorry he hasn't done more!

Good replies everyine, thanks for the input. I'm always impressed with the amount of good advice and number of very knowledgeable people on these forums!

On the subject of forraging, Bill I think you are right, most of the time you could spend all day looking for food sources and still end the day hungry. I don't think there were many overweight Native Americans!

I think I would be satisfied if I thought my kids could survive a night or two lost in the woods and not be traumatized by the experience. I think that's a achievable goal and our training begins this fall!

For young children, I'd start with this book, out of print but used copies still available: "Lost in the Woods," by Colleen Politano.

BC Search and Rescue has developed a program based on this book.

I was reading this book to my 7-year-old grandson last weekend, and both his 10-year-old sister and 12-year-old brother came by to listen!

I can't remember if it was someone on this site who suggested this book several years ago, but I bought it then for the grandkids. My thanks to whoever suggested it!

Kids actually have a much higher survivability rate than adults do when it comes to being lost in the wilderness. When they are tired, they sleep. When they are thirsty, they drink. They don't tend to wander very far from where they got lost. Where they need some extra training is to teach them to hug a tree (stay put) and to respond when searchers call their name - they will sometimes sit quietly or even hide out of a fear that they will get into trouble.

Adults just keep making silly decisions, walking farther and farther, not listening to their body's cues to eat or sleep or drink, and continue to panic. People are frequently found with full backpacks and intact gear, sitting there dead, because they let themselves get hypothermic or so dehydrated they can't exercise any real judgment in the situation.

One problem with kids is that first, they fear punishment for wandering off and getting lost. Another is that we teach them to avoid strangers, sensible in the city but not when they're being searched for in the wilderness. We need to reassure them that (1) parents will be so happy to find them that there will be no punishment and (2) the strangers rule doesn't apply out in the woods, especially if they are lost.

The "Lost in the Woods" program goes far beyond "Hug a Tree," although I've incorporated that in teaching my grandkids also.

One rule we have is that the kids never leave the tent without a whistle on a cord around the neck--a loud whistle!

BTW I did order the "lost in the woods" book from Amazon. It's a good book, probably aimed at 5-7yr olds but the basic ideas of staying in place, not sleeping on the cold ground, not eating questionable (or any) plants, etc, are good lessons for most kids I guess. Thanks for the book reccomendation!