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#156170 - 10/20/11 08:04 PM Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
First aid kit threads are some of my favorite on this forum and there hasn't been one in a while. I would like to get a survey of the most common health problems (and some serious problems) people have faced on the trail. I'd like to get a better idea of what I should expect out of my FAK. I haven't ever really had to face many issues on the trail (me or people in my group/met). My list is maybe:

1. exhaustion/dehydration
2. minor cuts and scrapes
3. blisters
4. splinters

1 isn't really an FAK issue, 2 is pretty minor (but I carry band-aides), for 3 I carry mole skin and donuts, 4 I have tweezers. What have other people faced? What do others think of as important health problems that you should be prepared for by carrying something in your FAK?

Other things I think it is important to plan for:

1. major cuts
2. sprains/strains
3. broken bones
4. diarrhea (pepto)
5. inflammation (iboprofin)

and things I think about preparing for:

1. nausea
2. headaches
3. allergic reactions/ poison ivy


Edited by BZH (10/20/11 08:07 PM)

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#156175 - 10/20/11 09:28 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
Actually encountered:

-Twisted ankles.
-Small second degree burn
-allergic reactions
-dehydration (lots)
-heat exhaustion
-blisters
-bug bites
-colds/flu
-lacerations (usually small)
-abrasions

The real problem that I had with the burn and the lacerations is the bandage changes that go along with keeping the wounds clean and dry, particularly when they are on hands. Went though a lot of supplies that way.


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#156180 - 10/20/11 11:28 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
For minor cuts, either apply a bandaid or do nothing. Carry tape, moleskin, or donuts for blisters, a very common problem. For splinters and cactus spines, I usually just leave them in and let them leave on their own schedule.

I have been on trips where every elastic bandage, about sxc in all, was pressed into service holding various knees and ankles together.

My basic kit is an elastic bandage or two, along with some decently large (4x4) dressings for big stuff, tape, assorted pills, safety pins, and barrier gloves. Splints are easily improvised, although I occasionally carry a SAM splint. Many items commonly carried have uses in first aid. On one occasion we had to fashion a cervical collar from a part of a foam pad for an individual suffering from a rock right in the head which destroyed his climbing helmet, but which did its job and saved his noggin.

More of your gear comes into play as you stabilize the victim, keeping him/her warm, and ready for transport. You may need to build shelter and fire up the stove. Having a signal mirror/strong light can come in handy for helping the helicopter find you, although we have built a fire for the same purpose. If things get complex, just about all your outdoor skills can be involved. Its knowledge, not so much gadgets, that is really necessary.

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#156185 - 10/21/11 09:09 AM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: oldranger]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
I was going to start a new thread on this, but I was really disappointed with what my first aid kit weighs. List and weights below:

Item Weight (oz)
a. CPR Mask (Microshield) 1
b. Rubber Gloves 3
c. Triangular bandages - 2 3.5
d. Ace bandage 2
e. Some roller gauze, 2" 0.25
f. roll of two inch tape 2
roll of easy to use tape negligible
g. 4-10 4x4 gauze pads
o. Moleskin (for blisters)
h. pack of band aids 1 (all of g,o, h)
i. small tube antibiotic 1
j. personal medications 1
Tylenol 1
Motrin 1
l. anti diarrheals (Immodium AD)
m. cold medicine (pills) - usually Sudafed
n. Benadryl 1 (all of l,m,n)
p. alcohol wipes negligible
r. tweezers negligible
s. Small nail/bandage scissors 1
bag 4

Total 22.75

My obvious places to start cutting are: the bag (4ozs!!), the gloves I was using (3ozs!!) the monster roll of tape (2ozs!!) and (after replacing those items with lighter alternatives) to look at stuff I don't need. For instance, do I really need both tylenol and motrin? Do I need to carry a tube of benadryl in the winter? How about those alcohol wipes - I'm carrying baby wipes for other reasons, and soap. What about the 2inch gauze - I have triangular bandages and tape.

This is still a work in progress for me.


Edited by Steadman (10/21/11 09:21 AM)
Edit Reason: system error

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#156189 - 10/21/11 11:50 AM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: Steadman]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Thanks for the reply's!

Steadman you have what looks like a typical off-the-shelf FAK with a couple items added. Meaning, it looks great if you don't have to hike it up a hill.

Somethings you have, that I don't (maybe I should). 1. Ace bandage - useful, but heavy and to my thinking most uses can be achieved with tape (or a cut up shirt) with little loss in function. 2. gloves - maybe misguided but to my thinking trying to maintain a completely sterile environment in the backcountry is a fools errand. Washing hands will keep my hands more sterile than the environment the wound is likely to see. Alternatively, treating someone else's wound could contaminate me, but if someone has a serious wound I'm probably going to start treating it before I get my FAK out, so cross-contamination is inevitable. Perhaps misguided, but that is my thinking.

I really enjoy reading what over-the-counter drugs people bring and was hoping for some stories/experiences where those came in handy. In my day-to-day life I rarely take over-the-counter drugs, but I can imagine situations in the backcountry where they might be an important safety item.

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#156191 - 10/21/11 12:02 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: Steadman]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Originally Posted By Steadman
Actually encountered:
...
-allergic reactions
...
-bug bites
-colds/flu
...

Were any of your OTC drugs critically helpful in these instances?

Originally Posted By Steadman

The real problem that I had with the burn and the lacerations is the bandage changes that go along with keeping the wounds clean and dry, particularly when they are on hands. Went though a lot of supplies that way.
I always assumed I just need enough to get back to civilization. Was this situation severe enough that you had to shelter in place?


Edited by BZH (10/21/11 12:03 PM)

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#156197 - 10/21/11 02:51 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
Actually encountered: Altitude sickness, many times. Some serious enough to require relocation to lower altitudes. Dehydration many times, resolved by drinking fluids and resting. small cuts and abrasions. I am thinking and thinking....and that's it.

Yeah, we carry more than just the stuff to treat those. But we also tend to travel off the beaten path, which means we are less likely to be called in to help someone nearby. And we seem to be pretty careful, so far nothing even remotely serious has happened to us.

Neither of us is a trained medical professional of any kind, although we've taken a few CPR/First Aid certifications over the years.

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#156200 - 10/21/11 05:17 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I have two packets of "Wound Closure Strips" that contain some gauze, adhesive bandages, and antiseptic.

Small assortment of band-aids, and a patch of moleskin.

Two needles, a bobbin full of thread, plastic thimble, small tweezers.

For meds I have a few each of antihistamine, advil, aspirin, and vicodin.

I carry a temporary filling kit.

A very small tin of Tiger Balm.

Chapstick.

A small guide to first aid.

I need to get some imodium. While writing this I was going through my kit to see exactly what I have in there now and that's missing.

I also carry a mylar emergency blanket, bug repellent, a "Skeeter Stick" (anti-itch stuff), some duct tape wrapped around a Bic lighter, some fire starters, and some "Hot Hands" in in the same ditty bag as my FAK.

As for things I've actually encountered, mostly just some scraps, bruises and achey muscles. I've strained my ankles a bit a few times, but haven't really sprained one while hiking, and I had a knee give me some trouble about 7-8 years ago, but a couple Tylenol I had with me got me back to the trail head.

So other than taking some advil or aspirin, besides the Chapstick, I've seldom used any of it. I have handed out a lot of stuff over the years though, and when the knee went bum on me all I had in my FAK was two Tylenol, which, as a rule, I never take. I had doled out all the rest of my stuff over the course of a few years and forgot to replace any of it.

I gave someone my temp filling kit once when they lost one. He was amazed when I pulled that out of my pack. I started carrying it years ago when I met someone else who had that happen to them on a backpacking trip and they said it was very painful.


_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#156202 - 10/21/11 05:53 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: billstephenson]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Originally Posted By billstephenson
...
I carry a temporary filling kit.
...
I gave someone my temp filling kit once when they lost one. He was amazed when I pulled that out of my pack. I started carrying it years ago when I met someone else who had that happen to them on a backpacking trip and they said it was very painful.


I never would have thought to carry that and even more surprised you have had the need for it ... twice... (I'm sure there must be an Ozark's joke in there somewhere... but I'm not going to make it smile )


Edited by BZH (10/21/11 05:53 PM)

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#156204 - 10/21/11 06:16 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
LOL,

The guy that told me about it was in Yosemite when he lost his filling, but the guy I gave my temp kit to was here in the Ozarks laugh

I've carried that stuff now for close to 20 years. It weighs next to nothing, but some of the worst pain I've ever suffered was a dry socket after having my wisdom teeth pulled, and I never want to go through that again frown
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#156207 - 10/21/11 07:33 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Originally Posted By BZH
1. Ace bandage - useful, but heavy and to my thinking most uses can be achieved with tape (or a cut up shirt) with little loss in function.


My experience has been otherwise. The advantage of an ace bandage, among other things, is that it provides controllable compression which can be easily adjusted - a real boon in many situations. Swelling can be a real issue and rewrapping can be required. An ace bandage will stay on a joint (knee) unlike a cut up shirt, etc. or tape. Not a problem if you don't mind adjusting the wrapping every 300 yards of so. I think I could more easily improvise a sterile dressing than anything that would give me the capabilities of an ace bandage.

One versatile piece of gear, usable in FA and many other settings is a nice big cotton bandanna. Don't leave home without it.

Again, what should be in your FAK is gear that is commensurate with your training and experience. The training is far more important than the widgets.

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#156210 - 10/21/11 08:06 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: oldranger]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Instead of ace bandage, I carry the self-adhering foam bandage known as "vet wrap." It is a lot lighter, will be needed if my dog rips off a dewclaw or otherwise injures a leg, and will work just fine on me for a sprained ankle or pressure bandage (I did some experimenting). You do have to replace it every year or two because the material eventually fuses together. It can be found at any farm store and most pet stores. Or can be gotten for free, if (like me) your daughter is a veterinarian! laugh

Which brings up an important point--you do need to replace the contents of your FAK periodically. Bandaging ages, or at least the paper covering does, OTC meds expire, etc. This was heavily stressed in my most recent Wilderness First Aid class.

I would like to urge everyone to take a WFA class if they possibly can! It's a lot different than your standard first aid class which assumes that an ambulance is just around the corner!



Edited by OregonMouse (10/21/11 08:08 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#156215 - 10/21/11 09:12 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: OregonMouse]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Quote:
Which brings up an important point--you do need to replace the contents of your FAK periodically. Bandaging ages, or at least the paper covering does, OTC meds expire, etc. This was heavily stressed in my most recent Wilderness First Aid class.


Yup! I hate it when I break into my kit for the triple antibiotics and notice the expiration date is 1999.

Btw, I'm still fond of the surgical form of super glue. Light and easy to carry.

Seriously tho folks, my kit varies in size. Much larger with inexperienced people with me than by myself.


Edited by skcreidc (10/21/11 09:16 PM)

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#156219 - 10/21/11 10:53 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: skcreidc]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Mine varies too--I take lots more stuff when taking out the grandkids! For me and the dog, it's primarily bandaids, blister stuff, a couple of gauze pads and tegaderm pads, the aforementioned vet wrap, antibiotic ointment (a couple of individual envelopes), tweezers, ibuprofen (for me), Rimadyl (analgesic for the dog), a couple of baby aspirin to chew in case of heart problems (never had any yet), anti-diarrheal, antacid and antihistamine. Except for the ibuprofen (poisonous to dogs) and Hysson's Rimadyl, everything does double duty for both me and the dog.

BTW, by far the most effective compresses for heavy bleeding are sanitary pads or incontinence pads. Both the WFA classes I've taken highly recommended them. I therefore keep a couple in my first aid kit, each sealed in its own sandwich bag. They are more absorbent and less bulky (also less pricey) than the compresses you buy in the first aid section. A plain gauze pad is of little use for heavy bleeding (cut artery or even vein).
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#156266 - 10/24/11 11:43 AM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: OregonMouse]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
...
BTW, by far the most effective compresses for heavy bleeding are sanitary pads or incontinence pads. ...


Yup, I know this from personal experience. My wrestling coach in high school always used them to stop bloody noses during matches.

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#156416 - 10/27/11 10:10 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
I have bad ankles - the ace bandage is useful here. It actually replaces 1/3 triangular bandages.

Gloves - well, I'll grab them out if I'm dealing with the messy and wounded. Cross contamination here is not acceptable. I grabbed some nitrile gloves to replace the kitchen ones. The problem is I KNEW the kitchen gloves wouldn't break when I needed them, but the nitrile ones very well might (I ripped through one two weeks ago when I guy did a header on the pool deck, and dented his dome).

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#156417 - 10/27/11 10:15 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
Yes, the OTC drugs are useful. One of the allergic reactions was when one of the kids in the troop got a jellyfish sting on the tounge. Alternative to bendryl was going to the hospital. One of the other Dads was a medic and we tried the benedryl - it got the reaction under control, and no trip to the hospital. Yes, we saved everyone several hundred bucks by having 50 cents worth of meds along.

As for the bandaging supplies, I don't want to have to go in for minor (stitches not required) wounds. Having bandaging supplies has, on several occassions, prevented that result.

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#156418 - 10/27/11 10:17 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: oldranger]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
I had to improvise an ankle wrap twice. It wasn't nearly as effective in either instance. The elastic in the ACE really helps.

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#156520 - 10/31/11 02:20 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: Steadman]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Thanks for all of the feedback!

Have you ever taped ankles? When I played football and had recurring ankle injuries we always taped ankles. It was a lot more supportive than an ace bandage and held up better. Ace bandages are nice for consistent compression, but for ankle injuries, now days, I prefer tape.

The one thing I wouldn't have in the backcountry is pre-wrap... but that just means you loose are your ankle hair at the end of the day. My football coach always seemed to get at least one wrap of tape off the pre-wrap... I'm pretty sure he wanted us to pull out some hair at the end of the day so we knew what it was like "back in the day"


Edited by BZH (10/31/11 02:24 PM)

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#156567 - 11/01/11 02:39 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
I used to have my ankle taped when I first blew it apart in high school.

The reuseable wrap is lighter, more comfortable, and cheaper to use. Further, I can redo it when swelling increases or decreases.

So, I think taping your ankle to regain mobility after an injury is an option, but it is a heavier, less flexible, and more expensive option.

That said, a sports medicine expert might have a different perspective.

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#156602 - 11/01/11 10:49 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: BZH]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By BZH
I'm pretty sure he wanted us to pull out some hair at the end of the day so we knew what it was like "back in the day"


laugh

_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#161844 - 02/08/12 02:11 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: OregonMouse]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Instead of ace bandage, I carry the self-adhering foam bandage known as "vet wrap." It is a lot lighter, will be needed if my dog rips off a dewclaw or otherwise injures a leg, and will work just fine on me for a sprained ankle or pressure bandage (I did some experimenting). You do have to replace it every year or two because the material eventually fuses together. It can be found at any farm store and most pet stores. Or can be gotten for free, if (like me) your daughter is a veterinarian! laugh


I carry this as well, and bought it at the local farm store. A nurse friend of mine told me it is the exact same stuff they sell in "human" stores labeled as self adhering. The difference is that the "animal" stuff is 3X cheaper, and with more color options. I have used it a couple times on my scouts, and my kids.

I also bring dog aspirin that I bought at the farm store. Of course, my dog carries it.
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#161918 - 02/09/12 08:24 PM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: finallyME]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
Bandaids, small ace bandage , vicoden, cypro , batracin, 6x6 pad 2, roll sell stick gauze, steristips, Tape I use duct tape off trecking poles. Splints a stick etc will improvise. Asprin, BP meds ,Imodium, Alc prep pads. And bye all means a fith of Vodka for medicinal purposes!

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#163246 - 03/04/12 12:35 AM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: Kent W]
Cole Pendell Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 24
Loc: Idaho
Here is my FAK.
Anybody have anything they would change?
1 Triple layer Gauze pad
2 Foam facial blocks (cleaning wounds)
1 Alcohol pad
1 Needle
1 super glue
1 large gauze roll
Ear plugs
10 Ibuprofen
4 Clariten D
1 Pepsid Chew
3 small butterfly bandages
2 band aids
Straw of Neosporin
Straw of Antihistamine
Small bobbin of thread
Batch book
.22 shell whistle
Cut down toothbrush + small vile of tooth paste
2x4" sheet of moleskin
Dropper of Iodine for wounds
Small Swiss that has scissors, tweezers, pick, knife
2 Imodium
Small vile of chapstick

Total weight
3.2 oz.

Anything you would change?
Trips range from 1-5 days

Thanks
~Cole


Edited by Cole Pendell (03/04/12 12:47 AM)

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#163251 - 03/04/12 08:41 AM Re: Backcountry health problems: an FAK thread [Re: Cole Pendell]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Cole, here are a few minor changes that I would suggest.

Not sure why you carry both the facial blocks and an alcohol pad. Soap and water should replace the "blocks".

You could use Purell or similar (from your toilet kit) in place of the alcohol pad.

The large gauze roll can be replaced by a bandana. In the past (I was an army medic long ago), I used gauze or triangular bandages to hold wound dressings in place; a bandanna works just as well since sterility is not an immediate issue. Actually, I carry a 2" Ace bandage since it can be used to support a strain as well as holding a dressing or splint in place.

Not sure how ear plugs relate to first aid, the same for the bobbin of thread and the toothbrush; you might want to carry these items somewhere else.

I would carry more than two band-aids and one gauze pad for any trip longer than just overnight; they need to be replaced fairly often to hold off potential infection.

I assume that "batch" book is a typo for match book.

I would take a more reliable whistle than a 22 shell and keep it somewhere on your person, not in the first aid kit. A fall that mooshes your lips could make a 22 shell hard to use.

I would drop the iodine: a lot of research has shown that it causes more problems than it solves.

I take along a few Benadryl tablets for allergies and I also take four 7.5/500 Vicodin tablets (prescription only) as super-strength pain killers.
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