Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#162957 - 02/28/12 03:57 PM Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
The titanium version of the JetBoil Sol might have a problem. A potentially serious problem.

Please note that my concerns pertain to the titanium version of the JetBoil Sol only.

Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION



Please note that not all the facts are in and that this is a CAUTION only at this juncture. The potential consequences of a failure are serious enough that I think a “caution” is warranted even though all the facts are not in.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top
#162960 - 02/28/12 05:12 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
Keith Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1667
Loc: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
I think what you have written is worth noting.

However, I'm not sure that the elements for an explosion are present. The gas won't burn without oxygen. Small drops of molten metal -- even though they are of high temperature -- don't have enough heat content to raise the temperature of the canister to anything like bursting pressure. Could they melt through the canister? Probably not -- not that I'd really like to find out. If I had a melting flux ring, I'm sure I'd turn off the burner.

Although explosion doesn't seem very likely, what could be really bad is if a sudden move or bump caused the metal to spatter. While it probably wouldn't be a problem to the canister, it *would* be a problem on skin -- or clothing first and then skin. This would produce a very bad burn.

Thanks for the heads up. It would be nice to see if JetBoil has a response.
_________________________
Human Resources Memo: Floggings will continue until morale improves.

Top
#162962 - 02/28/12 05:25 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Keith]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Hi, Keith,

Yes, an explosion is the worst case scenario. However, as you point out, there are a number of things that could happen short of an explosion, none of which would be particularly fun to have happen when your three days from the nearest trailhead.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top
#162963 - 02/28/12 05:28 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I have been looking at the titanium Jet boil ever since I saw it on the market. I didn't know that the flux ring was aluminum. I was wondering how they made it out of titanium and was still able to sell it for $150. But, here is what is nagging at me. Aren't all the other jetboil flux rings made out of aluminum? What makes this one different?
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#162968 - 02/28/12 06:23 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: finallyME]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Finallyme,
I see two differences with the Ti Jetboil:

1) The Ti is less conductive so more heat will build-up at the base of the pot.

2) The Al heat exchanger has a different thermal expansion than the Ti pot so every time the pot is heated up and cooled down it puts stress where the two are joined together.

I am guessing in these failures the heat exchanger breaks free from the pot. As a result the aluminum is not being cooled by the water in the pot and begins to get much hotter.

Also, having put blowtorches on aluminum before, I am guessing the heat exchanger is not melting but is burning away. I would be surprised if you get globs of molten aluminum.

The explosion warning comes from the excess heat building up and warming the gas in the tank. This will increase tank pressure which could cause the tank to rupture. If that happens you have high pressure/temperature fuel, air, and flame... that equals explosion. I am not sure what the actual explosion risk is. Since you would probably get a similar result by running the Jetboil dry, I would guess they designed the system to withstand such an event without exploding.

Top
#162969 - 02/28/12 06:33 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Bought one earlier this winter when Amazon was having a sale and have yet to fire it up. Maybe I'll wait to see what Jetboil has to say (if anything) first.

Ah, technology.
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#162976 - 02/28/12 07:13 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: BZH]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By BZH
I am guessing in these failures the heat exchanger breaks free from the pot. As a result the aluminum is not being cooled by the water in the pot and begins to get much hotter.
That's my surmise as well.

That's an interesting thought that the aluminum might actually burn rather than melt. Maybe there's a little of both going on? I updated my blog post to quote the original post I saw on-line. In that quote, he mentions drops of super-hot metal.

I also added links to various posts with reports of similar happenings.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top
#162978 - 02/28/12 07:25 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
There are so vastly many aluminum alloys with different melting points it's practically impossible to know what's occurring. Certain versions of aluminum do burn--yee haw! I guess it's a good thing the canisters are all steel these days (even if I miss the Primus and Coleman aluminum ones).

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#163004 - 02/29/12 09:34 AM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: BZH]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By BZH
Finallyme,
I see two differences with the Ti Jetboil:

1) The Ti is less conductive so more heat will build-up at the base of the pot.

2) The Al heat exchanger has a different thermal expansion than the Ti pot so every time the pot is heated up and cooled down it puts stress where the two are joined together.

I am guessing in these failures the heat exchanger breaks free from the pot. As a result the aluminum is not being cooled by the water in the pot and begins to get much hotter.

Also, having put blowtorches on aluminum before, I am guessing the heat exchanger is not melting but is burning away. I would be surprised if you get globs of molten aluminum.

The explosion warning comes from the excess heat building up and warming the gas in the tank. This will increase tank pressure which could cause the tank to rupture. If that happens you have high pressure/temperature fuel, air, and flame... that equals explosion. I am not sure what the actual explosion risk is. Since you would probably get a similar result by running the Jetboil dry, I would guess they designed the system to withstand such an event without exploding.


That makes sense. Now I am disappointed. Originally I was under the impression that the flux ring was titanium.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#163009 - 02/29/12 11:42 AM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: finallyME]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Based on the feedback I've received here and elsewhere, I toned down the language of my original post a bit, but I still think caution is advised.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top
#163010 - 02/29/12 12:05 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Originally Posted By Hikin Jim

That's an interesting thought that the aluminum might actually burn rather than melt. Maybe there's a little of both going on? I updated my blog post to quote the original post I saw on-line. In that quote, he mentions drops of super-hot metal.

I also added links to various posts with reports of similar happenings.

HJ


Yeah, after I posted I found the original report on BPL. What I believe happens, is the aluminum melts and the small droplets of aluminum quickly burn (oxidize). I am surprised he got molten aluminum. I am guessing most of the molten aluminum was created when he doused his stove with water. That rapidly reduced the temp of the molten aluminum and prevented it from burning.

Top
#163094 - 03/01/12 06:48 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: BZH]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Interesting.

Do you think that burning aluminum could account for the 3 foot flames? Seems like aluminum wouldn't do that, but I don't really know. Seems more likely that the gas in the canister got really hot and overpowered the pressure regulator.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top
#163098 - 03/01/12 07:55 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Originally Posted By Hikin Jim
Interesting.

Do you think that burning aluminum could account for the 3 foot flames? Seems like aluminum wouldn't do that, but I don't really know. Seems more likely that the gas in the canister got really hot and overpowered the pressure regulator.

HJ


No, Aluminum burning would not account for the flames. It certainly suggests that the tank is getting hot. Does the stove have an actual regulator or is flow controlled by an orifice?

Top
#163100 - 03/01/12 09:59 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: BZH]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
The Sol is said to have a regulator. I've never seen a teardown to indicate of what type. It would seem the failure mode is to fail open and prevent a canister bursting (IIUC this is how propane tanks work). Fun.

I don't want to be around for the experience, but I've seen Svea and Optimus blow-off valves go, so there's always the possibility.

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#163148 - 03/02/12 02:39 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: BZH]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
The Sol does have a regulator valve instead of a conventional needle valve.

I made pancakes this A.M. on my Sol. Danged tricky in the lower range of the valve. Not the ideal cooking stove.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top
#163159 - 03/02/12 07:35 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I made pancakes this morning, also. It is fairly easy on an electric stove set to medium low, with a non-stick griddle (am I getting soft or what....)

Top
#163226 - 03/03/12 05:50 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
BradMT Offline
member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 151
A BullChit anomoly...
_________________________
There Is No Bad Weather, Just Bad Clothing...

Top
#163249 - 03/04/12 02:51 AM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Had mine out this weekend for 3 days and it worked beautifully. I had one of the originals and in my very unscientific opinion the Sol boils water faster.
_________________________
If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

Top
#163336 - 03/05/12 02:48 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Trailrunner]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Went out this past Saturday to give cooking in the field on the JB Sol a shot.


The Sol is not my favorite cooking stove, but it will do the job.


HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top
#163343 - 03/05/12 09:20 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: Hikin Jim]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Wat a minute! I can tell right away that,whatever you are preparing in that pan, it is not oatmeal...Is that possible, and, if so, legal?

Top
#163345 - 03/05/12 10:30 PM Re: Titanium JetBoil Sol – CAUTION [Re: oldranger]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Illegal? Whoa!

No problem; I disposed of the, um, evidence.


HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

Top

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Featured Photos
Spiderco Chaparral Pocketknife
David & Goliath
Also Testing
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 180 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Noodles, McCrary, DanyBacky, Rashy Willia, WanderBison
13240 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
Backpacking.net
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 

Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum