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#158807 - 12/16/11 09:37 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: DTape]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
I agree. Those who own Optimus Novas (me) learn/know that the valve is slightly open during storage. Failing to close it prior to pumping guarantees flareup outside the perimeter of the stove/bottle, on the ground. All stoves are firebombs in one way or another and user discretion and skill come into play.
Of all the man-made liquid fuels out there, alcohol is probably least dangerous.
Cigarettes don't seem to have valves when people flick 'em out of car windows....and lord knows I've picked up hundreds in my preserve, some clearly lit when they hit the ground based on the charred grass under them. Yet, smoking isn't banned during most fire bans. Burn-bans tend to be blanket laws, with loopholes.
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paul, texas KD5IVP

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#158827 - 12/16/11 07:30 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: lori]
RHodo Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Texas Hill Country
Lori,

Thanks for adding that, you're absolutely right. An unsupervised 16 yr. old male combined with flammable liquids could result in your own series of Allstate commercials.

Carbon monoxide emission is another good reason to only do this outdoors.

Thanks again.

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#158838 - 12/16/11 10:13 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: lori]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By lori
Deride?

I'm jealous of his collection! I own a lot of alcohol stoves but not that many!

I'm also jealous of anyone whose homemade stoves work.
Hi, "Stove Geek," er, Hikin' Jim here. That's my collection we're deriding/being jealous of. smile

Lot's of good comments on the topic here. My perspective for what it's worth: If someone's just starting out, then a stove made from a cat food can is really cheap and easy to make. It's not the world's greatest stove, but it's not bad, weighs 7g, and your cat will thank you.

On my blog, I have a post that might be of more interest to a beginner: Getting Started With Alcohol. On it, I have some general thoughts for someone starting out as well as a video from long distance hiker Andrew Skurka that goes through how to make a stove from a Cat Food can (it's really easy).

My latest post is Basic Tips for DIY Alcohol Stove Makers which is about turning aluminum drink cans into stoves, pretty good ones at that. My latest post is more about underlying principles. The "Getting Started" post is more of a step by step of how to make a specific stove.

I noticed mention of the Trangia. If you want a complete set, go for it, but you can buy the burner alone if you've already got a pan and windscreen that you're happy with. And, yes, I do have a review of the Trangia burner on my blog. I've got a whole bunch of other stuff on there, so geek to your heart's content. smile

Now, you'll have to pardon me. Apparently there are a couple of types of stoves still out there that I don't own. wink

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#158848 - 12/17/11 07:10 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Hikin Jim]
PappyBanjo Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 20
Loc: Maryland
Years ago I bought an alcohol stove made by Campsafe and it was a waste of money. Just last week, a freind of mine was raving about the one he made and said I should make one. "Just google it," he said.

That's when I found out how many designs there are out there. I made a "penny stove" out of soda cans, but it would only bring the water to a simmer. My freind then told me that his stove was made out of aluminum beer bottles and it bring water to a rolling boil.

So now I'm going to make that one and the collection begins.
_________________________
"Just enough to stay warm, dry, hydrated, and fed."

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#158850 - 12/17/11 09:32 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: PappyBanjo]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By PappyBanjo
Years ago I bought an alcohol stove made by Campsafe and it was a waste of money. Just last week, a freind of mine was raving about the one he made and said I should make one. "Just google it," he said.

That's when I found out how many designs there are out there. I made a "penny stove" out of soda cans, but it would only bring the water to a simmer. My freind then told me that his stove was made out of aluminum beer bottles and it bring water to a rolling boil.

So now I'm going to make that one and the collection begins.


A collection is how it begins. It soon may turn into an addiction!

An easy to make/use stove which I have used in sub-zero F conditions is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqkAjsP0QNo

http://blackgoatgear.blogspot.com/2009/02/fancee-feest-clone.html

or to just buy it: http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/fancee-feest.php

_________________________
http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com

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#158880 - 12/17/11 09:36 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: HeikeDog]
Paulo Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 158
Loc: Normally Pacific Northwest
I've made a lot of stoves and have not been that happy with the results of the fancy feast. A simple one that I like is the tomato burner (do a youtube search).

Tomorrow I was planning on putting together a DIY of the mini energy drink double walled stove. It's my new favorite and an excellent choice for most pots (because of the diameter) and a great choice for weight (9 grams).
_________________________
Without a doubt, the hardest thing of all in a survival situation is to cook without the benefit of seasonings and flavourings. - Ray Mears

http://theoutdooradventure.net

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#158881 - 12/17/11 09:47 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Paulo]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Quote:
"I've made a lot of stoves and have not been that happy with the results of the fancy feast."


Because ... ?

I'm not asking idly, or to be argumentative. I've on occasion recommended this stove to folks interested in trying alcohol stoves, because it's a combination of easy, cheap, and my personal experience with it was quite good. So if there's something not-so-good about it that I'm unaware of, I'd like to know that before I suggest it again, either person-to-person or in a group or class setting.
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Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#158904 - 12/18/11 05:50 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: BrianLe]
Paulo Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 158
Loc: Normally Pacific Northwest
All my tests have been at altitude (over 10000 feet) and i've just not found them to blossom too well. I'll try again as it has been a while.
_________________________
Without a doubt, the hardest thing of all in a survival situation is to cook without the benefit of seasonings and flavourings. - Ray Mears

http://theoutdooradventure.net

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#158906 - 12/18/11 06:13 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Paulo]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
That's not the altitude, it's the hole pattern, or the windscreen was snugged up too close to the pot choking off airflow.

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http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#158909 - 12/18/11 06:29 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: lori]
Paulo Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 158
Loc: Normally Pacific Northwest
could be, It's the only stove i've ever had problems with.
_________________________
Without a doubt, the hardest thing of all in a survival situation is to cook without the benefit of seasonings and flavourings. - Ray Mears

http://theoutdooradventure.net

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#158912 - 12/18/11 06:36 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Paulo]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
Oh, you had problems with a supercat made from a fancy feast can, not the fancyfeest stove designed by zelph which has no holes to deal with.
_________________________
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#158915 - 12/18/11 06:41 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Paulo]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I had a supercat out on a hike couple weeks back (first time in a while, so many stoves!) and it would not blossom - then I remembered, and moved the windscreen out about an inch all the way round, off it went like a rocket. The other bit is to have a square of foil on the ground under it if it's been cold at night - the ground is a really effective heat sink.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#159032 - 12/21/11 08:00 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: lori]
Paulo Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 158
Loc: Normally Pacific Northwest
My newest favorite is the mini energy drink side burners. If my internet wasn't so slow I'd have had a DIY up, but it'll probably finish this afternoon.

I'm not sure but it could be the same concept more or less of tinny's elite.


Attachments
smallsideb.jpg

Description: 1 and 2 can mini side burners


_________________________
Without a doubt, the hardest thing of all in a survival situation is to cook without the benefit of seasonings and flavourings. - Ray Mears

http://theoutdooradventure.net

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#159034 - 12/21/11 09:40 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Paulo]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
A recently released study states, that if present trends continue, that by the year 2020 87% of internet traffic will deal with the design, construction, and use of alcohol stoves. There will be a desperate shortage of empty pop cans and JB Weld. Alcohol will sell for over 100 dollars a barrel. The new nation of Iowa will dictate energy policy

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#159036 - 12/21/11 11:21 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: oldranger]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1115
Loc: Madison, AL
A guy posted this youtube video on backpackinglight. Pretty crazy stove: http://www.youtube.com/user/tetkoba#p/u/0/tvP74w74srU

Another video shows how to make it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXXxm1GosxQ

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#159047 - 12/21/11 12:26 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: BZH]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3973
Loc: Bend, Oregon
While I am really not into alcohol stoves, all of these videos make me wonder about the flame mechanics of alcohol stoves vs whitegas stoves and compressed gas stoves. When a flame touches a cold surface it cools and stops or slows combustion leaving unburned components and carbon monoxide. Alcohol stoves seem to have long flames that appear unstructured and sort of wrap around the pot. Anyway I had a friend who did a study of the flames inside a car engine and I was just starting to wonder. However it also seems that a flame can do a laminar flow too, so its a lot more complicated than it seems at first. Just wondering....
Jim grin
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#159050 - 12/21/11 12:55 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Jimshaw]
PappyBanjo Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 20
Loc: Maryland
Is it the flames that have a laminar flow, or the fumes that are combusting? The advantage of alcohol is that its fumes are combustible at low pressure. That's why alcohol stoves are simpler than other stoves--there's no need to pressurize the tank like white gas or deal with a pressurized vessel like propane. That also might be why alcohol has those long flames--the decrease in pressure outside the stove doesn't matter.

I'm wondering if the longer flames translate to better heat transfer to the pot and if that compensates of alcohol's lower combustion temp.
_________________________
"Just enough to stay warm, dry, hydrated, and fed."

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#159052 - 12/21/11 02:16 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Jimshaw]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1115
Loc: Madison, AL
large scale eddy's associated with the dancing flame is an indication of more laminar flow. When a flow becomes turbulent the small scale eddy's break up the large scale eddy's making the flow appear more consistent from a visual standpoint.

If I recall correctly Mike Griffin (the previous head of NASA) did his PhD dissertation on the flame around a turbine blade and assumed laminar flow.

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#159059 - 12/21/11 04:04 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: oldranger]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By oldranger
A recently released study states, that if present trends continue, that by the year 2020 87% of internet traffic will deal with the design, construction, and use of alcohol stoves. There will be a desperate shortage of empty pop cans and JB Weld. Alcohol will sell for over 100 dollars a barrel. The new nation of Iowa will dictate energy policy
Haven't the good people of Iowa heard of the anti-stalking laws?

(did I just make a corny joke?)

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159060 - 12/21/11 04:15 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Hikin Jim]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Yes, he said huskily.....

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#159062 - 12/21/11 04:21 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: oldranger]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
And the prize for such puns is a silky new tassle for your stocking caps!

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#159063 - 12/21/11 04:32 PM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Jimshaw]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Jim, now that you've moved to Oregon, you have way too much time on your hands. grin
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#159083 - 12/22/11 01:41 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Jimshaw]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
While I am really not into alcohol stoves, all of these videos make me wonder about the flame mechanics of alcohol stoves vs whitegas stoves and compressed gas stoves. When a flame touches a cold surface it cools and stops or slows combustion leaving unburned components and carbon monoxide. Alcohol stoves seem to have long flames that appear unstructured and sort of wrap around the pot. Anyway I had a friend who did a study of the flames inside a car engine and I was just starting to wonder. However it also seems that a flame can do a laminar flow too, so its a lot more complicated than it seems at first. Just wondering....
Jim grin
OK, at the risk of seeming completely ignorant, exactly what is laminar flow and how does it relate to the flames in a stove?

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159085 - 12/22/11 03:20 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Hikin Jim]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I missed out on physics in high school, but here is an answer-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#159092 - 12/22/11 06:49 AM Re: Alcohol Stoves [Re: Hikin Jim]
PappyBanjo Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 20
Loc: Maryland
Laminar flow is a term in fluid dynamics (gasses are fluids in this sense). It refers to fluids that flow smoothly in a coherent stream, as apposed to turbulent flow.
_________________________
"Just enough to stay warm, dry, hydrated, and fed."

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