Just because a piece of gear did the job for you does not necessarily mean it will do the job for everyone. That's especially true of insulation, because physiology and metabolic rates vary widely among individuals.

For example, look at the EN13537 ratings for sleeping bags. This is one of the few objective standards around for rating warmth of outdoor gear, although it applies only to sleeping bags. Page down on the above URL and you'll see a colored diagram showing the difference between the "comfort rating" for the "standard woman" (whatever that is) and the "lower limit" rating for the "standard man" (whatever that is). I prefer to translate these terms as "cold sleepers" and "warm sleepers," since I know men who are cold sleepers and women who are warm sleepers. The diagram shows that the difference between the two ratings is 5*C or approximately 9*F.

I owned a Marmot Hydrogen sleeping bag a few years ago and started getting cold in it when the temperature got into the upper 30's, even though it's rated at 30*F. Now that Marmot is using EN13537 ratings, it's easy to see why. The rating for men (translate "warm sleepers") is 29.8*F. The rating for women (translate "cold sleepers") is 39.2*F. I am definitely in the "cold sleeper" category, and these ratings explain quite well why I had to start wearing extra clothing inside the Hydrogen with the temperature in the upper 30's. By the time the thermometer got down to 30*F, I had all my insulating clothing on inside the bag to keep warm. When the thermometer dropped into to the mid 20's, I was shivering with all my insulated clothing on (and I had a lot of it; I was expecting those temperatures). According to the EN13537 ratings, that's exactly what should be happening. Evidently I fit the profile of the "standard woman" used for these ratings, so I'm not, as I once thought, an unusually cold sleeper.

Apply this 9*F difference between warm and cold sleepers to the NeoAir, ostensibly rated at 32*F, and you have the explanation why I started feeling cold underneath when the temperature dipped to the upper 30's. I had to use a supplemental CCF pad, which of course canceled out any weight savings of the NeoAir over the insulated air pad I had been using, which for me was comfortable to the low 20's F.

The "standard" used for the EN13537 ratings is, of course, an average, which explains why some individuals are comfortable with a 32-30* F sleeping bag or pad when the temperature is down in the mid-20's. There are undoubtedly some individuals who start feeling cold in the mid 40's F with identically rated items.

I also found the NeoAir uncomfortable, which was the other reason I returned it after 6 months of trying hard to make it work. The whole experience was a really good lesson for me about NOT choosing a gear item based only on its light weight! With its small horizontal tubes, I never could find the "sweet spot" of inflation between lying on an uncomfortably hard surface and having my hip bones hit the ground when I was on my side. I also kept rolling off the thing any time I got close to the edge. I've read that this is the most common complaint about the NeoAir--it feels narrower than other pads because the outside edge collapses when the body gets close to it. These findings are, of course, subjective, so again will vary widely with individuals.

The above experience, as well as the temperature ratings, is why I caution about the NeoAir to people looking for air pads, particularly if they're going to encounter cold nights. It's definitely not for everyone, and for many of us it's a summer-only pad (for the Cascades, but not for the Rockies). The NeoAir is also a very expensive piece of gear to try out. Although I've often been unhappy with REI, with the NeoAir I was very grateful for their return policy!

It's wonderful that you are happy with your NeoAir. I'm not trying to invalidate your experience. Please don't try to invalidate mine. We are each unique individuals, obviously with very different reactions to cold temperatures!

Yup, "true dat". Easy to just assume that but very worth mentioning that when I or anyone says "it works well for me" that the "for me" part might be the most significant part of the sentence.

Isn't that the truth!!!

I think it's a mistake to think of someone else stating their experience as invalidation. It's merely someone else's experience.

I am a cold sleeper, because I do start layering up quicker than nearly everyone else - I have good results with gear that others find cold, and bad experiences with gear that other people think is warm.

The problem with narrowing down your choices based on other people's reviews of the item in question is that there are too many variables - it matters how you use the item, where and when and how cold or warm it is, how the individual's body handles changes in temperature, and what you expect of the item vs. what the manufacturer claims vs. actual quality of said item. Too many people set up a tent, get wet, and blast it all over the internet that it's a bad tent, when they are really picking the wrong tent or setting it up poorly. I read a comment on a sleeping bag dissing the bag because "somehow water got into it and the liner was damp" - clearly not someone who understands that their body is giving off moisture all the time.

So all I can do is say what happened, and if it's different than everyone else's results - like the endless complaints of noise or cold with the NeoAir - that's just another point of information to the person requesting information. I really have no idea why I like the NeoAir and you don't - I think it's too narrow, but all pads are 20" wide, somehow I just learned to deal with it because it's been warm and comfortable and not at all noisy. I don't inflate it to capacity ever - perhaps that offsets some of what people complain about, because the less you inflate it, the wider it is.

Sorry if you feel like I'm attacking you in any way.

I didn't, Lori; I am just trying to point out that what works for one person doesn't always work for another, even when skills and knowledge are not at issue.

Speaking of reviews, how many have you seen that read something like this: "I took the (name of gear) on a three-day trip to (name of place). The weather was beautiful the whole three days. This is an awesome (name of gear)!" This was an actual review in the reader review section of BackpackingLight (not a review from their editorial staff)! I've seen similar on retail store websites. My idea of a good review is the kind found on backpackgeartest.org, where the reviewer tries to use some objective criteria and make a thorough evaluation over time. I won't even recommend gear I really like until I've used it at least a year and in really adverse conditions.

You notice that I said nothing about noise with the NeoAir. I understand that the noise complaint originated from the BPL review, from only the spouse of one reviewer and with a prototype rather than the final model (it would have been helpful if Cascade Designs had told them that). The NeoAir was actually the least noisy of any of the four different air pads I've tried! All of them make noise. My current KookaBay pad makes a horrible squawk if I plop down too hard. Fortunately, it's difficult to hear any air pad noises with a warm hat and several inches of sleeping bag hood over the ears!

I didn't read that post as an attack. Quite the opposite. I took it to mean that Jim has had, and still uses, high quality gear and that by most standards it would still be called high quality. New gear doesn't necessarily mean higher quality, or better, although it's often hyped to be just that.

And it's true, the reason I haven't had, or don't have, lots of high end gear is because I couldn't afford it (and all the other stuff I wanted).

I've often opted for high quality used items over lower quality new items. It's true, they don't make some things they way they used to, and it some cases that's not always a good thing.

If I had a high end down bag that worked really good for me I'd be really hard pressed to buy into something new no matter what the hype was, and if a really good piece of gear gave up the ghost I'd be slow to replace it with something new. I'd have to see what was used out there first.

I've bought into new technologies that were touted to be leaps better. I am very slow to do that now, and I don't mind getting my moneys worth out of what I have first.

Lot's of times the benefits of new technologies are real, and statistically significant, but still not statistically worth the cost of replacing what you have. That makes it a personal decision and it can be based on nothing more than wanting the latest greatest stuff. There is nothing wrong with that.

Lot's of people want a shiny new car. I want a car that will last a long time. All my cars have been used. I have to get them somewhere, so it all works out

Far better than any internet based review or even most discussions is a side by side comparison out on the trail when one of your companions brings along the Shiny New Toy and everyone else can gawk,pinch, and kick the tires to determine if it is the next Indispensable Item.

I can remember gasping in awe, tugging on my forelock, at the first stuff sack, first Kelty frame pack, first Primus, etc. and experiencing a convincing demonstration of their utility.

first Primus, etc.

Old as you are, I think the first Primus stove was before your time, oldranger. From Wikipedia:

"The Primus stove, the first pressurized-burner kerosene (paraffin) stove, was developed in 1892 by Frans Wilhelm Lindqvist, a factory mechanic in Stockholm, Sweden."

I have a collection of camp stoves. Not only do I enjoy having them, but I have this idea that someday someone is going to want to know how one performs compared to another or how one works or how it feels to use. And I will be able to show/let them.

Other times I think of an interview Jay Leno did at an auto show. He said this hobby (collecting cars) was for people with more money than brains. Maybe that's me on a smaller scale. But I still like to take one off the shelf every once in a while and fire it up just because I can.

I am afraid I didn't put it very preciseely. I'm referring to the first time I experienced a Primus- which was on Long's Peak somewhat later (1957) - a time when I was being exposed to a lot of new (to me) equipment and techniques. Fortunately one of those was nylon climbing rope.

In the end, what matters is not whether the gear is old or new, but whether it is appropriate.

Thanks for the reference. I have wondered just how old the technology actually is.... Still actually works pretty well.

That's the truth. I've got stoves going back to the 50's that work as well or better than anything new and it's just plain fun to fire 'em up. The Sveas, R-8's, Peak 1's, all get taken out still, just because it's fun to watch them go. Age has nothing to do with it.
I still would love to see a Titanium Svea or R-8 someday...it would revitalize the design.

I also still use an old Texsport dome tent I found blowing across the desert floor in 1984, and it was old then! Patched it up, replaced the fiberglass with aluminum poles, and it's still my go-to car camper-festival tent.

Since I make or modify much of my stuff, there really isn't a such a thing as 'old' gear. If it works, and fits the need, I use it. If it withstands the test of time, so much the better.

OM, my own experience is not even uniform. I consider myself a normal sleeper, but if I have hiked too many miles and go to bed chilled without supper then I need a kit rated about 15 degrees higher than the overnight low.

I camped last weekend with a guy just back from Afghanistan. I envy his youth, fitness and metabolism. He consistently wears one or TWO less layers than me. As a child I found that I needed to put on a sweater/coat/gloves when my mother got cold.

It is hard to be angry with people when their warnings are motivated by true concern about your confort and safety. However, knowledge is power and some use it to establish dominance.

If all our comments must be based on experience then Mr. Shaw and Brawny are the only ones qualified to comment on open flames in a tent.

I miss my mother and first assume that warnings are motivated by concern about safety and comfort. However, I always have a plan B.

Funny you should mention backpackgeartest - I may, once I finish reviewing all my gear, start pasting in links to them instead of telling the same story every time someone asks about something I have.

One of the useful things about that site is they require you to talk about the conditions you used it in and how many nights out you used the product.

However, it's not always easy to catch the reviewers who have fudged the numbers.... I don't, because I'm rarely caught short - I have the hardest time if I happened to have some illness or delay of a trip due to circumstances.

Lori, that is a great site.

I've been cleaning my basement and found an old pair of combat boots made in 1983. Comparing them to my Danner boots, I find them superior. Same weight. 5/8 inch heel to wear out instead of 3/16. .25 inch soles instead of .125.

Surprisingly, they are the same weight as my Danner's. Sadly, my feet got wider, so I can't wear them.

I also found some running shoes from the early 80's. I used to keep track on the mileage on the sides, so have good comparisons. One pair lasted over 1,300 miles. The soles on the others started to delaminate at the toes after 3 or 400 mils. Nothing a little shoe goo couldn't fix.

I read a review on the Merrill Moab Ventilator's. The review was good. Hidden in it, he said he could walk just as far in them as he could in boots. Personally, I find I can hike just as far and fast in good boots as I can in shoes. I use a GPS, so the comparisons are accurate.

I've become a bit of a boot afficiondo. Not high top shoes, but real leather boots handcrafted in the United States. I've really gotten to like walking through puddles instead of around them. And not getting wet in deep snow.

I'm considering Danner Mountainlight's.

I'm heading in the opposite direction on footwear I guess. I've been using a pair of Danner Mountainlights off and on since around 1985. Very comfortable if heavy by today's standards, and still in great shape.

I just got some Columbia Switchback mids to try to save about a pound off each foot. The last time I used "lightweight hiking boots" as they were called then was the early 1980s, when I had a pair of cordura nylon boots with cemented soles. Can't remember the make. They only lasted a couple of years, but I remember they worked pretty well.

Maybe my feet aren't that picky. When I was a teenager, I hiked in surplus Vietnam jungle boots for years, and I liked them too.

Without doubt though, the Mountainlights are the longest lasting boots I've had.