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#164200 - 03/20/12 03:07 PM Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
The title says it all. The results of a study conducted in the White Mountains of California suggest that ibuprofen may lessen the effects of altitude sickness. For the full details, see the following; here

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#164210 - 03/20/12 04:55 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
immortal.ben Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 91
Loc: Arizona
That is pretty interesting. Thanks for the link, it is now bookmarked.
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Life is a verb.

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#164221 - 03/20/12 07:35 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
For years I have taken Advil the first night I sleep at high altitude. I just did it because I figured I would get a headache anyway and no point having to wake up and take the Advil later. The study says it is not sure why it works. So does it prevent the physilogical changes that cause altitude sickness, or just mask them? Even at sea level, I get a headache, take two Advil, headache goes away. It is hard to say if it "works" for me because I an lucky in that I rarely am affected by altitude. I think for people who know they cn tolerate ibuprofen, using it the first few days at altitude is a good idea. There are enough nasty side-affects of ibuprofen that I would not do it on a continued basis.

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#164222 - 03/20/12 08:05 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
That is interesting. I wonder how natural remedies might do in the same test.
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#164232 - 03/20/12 10:17 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Quote:
I think for people who know they cn tolerate ibuprofen, using it the first few days at altitude is a good idea. There are enough nasty side-affects of ibuprofen that I would not do it on a continued basis.


That was my take on it as well. I am constantly on the look out for my wife as she is one of those who get hit at 7000 ft elevation.

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#164233 - 03/20/12 10:18 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: billstephenson]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Bill, you have my complete attention...what natural remedies are you referring to?

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#164241 - 03/21/12 12:55 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: billstephenson]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
As far as altitude sickness, I used to take diamox and still do sometimes, but its a prescription drug with some dangerous complications taken with aspirin.

There is a great deal of profesional discussion about the actual mechanism of altitude sickness. Its a combination of lower oxygen being available, than the body is accustomed to and has the hemoglobin to deal with, water retention in cells and blood ph problems from out of balance carbonates in the blood. Diamox helps regultae the blood chemistry and also helps prevent high altitude sleep apnea.

However the main problem is edema - swelling of tissues from cell water retention. Diamox is like a mil-spec diuretic - it pulls the excess water right out of you. Cerebral edema that causes headacues is due to brain swelling and pushing against the skull and in the worst case it squeezes its blood feed off and dies.

Ibuprofin, tylenol etc, may help you sleep, but don't actually help the problem. A low salt, low sugar diet will help prevent the cells from absorbing a lot of water, coffee and tea will help remove fluids, and not allowing yourself to become over exerted the first few days will help control the affects of altitude. (do not drink Swiss Miss hot choclate mix)

Climb high, sleep low - if you can, descend 1,500 feet below your highest point to sleep, and try not to raise your sleeping altitude by more than 1,500 feet per night - and thats a bit much for many people. When I moved to 4,000' from sealevel it took 6 weeks to fully acclimate.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#164246 - 03/21/12 02:53 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
There was some talk about ginkgo as an AMS preventive, but I have never read confirmation of the early trial success.

But if you take your pet rat....

NIH--Ginkgo

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#164249 - 03/21/12 08:20 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
I saw that article yesterday. It might work for some folks but certainly didn't work for me.
I once obtained permission to spend three nights on Mt. Evans in Co. (14,265 ft.) for some telescope work. We made the mistake of driving from here (581 ft.) to there in one day.
No amount of ibuprofen would make the headaches and other symptoms go away. By night 3 we were miserable.
A 2000 ft. drop in altitude, and all symptoms went away like magic, but drugs did nothing. I've skied most of my life but never ran into anything like this before.
_________________________
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#164253 - 03/21/12 09:37 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: Dryer]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I believe they had people take the ibuprofen (or placebo) while going up in altitude, not after they reached altitude. Basically, it was prior to symptoms showing up I believe. 14k!!!...that is 3 days minimum for me to get to that altitude and not have symptoms.


Edited by skcreidc (03/21/12 09:37 AM)

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#164277 - 03/21/12 02:53 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
PerryMK Online   content
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1392
Loc: Florida panhandle
I've been reading about avoiding altitude sickness for an upcoming trip to Peru in September. There are two things that seem to work according to people's experiences and medical web sites.

One is iron to increase oxygen in the blood. I plan on taking GNC Women's Iron Complete a couple of weeks prior to leaving and for the duration of the trip.

The other is an electrolyte replacement drink like Gatorade or Powerade. Even the powdered versions that can be added to bottled water are reported to alleviate symptoms. It has something to do with quick carbs and electrolytes.

The other advice I read is don't drink alcohol especially to excess the night before and avoid smoking.

EDIT: I tend to ignore the advice of people trying to sell me their product so ginko got scratched off the list. I didn't find anything independent that claimed it helped.



Edited by PerryMK (03/21/12 02:55 PM)

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#164280 - 03/21/12 03:49 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By skcreidc
Bill, you have my complete attention...what natural remedies are you referring to?


They cited the anti-inflammatory properties of ibuprofen, so I did a search and there are several, turmeric and ginger being noted most often.

I was thinking more along the lines of White willow bark, since it's close to aspirin.

The placebo effect difference in the test groups was interesting. I would have like to seen the stats for a control group that took nothing so that could be compared too. I suspect that in this case it might have been very close to the placebo group.
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#164313 - 03/22/12 09:05 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: billstephenson]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Bill. Thanks for the info (we use tons of fresh ginger at our place). I'll be curious to look into those.

Quote:
The placebo effect difference in the test groups was interesting. I would have like to seen the stats for a control group that took nothing so that could be compared too.


It would be interesting to look at that. They started with the estimate of 20-30% of the popluation show symptoms at 7000 ft, and 50% at 10,000 ft. And with 63% of the placebo population showing symptoms at 12,000+ ft, it would just be informative to see all the numbers.

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#164327 - 03/22/12 03:16 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Assuming that the placebo was just a pill with only inert ingredients, as it usually is, that group was the control. A placebo always an inert pill with no effect, but using a placebo instead of nothing at all for the control removes the psychological effect of taking/not taking something (which can be considerable). Using a placebo for the control group also means that the study is double-blind, because nobody except the researcher in charge knows what they are taking (the pills look identical). This is extremely important in any drug study, and the article would not have been publishable if the placebo hadn't been used.

I'm always skeptical about a single study involving such a small group. On the other hand, if I go to the Wind Rivers this summer, I'll probably try it. I agree with Jim that ibuprofen is not a substitute for proper acclimatization procedure, but maybe it will help speed things up. My main AMS symptoms are fatigue, listlessness and loss of appetite. If ibuprofen helps even a little with the first two, I'll be happy! (I always have enough extra weight that loss of appetite is probably a good thing. :D)

Ibuprofen can have its own side effects, such as internal bleeding and kidney damage, when taken indiscriminately. No medication is harmless! If you take it, it's extra important to keep well-hydrated (dehydration definitely contributes to AMS as well as a lot of other nasties).

A few more details (such as dosage) are here in a Stanford Medical School news release. I'm trying to get a copy of the original Annals of Emergency Medicine article from my son-in-law the ER physician.



Edited by OregonMouse (03/22/12 03:40 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#164540 - 03/29/12 04:08 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: OregonMouse]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I just heard back from my son-in-law-the-ER-physician (who is also a backpacker). Here is his response:

"I actually would hesitate to embrace these findings as a replacement for acetazolamide (which is actually very cheap, although you need a Rx) as we know that acetazolamide cuts the risk and symptoms by 75% [vs. 57% in the ibuprofen study] and there is no increased risk if you stop the drug while at altitide, while we know that dexamethasone, a steroid antiinflamatory, also works and may work in a similar way to ibuprofen, is dangerous to stop suddenly while at altitude. The other problem with embracing this early study on ibuprofen is headache is part of the diagnosis of acute mountain sickness, and this study doesn't appear to break the component symptoms down, just the "development of acute mountain sickness." I think since ibuprofen definitely decreases symptoms, it's a great choice for going under 10,000 feet, but until I hear more, I would stick to acetazolamide for higher ascents with inadequate acclimatization."

He also suggests that because it is dangerous to stop dexamethasone once started for altitude sickness, there might possibly also be some problems with stopping ibuprofen. In any case, more research is indicated.

_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#164553 - 03/29/12 06:47 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: OregonMouse]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Ibuprofen is my pain killer of choice at sea level. I take it enough that I know the right dose and that I tolerate it well. I would hesitate to take it for altitude if you have not used it before.

Lots of things cause headaches. I often get nausea just from a headache, even at sea level. Add first day stress of a trip, probably not sleeping well night before, eyestrain from driving to the trailhead, sinus problems, and a host of reasons other than altitude for feeling off. I generally do not get altitude sick, but I think I have a tendency to migranes. When backpacking I take ibuprofen at night simply to reduce the aches and pains of old age! For some reason other pain killers do not work as well. So I really cannot say if reducing altitude sickness is a by product of that, or if I just do not get altitude sick! By the way, I do not take ibuprofen after I feel nausea. If I take it too late, it just makes me throw up. I have also found that a cup of hot miso soup really works well.

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#164571 - 03/30/12 11:37 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: skcreidc]
chris angus Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 4
Loc: england
Hi, as one who rarely suffers the milder forms of altitude sickness, i go to full blown hallucinations over 12,000 feet. To such an extent that i cant even see the path beneath my feet which was only two feet wide with an eight hundred foot drop the last time it happened ,i too was interested in the ibruprofen story and will definately try them next time. These days i take diamox which really helps me though i do get odd side effects from them.Anyway i was speaking to some guys who run a well regarded trekking company in the Himalayas where i am lucky to do all my hiking and they said that they all took and reccomended the homeopathic remedy Coca v1 power and that it was better than Diamox with NO side effects.Any body heard of this? Its something else i will be trying on my next trek, though i will be taking the Diamox along , just in case.

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#164584 - 03/31/12 08:34 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: chris angus]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I think I will move up gradually, and climb high, sleep low, rather than resorting to drugs and chemicals.

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#164641 - 04/04/12 02:29 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: PerryMK]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Perry:

Rick D mentioned "ginkgo as an AMS preventive" and you were reluctant because their testimonials are tied to their sales pitch, such as this one:

Ginkgo Biloba helps prevent altitude sickness

In the above pitch, the author mentions a study "with 40 college students on Pikes Peak (where) half the subjects took ginkgo for five days before a quick auto trip up the mountain." That sounds less like a controlled scientific study than it does the inane plot of a Gidget sequel; I can see why you'd be hesitant to bite on this one.

Years ago,I had a horrible bout of altitude sickness when we flew in from Miami to do Belford/Oxford/Missouri Mtn. (three 14ers) on our 3rd day in Colorado.

On subsequent trips I kept seeing these 'brand-name' packets of pills in mountain-town drug stores for preventing altitude sickness and used those (with great success) until I realized that their primary ingredient was ginkgo biloba, so I just took gb starting a week before headed from Miami to the mountains. I still recommend and provide lowland visitors with gb when they come and want to go hiking or stay at my friend's cabin at 10,800' near Fairplay.

And since ginkgo is safe and can't hurt, Perry, maybe you should consider adding it to the regime before your trip.



And, of course, you could do what the natives do and chew you some cocoa leaves when you get down there...

... probably the best natural remedy.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#164643 - 04/04/12 12:03 PM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: kevonionia]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Great post Kevon, and thank you for sharing that.

I hadn't heard of GB for altitude sickness but I take it everyday for tinnitus (ringing in the ears) and it works great.
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#164669 - 04/05/12 11:13 AM Re: Ibuprofen may ward off altitude sickness [Re: billstephenson]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
I don't normally get many sumptoms of AMS, but my wife does more frequently. On our trip to Cusco last year, we took Diamox. This was following a consultation with our physician, and also my father-in-law, who is a physician.

Since they tell you to start the dosage early, we started taking the Diamox when we got on the plan to Peru. (After all, with the airplane cabin pressurized at 7,000 feet, you might as well use that to acclimatize yourself!)

We landed in Cusco (10,600) and had no troubles--although we made every effort to stay hydrated at all times, and drank Coca tea whenever it was offered--which was 4-6 times a day.

We did not have any issues with the altitude there, (the trail to Machu Picchu gets up to about 14K) but I stopped taking the Diamox after a few days---didn't think it was doing anything for me.

And my wife is convinced that the side effects of Diamox were part of why she feel lousy the last day we were in Cusco...

If I were to do that trip over again, I would simply use the plane as part of my aclimatization, spend a few days taking it relatively easy in Cusco, and then have fun.

I think my wife might still take the Diamox.

You can read about out trip to Peru on our website


Edited by balzaccom (04/05/12 11:14 AM)
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