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#163893 - 03/14/12 04:58 PM My personal stove journey
Tye Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Texas
My own personal, and hopefully somewhat humorous stove journey.
Start by reading and learning from the web; alcohol sure seems to be a hit. I've got everclear, great I'll make a penny stove. It works, but what am I gonna do with that stupid penny to not loose it, and getting alcohol in and out is odd at best. So, what the hey, I get one of the Trangia stoves; it has a cap and O-ring. Thing works ok. Used it a couple times on solo "missions." I say works OK, not super great and tends to blow out a bunch before warming up. No, biggie, I'll live. Looking for something better still; Esbit seems to fit the bill. Yea right, I kept those damn esbits in a ziplok bag in my backpacking gear and the smell still made it's way through. Actually using that thing smells like working at a petro plant; without getting into that crudgy soot. Ok, back to alcohol.
Then, I sign up for a 3 day/2 night hike with a total of 23 people. Dinner time; everyone breaks out the food hardware. Two jetboils and all the rest are the little canister stoves. All but, one...me. I had brought the alcohol stove with me. I am there jacking with lighting, windscreening, re-lighting, windscreening, re-lighting, and finally heating up a little food. While I was there like a big doofus waiting and waiting for the water to get warm; most all other had cut off their stoves and were eating.
The next night, we had a more "together" campsite where everyone cooked in the same area while visiting and I watched them with those stoves. I am such a goober, or at least that is how I felt, oh, yea , and hungry.
I gave my esbit and esbit stove away, and the Trangia alcohol thingy didn't make it back with me either.
I just got in one of the Monatauk Gnat stoves. The stove and canister fit into my little optimus cookset perfectly. I'll give this a go.
Just sharing my futile experiences for those new to stoving and just for entertaining reading.

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#163895 - 03/14/12 05:48 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Bought a SVEA 123R in 1977. Still using it.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#163897 - 03/14/12 05:50 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Sounds like my experience with a group backpack in the 1980's. I had an MSR Whisperlite. Everyone else took the only version of a canister stove at the time, the Bluet. Result--I was still pumping when everyone else's water was boiling; everyone else had finished eating by the time my water boiled!

Needless to say, I went out right after the trip and bought a Bluet!

I have tried an alcohol stove but still prefer the canister stove for the convenience. Actually, after 8 days, the canister stove system becomes lighter than an alcohol system because the canister stove uses less fuel, which after a time makes up for the extra weight over alcohol of the stove and empty fuel canister. For shorter trips, I figure the convenience is worth the extra weight.

Your Mileage May, of course, Vary.


Edited by OregonMouse (03/14/12 05:54 PM)
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#163899 - 03/14/12 06:34 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
I hear ya.

I felt like a guy that had a girlfriend but continued to cruise the internet for something better. I have bought and used many stoves and sold them or given them away. Yes, I had stoves that worked, but I had a longing for the perfect stove. I now have a stove that I think is "the one". It is the Caldera Cone with the 600 ml short Evernew pot.

Earlier today I offered to send Hikin'Jim any stove in my inventory for testing. But, I do not want to give up the Caldera Cone even for a few weeks. shocked



Edited by ringtail (03/14/12 06:35 PM)
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#163901 - 03/14/12 07:57 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Quote:
"While I was there like a big doofus waiting and waiting for the water to get warm; most all other had cut off their stoves and were eating."

I've been in that situation when I was the guy with the stove and my companions were going cookless. Now I'll roll that way too, for solo trips at least. Give it a try, maybe that could be the next step on your "personal stove journey".

The ultimate in lightweight and simple stove is having no stove at all. Kind of a zen thing ("what is the ultimate stove? no stove at all").
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Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#163906 - 03/14/12 10:03 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: BrianLe]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Gotta be careful getting sucked in:

"What's the ultimate shelter? No shelter"
"What's the ultimate sleeping bag? No bag"
"What are the ultimate shoes? No shoes"
"What is the ultimate clothing? No clothing"
"What is the ultimate pack? No pack."

Could be tough being zen-like in January in Minnesota! smile

(Couldn't resist - "what's the best humor? No humor")

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#163910 - 03/15/12 12:08 AM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
My experience has varied. About twice a year I end up using my alcohol stove to boil water for someone whose jetboil fails. Several of the group have started playing around making cat can stoves, leaving their jetboils at home.

Sure, people think they are the fastest around. The Primus Etaexpress Solo is faster and lighter and more compact (and cheaper) than a Jetboil. But, I don't own one of those either. Because there is more to life than speed.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#163917 - 03/15/12 08:03 AM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: lori]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I preferred a Trangia for SAR over any kind of gas stove (this was before most cartridges were available) because it was light and fiddle-free. I could start it and turn to other chores while it heated up water. In deep winter, I would carry a Primus - heavy but critical gear.

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#163918 - 03/15/12 08:54 AM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
Blue_Ridge_Ninja Offline
member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 98
Loc: North Georgia
Yet another stove thread? Good grief.... lol

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#163944 - 03/15/12 01:26 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I'm so with you Tye. My husband bought a MSR dragonfly to replace our very old, kinda heavy Coleman Peak 1 stove.

I'd say the boil times for both are about the same, but the dang MSR is a IQ puzzle to un-fold and LOUD. Like jet air plane loud (I'm exaggerating slightly.) I really prefer the Coleman stove and when I camp local I take it.

I tried making an alcohol stove, but I don't have the patience to wait until it boils water.

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#163945 - 03/15/12 01:29 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Blue_Ridge_Ninja]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
Some hikers feel about stoves the way certain other hikers feel about hammocks, which is akin to the way grandparents feel about their first grandkid: they believe there is no more fascinating subject for conversation on the face of the earth. shocked laugh

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#163949 - 03/15/12 02:38 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By Tye
While I was there like a big doofus waiting and waiting for the water to get warm; most all other had cut off their stoves and were eating.
lol. Been there; done that.

That's what finally got me to stop using my Whisperlite as my primary stove even though I was reasonably happy with it.

The trick with the different stove types is to tailor them to the trip. With a trip where you don't necessarily know everyone (say with some outdoors club), canister gas is good option since it's fast and has an easy set up and take down. That way you can keep up with the group and you're not holding up the show when it's time to hit the trail.

If it's just you and a buddy, then some of the "alternative" fuels like alcohol, ESBIT, and even wood are very workable, particularly if you've hiked together before and you both "know the drill."

For three or more, I'll usually go with gas. Alcohol, ESBIT, and wood seem too slow, and gas actually can save weight since gas has more heat content for the weight than alcohol. I've seen different estimates, but for my planning, I use five person days as the break even point where gas will start be lighter overall than alcohol. With three or more people, a trip that lasts for a full two days will be lighter on gas.

For trips with three or more where I know people really well, I might be willing to try wood, depending on the type of trip and the conditions.

I generally don't use white gas or kerosene stoves except for winter trips or when I just want to use a cheap fuel and time isn't super critical.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#163950 - 03/15/12 02:49 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: aimless]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By aimless
... the way grandparents feel about their first grandkid: they believe there is no more fascinating subject for conversation on the face of the earth. shocked laugh
I have no idea what you're talking about, but have I shown you a photo of my daughter lately? wink



HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#163954 - 03/15/12 04:42 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Hikin Jim]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Darling!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#163960 - 03/15/12 05:25 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
Yep, it sounds like you definitely had the wrong stove.
Penny stoves are tricky because you can’t see how much you filled up or how much is left.
I never could get into trangia stoves because of the weight. However, it does boil well so I’m surprised you had trouble with it.
If the stove works at 0F, at sea level, with NO priming, you have a nice robust stove.
One that fits that bill is the open top jet stove; like Mechanic Mikes on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/370554317255?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_2620wt_1396

“...and finally heating up a little food”
Alcy stoves are best at boiling water. Then dishes are eliminated. Pour the hot water into your ramen noodle cup (or ziploc); zip and wait 10 minutes while you set up your tent. walah! Hot soup on a cold night.

Also note, in actual use, the alcy system will weigh less up to 12 days (use) compared to a canister stove if there are no resupply points. A white gas stove like whisperlight, will never weigh less than its butane and alcy counterparts no matter how many days you stay out.

Furthermore, talking about the open jet alcy stove, hikers were interviewed “on the Appalachian Trail and found that this stove was the only design with a zero-percent failure rate…” [ Mueser, Roland Long-Distance Hiking]

In addition, the fuel is cheaper and you only have to take what you need; there is no fuel can to recycle, or worry that it’s out of pressure on its last drop. Alcy stays pressurized to its last drop even in the cold; no pumping required smile

Just more camp talk…
-Barry
The Mountains were made for Teva’s

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#163962 - 03/15/12 05:40 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Hikin Jim]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Clearly, you are a parent - no self-respecting grandparent would ever post ONLY one photo! smile

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#163963 - 03/15/12 07:27 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Heather-ak]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Heather-ak

I tried making an alcohol stove, but I don't have the patience to wait until it boils water.


Try buying one. A White Box, a Past Primitive stove, a Mini Bull Atomic - absolutely no trouble boiling water.

They are far, far cheaper than any manufactured stove. I can stand on the White Box and never damage it. Dead simple and a decently fast boil.

I have a box of stoves I tried to make and use - I keep them to remind myself when the geek starts to think, I could make one of those...
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#163964 - 03/15/12 08:12 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: lori]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
+1 to lori's list. I would also add the supercat, the ion, starlyte and fanceefeest to the list. All these stoves are easy to build, and fast to boil while being fuel misers. Personally I am not a fan of the double wall, jetted stoves. They don;t work as well sub-zero and are not as fuel efficient. Ironically, they are more difficult to build too. I guess some people like to see the little jets of flame.

My fanceefeest has bailed out a number of other stoves/users. A whisperlight, pocket rocket and jetboil. All were in sub-zero winter trips in either PA or NY.

For weight considerations and length of trip I use: http://www.howardjohnson.name/Backpacking/Stove/Stoves.htm
For my stove choice and fuel usage, alky is always superior to canisters regardless of trip length. Only esbit and no-cook is better.


In the end, any piece of gear is only as good as the user. Even though I use alky in winter conditions, I don't expect anyone to just try my stove at -20 and be ok. One must learn how to use their gear in the extreme conditions.
_________________________
http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com

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#163966 - 03/15/12 08:23 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Glenn]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By Glenn
Clearly, you are a parent - no self-respecting grandparent would ever post ONLY one photo! smile
lol.
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#163975 - 03/15/12 11:37 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Gershon]
anicinabe Offline
member

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Ohio
I lost mine! I loved the thing. I paid like no more than 30 bucks for it back in 1974. Wish I could find a cheap one...

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#164001 - 03/16/12 12:49 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
GrumpyGord Online   content
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Michigan
I am always amazed at the passion generated by stoves. I started out with a Peak 1 and then a SVEA. The SVEA is probably the most dependable stove out there but heavy and has a rather steep learning curve. I then went to alcohol using first a Trangia and then a Brasslite. Both good durable stoves with very little chance of failure. Recently I have been using a canister stove mostly because I am getting old and just want things to be simple.

One thing that amazes me is the focus on time. I am out there to relax and the fact that it takes 15 minutes to make supper instead of 10 is of no consequence in a non threatening and relaxed outing. What are you going to do after supper that an extra 5 minutes is going to make a difference? I am also amazed at the emphasis on cost of fuel. Folks are going out with a $400 jacket and a $400 sleeping bag and they are worried about an extra $5 for fuel. If folks are going out for LONG trips and in dangerous condition then we have another situation but I am sure that the majority of folks here are going out for less than week in very benign conditions.

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#164008 - 03/16/12 01:19 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: GrumpyGord]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
You must be a stably employed person who worries not at all about each and every dollar you spend.

Some of us scrimp every single dollar to afford things like the high dollar down bag, because we must prioritize. The cost difference between a canister and the same amount of denatured alcohol may not be significant to you. That's fine, but it's not true of everyone.

I can get a can of Fancy Feast at the dollar store, feed it to the cat, and have a working stove after a minute with a hole punch - contrast that with spending eighty bucks for a canister stove and there's a huge difference.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#164018 - 03/16/12 02:54 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: lori]
Tye Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Texas
Time isn't so much of an issue to me. But, being hunched over trying to keep a flame alive for an entire ten minutes isn't something I am willing to do. I am WAY too A.D.D. for that. I just cannot get the alcohol stoves to work in ALL conditions effectively.

I have thought about no stove at all, but what the heck, I'm not out there trying to prove a point. Sometimes, I want something warm or hot chocolate on that cold night.

In my "real life non-hiking" world, I am quite a bit of a minimalist. I do not keep anything that is not used. I try to not have more than one of most things. I own three pairs of pants (one dress jeans), two pairs of shoes (one running, one everyday), and I always have less than 10 shirts total. The same trend goes throughout my possessions. So, I cannot let myself keep the other stoves I sent elsewhere.

My post was merely for entertainment value. I have read so many stove and cooking posts, I realize there are those who have tried all and still prefer alcohol or esbit or jet boil or wood, etc. There isn't a thing wrong with any of those preferences. I learn a little from everyone. What is the phrase, Hike your own hike.


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#164021 - 03/16/12 03:49 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: lori]
GrumpyGord Online   content
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Michigan
I did not mean to imply that cost is never a factor and that prioritizing purchases is not a part of the whole deal. I was just pointing out the inconsistency for most folks. They spend willy nilly on some things which are overkill and then complain about spending a couple of dollars extra on some small thing like fuel. There are times when the expensive stuff is necessary and should be a priority. Stoves for the most part are not in that category for the weekend backpacker.

Actually I like the folks who spend willy nilly because almost all of my equipment comes from them when need more high end gear in this years model and sell last years model to someone like me.

Originally Posted By lori
You must be a stably employed person who worries not at all about each and every dollar you spend.

Some of us scrimp every single dollar to afford things like the high dollar down bag, because we must prioritize. The cost difference between a canister and the same amount of denatured alcohol may not be significant to you. That's fine, but it's not true of everyone.

I can get a can of Fancy Feast at the dollar store, feed it to the cat, and have a working stove after a minute with a hole punch - contrast that with spending eighty bucks for a canister stove and there's a huge difference.

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#164025 - 03/16/12 06:10 PM Re: My personal stove journey [Re: Tye]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Tye
Time isn't so much of an issue to me. But, being hunched over trying to keep a flame alive for an entire ten minutes isn't something I am willing to do. I am WAY too A.D.D. for that. I just cannot get the alcohol stoves to work in ALL conditions effectively.




Then you are using the wrong alcohol stove. This is a common mistake - people think that an alcohol stove is an alcohol stove, but there are many, many kinds, and some of them work for some purposes better than others.

I've used mine below freezing, high elevations, all seasons, for cooking as well as boiling water, and while at times I have failed to prime correctly I can honestly say that there is really no limitation for them.

I have two stoves that take longer than six minutes to boil - they are used for simmering or cooking. I won't pretend that alcohol stoves are the fastest stove around but there are stoves that will boil in less than five minutes. My cat can stove consistently clocks at 4 minutes.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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