I'm starting to get serious about backpacking and trying to figure out what to use as a layer of insulation. In another topic I asked specifically why people like vests; now I'm opening up a more general question: What sort of mid layer should I choose?

How much warmth I generate:

Like most people I generate a lot of heat while I'm moving and have found that on a windy day with temps near freezing I can be reasonably comfortable in just my uninsulated shell and a mid-weight base layer. When I'm not moving, of course, I need more insulation, and I think I run colder than most guys. I actually like cold weather, but I look at it as a matter of being prepared, and for me that usually means pretty warm clothes. The bottom line is that there's a pretty big gap between the insulation I need while stationary and while moving.

Likely backpacking conditions and uses:

I live and do most of my hiking in the mid-Atlantic. Summer tends to have highs in the 80s and 90s (it can get warmer but you probably wouldn't find me hiking on those days) and lows in the 60s and 70s. In winter highs are often in the 40s or 50s and most of the time even the lows don't go too much below freezing. The result is that I'm unlikely to be hiking much in weather where I need more insulation on the move, it's mostly during the down time that I need the warmth.

In the summer, early spring, and late fall I spend most of my time being too hot (except maybe first thing in the morning), but I do figure it's good to carry some insurance against unexpectedly low temps, especially because I find it hard to get an accurate idea of what things will be like in the mountains (at < 5000 ft, you people out west might prefer to call them foot hills). I also use a warm weather sleeping bag which is small and light, but it means it's also not a bad idea to have something else to put on at 4 am if it turns out cooler than expected. In the colder seasons I'd generally want something to put on when stopped that will give me enough extra warmth to be comfortable.

Current gear (or lack there of):

I don't really have enough backpacking experience or knowledge of available gear to know what the optimal solution is. Up until now I've mostly made do with a normal flannel shirt or sweatshirt for extra warmth, but those are pretty heavy and bulky and the cotton material isn't ideal for backpacking. I do have one mid layer I got as a gift, which is a mid-weight fleece pullover (North Face SDS 1/4 zip). That's quite warm and vastly superior to my other options, but it still takes up a not-insignificant amount of space (maybe I'm not compressing it well?) and weighs 14 oz. At least for the warmer months that fleece is overkill and I'd much prefer to have something smaller/lighter if possible.

The question:

The question then is what will serve my purposes without adding too much weight and volume? My current thinking is that in the long term I should get some light compressible puffy insulation layer, probably down, for the colder months. Right now I'm a bit strapped for cash, so I may hold off on that and make do with my mid-weight fleece (although I'm still interested in theoretical suggestions if they're not exorbitant --say < $300). For the warmer months I'm thinking maybe a lightweight fleece pullover (100-weight) if one exists that would be significantly lighter/smaller (I even considered just using a heavy weight base layer). I'm not sure if price limitation is a big barrier here. I think together with my rain shell (which I'd usually have anyway) and a hat that could already offer significant warmth.

I'm open to suggestions along those lines or radically different ones. In looking at things myself on-line I could often find weights for items, but it's really hard to assess the compressibility. As far as cost, I realize that to some degree you will get what you pay for, but occasionally with such things you can actually find pretty effective solutions for a good bargain. I figure that, with more experience and probably much more knowledge of gear, some people here can probably point me in the right directions.

I hike in Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, and Virginia, so the conditions I encounter are not that different from yours.

Mid-spring through mid-fall, I hike in shorts, worn over Smartwool microweight boxers, and a Smartwool T-shirt. (I've also had good luck with Patagonia base layers, and REI's house brand base layers.) If it's early-morning damp or chilly, or if I stop and the wind is blowing chilly, it's usually enough to add a windbreaker - but it comes off when I start hiking again. While hiking, I will sweat.

Late fall through Christmas, and late February through early spring, I'll add Smartwool midweight longjohn bottoms over the boxers and under the shorts, and midweight zippered T-neck base layer shirt over the T-shirt. This keeps me plenty warm on the move, unless it's really windy - then I wear the windbreaker (OR's Vigor) while hiking. In the past, I've used Patagonia items and REI house-brand items here, too.

Christmas through February finds me in the same outfit, except that the windbreaker is almost always worn and there is frequently a down vest under the windbreaker if it's below 25 degrees or so. The vest may get zipped or unzipped, or go on and off, as temperatures, sunshine, wind, and exposure (open field versus in the woods) suggest.

I've never gotten cold; hiking in a fleece or down jacket gets me too warm.

I'd suggest taking the fleece you have until you can get a puffy piece (synthetic or down, depending on your preferences; both work and compress better than fleece.) You might also look at Campmor's house brand base layers and fleece; I haven't worn any of their stuff in years, but when I was still outfitting both my son and me, we used their house-brand polypropylene and fleece exclusively, and it performed well back then. It was also about the least expensive out there.

As does Glenn, I now use merina wool layers instead of fleece. Fleece is very bulky. The merina wool, though pricey, compresses better, has better "stink" resistance, and breathes better. You can sometimes find it on sale or for sale used on this site. While hiking though, I sweat up a storm no matter what the temperature, so then I just hike in a long sleeve synthetic shirt. I have some Smartwool and some Ibecks.

I use fleece as a mid layer, and all mine is no-name cheapo stuff. It is bulky, but comparatively (to sweats) light weight, and I also wear it to bed, so it's dual purpose.

I could pay for at least a week's worth of backpacking for the price of a down vest, so I tend to spend my money on that instead.

So many people have different needs otherwise this would be easy. For myself, I have recently found that the Merino wool T's work really well for me and they are as light or lighter than a cotton t-shirt. I have 2 short sleeve and 2 long sleeve that I use depending upon the expected conditions.

sK

Thanks again to hikerduane for this find

I have found that I can stink up said merino wool in one day of hiking. Maybe I am just a stinky person However, I found out the other day, that Feline odor remover/cleaner also removes sweat smell from merino wool (searched on the internet, just before putting my only short sleeved merino (and therefore expensive) shirt in the hiking only pile.)

Love wool, but have not found it to be any less smell holding.

Glenn: What you say about what to wear on the move sounds quite reasonable, and yes I think a puffy insulated layer would probably be a very useful addition. I took a look at Campmor and I don't see any Campmor-brand fleece or baselayers. Either I'm not looking in the right place or they stopped making those.

OldScout: Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed merino wool would compress better than synthetics.

I apologize for the bad info about Campmor. I hadn't really checked their website in a couple of years; I just went and looked, too, and they must have stopped making them. A second choice would be REI-brand; I also checked their website, and they do offer base layers. (You might also look at their Outlet; there's a tab on the homepage. Sometimes, some good stuff ends up there at a very low price.)

You know, I rarely hear anything good about private label brands, but the REI-brand seems to get a lot of great reviews...I might try one out.

Mountain Hardwear has a really nice fleece layer that weights only 8oz.

Yeah, I have looked at the possibility of snagging a mid- or heavyweight REI baselayer to use as a mid layer for a small bit of extra insulation. From the reviews on the site it seems like the quality of REI house brand is a bit uneven but pretty good on average. I have cruised REI outlet from time to time, which is how I've picked up some of the little equipment I have.

Yeah, as far as fleece mid layers all of the following looked promising:

Mountain Hardware Microchill Zip T (1/2 zip)

The North Face TKA 100 Microvelour Glacier 1/4 zip

Columbia Klamath Range II Half Zip


All weigh about 8 oz. The first two cost $50 or so, while the last looks like it can be had for $25-35. I have no idea how well they may pack down. I might try to hit up some outdoors stores to see if I can play with one in person.

I too have searched for the perfect mid layer, for several reasons. I have a down hooded jacket (WM Flash), but on the move it's to warm. At times invited sitting around a camp fire, I'm paranoid about sparks damaging my expensive gear. I need to wear some kind of base layer to sleep in to keep body oils off my down bag. A hoodie is ideal for this. Sooo.. I think I found the solution. Melanzana micro grid hoodie. $65, 10.77 oz large, or 9.5 oz medium. Kangaroo front pocket, and the hood fits well with a draw cord offset to one side. Free option of shorting the sleeve length. One of the best pieces of gear I've found, and made in USA Leadville CO. Warm with wind shirt or rain jacket over it. Wicks well.

Cabelas Regular Superlite 750 Down vest is on sale for $49. Tall is $59. I bought the tall one last year. It weighs 358g.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Superlight-750-Down-Vest-150-Regular/944922.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Ddown%2Bvest%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=down+vest

Patagonia recently dumped last season's nano-puff pullovers. It's a primaloft filled jacket, weighs about 1/2 pound. Some are still on their website; I bought mine from another vendor. Colors aren't great, but they are better than 1/2 the weight of my milspec fleece liner, and seem to be about as warm. MEC had something similar on the suggested gear list, which is why I'm trying it.

Some vendors:

http://www.campsaver.com/outlet/nano-puff-pullover-men-s

http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/item/215855/N/0?cmpn=979100&sendroicid=218bb936-4a82-4bde-8646-b6af6069fe42&sendroiad=7842759135&sendroikwd=nano+puff+pullover+(Exact)&gclid=CM6Cmd227qoCFcU65Qod2kpSOQ