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#155485 - 10/06/11 09:54 PM Planning a trip. Gear List Help
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
so ive been planning on taking a back country hiking/camping trip it will be 3 days long (Fri, Sat, Most of Sun) in washington state, so temps wont be too crazy just lots of rain always laugh

http://amzn.com/w/ALJYNLQ3LEMW

any tips? am i spending too much on somthing? do i have most of everything? some small stuff and food stuffs will be purchased locally. ive camped before but never anything of this length without packing it all into a car.. lol

weight shouldnt be that much of an issue as im trying to keep it as light as possible tho I am a pretty big guy and do physical labor all day for work.


ANNNNND. boots will be some form of danner waterproof goretex with vibram sole. thinking 5" or 6" boot.

Cheers,
NK


Edited by Nick K. (10/06/11 10:21 PM)

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#155486 - 10/06/11 10:02 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2087
Loc: Napa, CA
It really depends on where you are going, and when. If I were you, I would try to rent or borrow as much equipment as I could---so that I could see which stuff I really liked, and which stuff made me grumpy.

And I wouldn't take a folding shovel on very many trips...

You can see our list on our website. You might want to compare and see how yours stacks up. Bear in mind that weight is at LEAST as important as price. Lighter is definitely the way to go!
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#155487 - 10/06/11 10:16 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: balzaccom]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
money is a big thing. but as my family goes camping all the time i wouldnt mind having a nice set of gear for campground camping lol.. and the trip isnt gona be for a few months so I will have time to spread the money for it out.

also what would the rules be for going in the woods? shovel was cuz i thought i would have to bury my #2. lolalso shovel for assist in making firepit for nights?


and I dont think I ever do anything minimally heh.


im guessing that the trip will not be during the month or two of warm weather we get here. and appart from a few brutally cold nights here and there the weather kinda stays the same for most of the year lol. 50-70 degrees with constant rain.


ALSO @ THE GUY BELOW
ive looked at alot of those lists. was just wanting some feedback if anything looked bad or was a shotty company. or wutnot.


Edited by Nick K. (10/06/11 10:23 PM)

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#155488 - 10/06/11 10:16 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Several good gear lists on the home page of this site, plus lots of tips on gear selection and many other aspects of backpacking.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#155491 - 10/06/11 10:48 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Most of what you've picked out looks pretty good.

I don't think you need two battery chargers.

That's a really big Ka-bar knife, I doubt you'll need two knives.

Probably don't need a zippo lighter. A small Bic would likely do fine.

The folding shovel wouldn't make it into my pack.

Neither would the light sticks.

Check out the Gear List and other info linked on the left side of the page here. That will give you some good ideas. Read the article on "Lightening the Load" too.

Since this is your first multi-day trip, I suggest you take whatever you want. What ever makes you comfortable. When you get back go over your gear again and take a second look at what you didn't use, and of those items look for what you didn't need. Then consider leaving what you didn't use and don't need at home next time.

For example, I have a Two-Way Radio and I carried it a few times after I got it, but I don't carry it anymore. Except for the NOAA weather channels, I never used it. I carry my cell phone instead now. It has good weather apps, and I have a better chance of contacting someone if I need to, and vice/versa.



_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#155492 - 10/06/11 10:52 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: billstephenson]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
hmmm.. there must be somthing wrong with the list.

the knife is big but not retardedly big.(5" blade isnt that big?) there is only one on the list.

only one bruton batterypack and misc batteries for rest. no chargers.

i like zippo. its for my ciggies

shovel is gone.

annnd 2way radio is cuz my first trip will be with 2 or so other people.


Edited by Nick K. (10/06/11 10:57 PM)

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#155499 - 10/07/11 07:38 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
You did ask for feedback - this is where many of us started, getting the idea that what we were planning maybe wasn't as ideal as we thought. I no longer have the first set of gear I started with, for example.

5" is a huge knife, compared to what I carry. I cannot think of a single chore that I would need a 5" blade to do. I also take no batterypack, no zippo, and none of the other gear you have on the list. Does not mean your list is bad, just heavy and not to my personal liking. But I can tell you exactly why I don't carry those things and let you think on that.

Selecting gear from Amazon means you can't try on the things that need to fit - the pack needs to work for you, and the gear you want to take all needs to fit inside and carry well with it. Can't stress how important that fit is.

If this is your first trip with a backpack I will suggest renting, not buying, the major gear. Don't waste money until you know A) you want to keep backpacking and B) you know what you want. (You don't know what you don't know right now. I know this, because before my first adult, self planned outing, I knew less than you.)

I would not buy Alps Mountaineering sleeping bags, either, based on experience, sleeping bags that are cheap are also very heavy and not real warm.

Rent the sleeping bag, pad (something you are missing and will need), stove, pack, and maybe some trekking poles. Pack some synthetic or wool layered clothing. Pack some food. See how it goes.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#155501 - 10/07/11 10:01 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: lori]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Thanks for breaking the ice, Lori; I was trying to figure out a polite way of saying, "You really aren't going to equip yourself from Amazon, are you?!"

In the original post, you don't say where you live; but since it's only 2-3 nights you're planning, I'll assume you live near where you're going, which puts you somewhere in the Northwest. That means there's a good chance there's an outdoor shop near you (perhaps REI, or maybe a local outfitter.) Buy your stuff there. You have to really try hard to buy lesser-quality outdoor gear nowadays, but if you're dead set on getting the heaviest, least useful gear you can find, Amazon would be a good place to start. (Dick's, Gander Mountain, Pro Bass, and WalMart are also places to easily go wrong.) Don't get me wrong; these places also have some good gear, but they have a lot of marginal and unsuitable gear for backpacking.

The outdoor store will carry a better range of gear. Yes, their sleeping bags and packs will cost more than the stuff on Amazon - there's a reason for that: quality. The outdoor store will also have a knowledgeable staff that can quickly tell you what you do and don't need, and how the pieces come together to form a good kit. They'll be able to fit your pack to you, which, as Lori said, is vitally important; they'll also be able to help you pick the proper capacity pack. You'll pay a bit more, but you'll be way ahead in the long run, because you won't be replacing the bag, pad, etc. right away and because good advise from people who know their inventory is worth a little extra money.

One specific comment: while the Katadyn filter is a good one, it's probably overkill for anything you'll be doing. Take a look at the MSR Miniworks. It's cheaper, simpler to use, reliable, reasonably light (but not ultralight) and consistently gets high marks (well, maybe not from SkateboardJoe on Amazon, but definitely from people who've spent some time actually using it in the backcountry.)

Do some research on gear lists here, then print one out and head to a reputable backpacking & camping store.


Edited by Glenn (10/07/11 11:39 AM)
Edit Reason: Refining a thought

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#155502 - 10/07/11 11:18 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Looks like the list has changed since yesterday. I must have misread the description of the rechargeable batteries, but I could swear I saw a charger on the list yesterday too.

Here are the two knives I mentioned:

Victorinox Swiss Army Soldier Knife Standard Issue

Ka-Bar Becker BK2 Campanion Fixed Blade Knife

Zippo's are great lighters. I used to burn my skin a lot with them when I carried one in my pocket and it leaked on me. Of course, I was only about 12 years old then, and made a habit of filling them with way more lighter fluid than they needed wink

_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#155503 - 10/07/11 11:36 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Glenn]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
Weight really does matter no matter how big you are. You may be able to carry a bag of cement from the truck easier than a small person, but it's a whole new game when you are carrying it the equivalent of up and down the Empire State Building. Then your own body weight becomes a disadvantage.

There are 7 or 8 people on the site who drug my choices through the mud all through the summer. Now my pack is under 26 pounds for a 3 night/4 day trip. Down from 43 pounds at the beginning of the summer. It could be a couple pounds lighter, but I decided to keep some things. (Like the pack.)

The best advice was getting a postage scale to weigh everything. The second best thing I did was make a spreadsheet of what I carried and the weights. Mine is below. There are some things I don't bring others consider essential. A knife, compass, toilet paper, sleeping pad. There are other things I could replace with lighter or better choices, but I'm not ready to spend the money yet. A new sleeping bag is likely what I'll buy next, but I'm still debating which one.

Cost is also a factor. $62 seems excessive for a compass unless you are orienteering.

Look at the websites people have in their signature's. Lori's is real good. And so is balzaccom's.

Here is my list. None of it is especially expensive or top of the line. I'd suggest making one for yourself so it gives some direction to your purchases. BTW, I have Danner boots with an 8" top and I love them. It's one place I go completely against the crowd.

_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#155504 - 10/07/11 11:50 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
You didn't say when you would be taking your trip, but, in addition to the good advice you are getting, i would suggest some preliminary day hikes, a sort of sake down test. I guarantee you will learn some interesting things that will save you a lot of grief further dwon the road.

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#155505 - 10/07/11 12:57 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Gershon


The best advice was getting a postage scale to weigh everything. The second best thing I did was make a spreadsheet of what I carried and the weights.


This is the sort of thing you do when you know you want to backpack often, not the sort of thing first timers need to worry about... it's great advice otherwise we wouldn't repeat it so often. But I'll stick with rent or borrow until you know you want to really do this - and then, get gear that is WORTH GETTING.

A really good sleeping bag will last for years and years and be a great investment - for someone who will use it often. I repeated the "cheap sleeping gear" mistake a couple of times until that sunk in. I do not regret a single penny of the $500+ I spent on the quilts and pad and hammock I have now, because I have had them for several years and had zero uncomfortable nights with them. And one of my 20F down quilts weighs 22 oz, is reliably warm for me to the advertised limits, and packs down to about the size of a football. When we are saying a sleeping bag is too heavy and not warm enough - it's probably also going to pack to the size of a bedspread. It is absolutely worth spending bucks on gear that is compact, light and very warm, I am here to say - that stupid synthetic bag I started with was cold, heavy, and filled half the backpack, and was not worth the eighty bucks, no way.


Edited by lori (10/07/11 12:59 PM)
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#155506 - 10/07/11 01:24 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
So, I am guessing that you are planning on getting those specific items? Your local REI (you live in Washinton, so there are a bunch of stores) will actually have cheaper prices. Go there and RENT as much as possible. This would be your pack, tent and bag for sure. Maybe even a stove. Now, lets look at some of your specific items.
The compass.....that compass is a really nice compass. I have a similar Brunton one that I paid $50 for at REI. I love it, but I also know how to use all the features. Do you? If not, then I would look at a much cheaper compass.
The big knife....I sometimes carry a big knife. It has it's uses. But, those uses are few. Do you know what you would use it for? Can you do that type of activity where you are going? Most cutting tasks are better accomplished with a small knife, or better yet, scissors. The SAK looks good, but if you don't know why you would use the big knife, then don't carry it.
The filter is a great filter, but it is bombproof and meant for expeditions. You can probably RENT a filter from REI or buy one of there other options. Most are between $50 and $100, not the $280 that the filter you show goes for.
If you bring a jetboil, then you won't need a separate cup.
I have used Datrex bars before. They serve a purpose. I would look for the mainstay bars that only have 3 bars in the package. It counts for 1 meal. It takes a special type of person to eat those willingly. I would try it before the trip.
You shouldn't need replacement batteries for a three night trip. However, just bring enough extras for one replacement. If your flashlight only holds 3 AAA batteries, then only carry 3 AAA battery spares.
You don't need a full roll of tape. I take a piece of plastic (think credit card size) and wrap a bunch on it.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#155510 - 10/07/11 02:40 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: finallyME]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
You don't need any extra batteries for a 3-night trip. Just put fresh batteries in before you start. For a week-long trip, especially with the short days and long nights we have this time of year, that's a different story!

I do carry one of those tiny Photon microlights, along with whistle and compass, on a cord around my neck, just in case. So far the only times I've used the little microlight were when I couldn't find my regular headlamp in the dark, or when the headlamp came apart and the batteries fell out, but it's good to have a backup for the regular light. The tiny microlight weighs far less than extra batteries!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#155511 - 10/07/11 02:43 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
okayyyyy laugh

im going to just randomly read thru and respond to all of you.

obviously i would be buying the items locally. but i cant share an rei shoping cart with you guys.

knife is big but i will be camping making small fires, digging holes. etcetc. the knife on the multi tool doesnt really count as a knife as i will prob never use the knife on it. i am getting it as a multi tool. also with that knife i wont have to worry about breaking or hurting it in anyway with anything that i could do with it.

water filter im getting that one so down the road i wont have to buy another. i hate hate hate hate hate replacing and upgrading things. waste of time and money. i would rather buy overkill first and never have to deal with upgrading down the road.

again. zippo is becuase i smoke. i like zippos use em all the time in real everyday life so i will be carrying one here.

the compass is a little expencive. that was a recent addition until i can find a cheaper good backup incase gps takes a dumper.

and out of the list the tent and the bag are somthing that i would want to buy not rent as those are the things i will keep the longest.

the whole roll of duct tape will not go. there is a waterbottle on the list that takes 2m of it. and that will work perfect.


and again for all the people asking when, washington doesnt really change weather that much 40-60degress with constant rain 90% of the year. its the northwest nothing really changes much. i prob wont be going during that 10% where it gets really really really cold/hot.

and @ finally me. those Datrex bars are for emergency. I dont plan on eating em willingly. like i said little snacky things and breakfast bars will be added later on the day of.



READ THE NOTES ATTACHED TO EACH ITEM IF IT CONFUSES YOU.





and also. at person who said. how big and strong you are doesnt matter. umm how could it not? a big strong guy could carry more with greater ease? i obviously understand to keep things lite so you dont get all tired and the trip becomes lame. im kinda doing it for the physical/"survival" aspect of it all. so i was kinda expecting a heavy pack.
also on a side note i added up rough weights and without a full 2l of water in hydration pack and it came out to like 32lb. i carry more than that on my daily 4mile bikerides to and from work in my street pack lol.

and if I come off a little abrasive or non listining. i am listining laugh and you guys are helping. ALSO ON A SIDE NOTE. Gadgets make me happy and bring great joy to my life, so some of the items are overpriced but make me happy in some way so if there is no other negitives other than money still comes out to a positive to me.


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 03:02 PM)

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#155515 - 10/07/11 03:28 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1103
Loc: Madison, AL
You don't need to hike in emergency food. It takes a long time to starve... just hike out.

You don't need a huge fixed blade knife to make a fire.

You will probably need some shovel to dig catholes for #2. People probably just didn't like the one you chose. Their is a guy on backpacking light that sells an ultra-lightweight titanium trowel for just this purpose. There are a couple other options at REI.

I don't know any backpacker that uses the katadyn. I think it is quite heavy. Much better and lighter options available (MSR, Sawyer Gravity fed, steripen) they also happen to be cheaper...

Your tent looks like it is designed for snow loading. It probably has a weight to match. You should be able to get a two-person freestanding tent for around 4 lbs. I think there are some Big Agnes's floating around right now that are heavily discounted.

There are lighter, more comfortable non-self inflating pads available.

You don't need a knife, fork, and spoon... especially with re-hydrated meals. Most people either carry a spork or a spoon only.

Sleeping bags need to fit you. You should try it on before buying.

Fit is the most important thing with a backpack... buy it last after you know how much gear you will be bringing.

Put together your own medical kit with only stuff you know how to use.

Few people pack in coffee anymore. Most people use the instant coffee from starbucks. Pretty darn good and much lighter.

I'm not sure why you need a two-way radio.

... and I'll give it one last try... leave the zippo at home and bring a bic.

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#155517 - 10/07/11 04:13 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: BZH]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
emergency food only takes up like 2x4in in pack. so im kinda toying with the idea of removing it.

I like the knife, its not going, and can also dig holes with it.

Filter-
as stated before, i dont want to carry a small cheapo one. and so many look silly becuase they have the threads on the bottom to attach nagene &&& according to reviews i should be able to find it for around 180$ which doesnt make it that bad. also about steripen&chem treatment, not doing anything that doesnt filter the water as i dont want psudo "clean" water that has tons of junk in its trunk.

the tent i wana say has a trail weight of 5lb. so its light enough.

mattress-
self inflating is becuase I kinda wana keep it all inside of the pack and not have little bits and pieces strapped all over the outside of the pack

Silverware has info in the note explaining. i dont want to use a spork. and i dont care about the added 10$ cost and the .5oz of added weight.

i know how to use all the stuff in that medical kit. and im pretty sure anyone who is competent enough to go hiking would know how to use it all.

coffee-
I dont like instant. i drink tons of coffee daily and will not budge on this. instant is so lame, if im not gona drink it in real life, im not going to drink it on the trail.

haha laugh zippo is stayin. i dont know why so many people dislike for camping lol.

thanks for your words wink and hope my responce makes sense.


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 04:54 PM)

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#155520 - 10/07/11 04:55 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
This is a lightweight backpacking site, so expect considerable criticism of your heavy gear, much of which was designed for occasional car camping rather than backpacking.

Carrying a heavy pack, in the long run, causes considerable damage to knees and feet. It causes fatigue, which leads to misjudgments and accidents. A heavy pack makes it easier to get off balance and fall. It also reduces the distance you can travel. This is one reason we're concerned about your pack weight.

Our other concern is that after a small amount of experience you are going to be extremely dissatisfied with a lot of the heavy, shoddy gear you have listed, and you'll end up spending a lot more money to replace it than if you shop around more carefully at the start.

Please read the articles several of us have linked to on the home page of this site before you purchase any more. Also get an idea of what variety of gear is available from the firms listed in the left hand column of this page.

Of course if you don't want to take any of our advice, that's fine, but why, then, did you ask? There are many, many years of backpacking experience represented on this site. Many of us started out with the kind of gear on your "wish list" and very soon discarded it for something lighter and better. We'd really like to help you not to make the same mistakes!


Edited by OregonMouse (10/07/11 04:59 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#155521 - 10/07/11 05:01 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Nick, you don't have to justify bringing anything. It is all your own choice what you bring. Personally, I could care less what you carry, since I am not carrying any of it. Remember, you asked for our opinions on your list. You are a brave man for posting your list in the first place. I don't think I would ever post my list. Not only am I too chicken, but it doesn't matter to me what others think of it. But, it is nice for a beginner to have others look at your list and make you think about it. I have taken many beginners, and usually after the trip they are ready to hear my opinions on what they should and should not take. Basically, don't worry if every one tells you to leave the zippo and bring a bic. You don't have to defend the zippo choice, just remember that most think a bic is a better option. I carry a bic (by the way) and I don't even smoke.

I have carried emergency food before. Like I said, I usually carry the small mainstay bars. They are about a third of a datrex brick. Something to think about.

If you want to buy your pack, then do it. Many of us recommend to rent first for a bunch of reasons. If you rent, you can easily find out what you want in a pack, like size and features. This way, when you do buy, you have a much better idea of what to look for. It is also cheaper in the short term, and helps you assess how much you really like this activity. If you do buy your pack, I guarantee that you will buy another one (if you continue backpacking). The same goes for tent and sleeping bag. 5lbs is pretty heavy for a tent, unless you split the weight between 3 people.
And, remind me to never, ever, ever lend you my knife. Kinves are not shovels, especially expensive knives. However, you could probably borrow Jim Shaw's. He likes his knives dull. smile You will use the blade on your multitool more than your BK2, especially if you dig with your big knife.
I bring an aluminum snow stake for a pooh shovel. Many here don't bring anything and just use a stick. Something to think about.
If all your food is mountain house, make sure and count how many times you use your fork or butter knife.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#155522 - 10/07/11 05:09 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: finallyME]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
And just exactly what's wrong with buying new gear all the time? (Hi, I'm Glenn, and I'm a recovering gearaholic. My sponsor owns the local backpacking store, so you can guess how my 12-step program is going. smile )

Think of it as your own personal Economic Recovery Act - we don't need no stinkin' politicians!

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#155523 - 10/07/11 05:21 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: finallyME]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
hehe read the reviews for that knife. 1/4in blade compainion miltary knife.

people talk about using to dig and doing all sorts of wild stuff with em on the regular, thats kinda why im getting such a beefy knife. knifes are used for so much more than cutting. especally a knife like this.

hehe i will keep track of how i dont use the butter knife at all smile but you cant buy titanium spoon and fork alone so i just get the kit.

hehe i shoulda read the title of the website before posting my list smile im not going minimalist. Im pretty sure that i could do 15-20mile hike trip with a sack that is less than 50lb.

you guys talk about 20lb like its retardedly heavy. i have more than 20lb in my backpack everyday for my bikeride to work lol..

and when justifying im just trying to make sure you understand my purpose of having it on the list. its not just "well that looks fun." almost all the items have at least 2 uses for camping. i think im doing pretty good lol. considering that when my dad goes camping with 3 people he brings a full 15'/5' trailer + full truck bed for 2 day camping trip LOL.

i think having everything and the kitchen sink runs in the family.

and just to restate. when i added up weights of everything before i started cutting a few things out the total weight of the bag loaded was close to 35lb. which comes out to around 15% of my body weight. where is a forum for people that want to sweat while hiking? lol

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#155524 - 10/07/11 05:44 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
[quote=Nick K.

and just to restate. when i added up weights of everything before i started cutting a few things out the total weight of the bag loaded was close to 35lb. which comes out to around 15% of my body weight. where is a forum for people that want to sweat while hiking? lol [/quote]

Come back after you carry the 35 lb pack every weekend for a few months and let us know how much it matters what the pack weighs!

Every single pound matters to me. But I've been backpacking for a few years longer than you have. Maybe you can carry 80 lbs - so what? Why do you want to carry a heavy pack when you can be more comfortable with less?

You can of course carry anything you like. But you came and asked a bunch of people who have done exactly what you're doing - sorry the answer you've gotten doesn't make much sense to you. Wait ten years and a few long backpacking trips and it will!
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http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#155525 - 10/07/11 06:27 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: lori]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
lori
no disrespect wink
i understand your guys side dispite always having a comeback smile

im just trying to get a nice ballance of weight and creature comforts.

and on another note. i just dont understand how you guys can say that no matter how big or strong or fit a person is it has no relivance to how heavy or light a pack could be.

and at your comfort remark, comfort is all relitive. do i pack light and not be as comfortable when camping? or pack a med/heavy ruck and get a nice ballance of both?

its all a balancing act. wink


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 06:44 PM)

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#155526 - 10/07/11 06:29 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
When we are talking weights, we are generally talking before food/water/fuel. 35 lbs is really good. I will put money that your pack ends up being more than 50 lbs though. If you fill up the 2 liter bladder, then add another 4.4 lbs of water weight. Fill up your stainless water bottle and then add another 2 lbs. If you are really good at food choice, then add 1.5 lbs a day. I bet you end up around 2 lbs a day, mostly because you probably need more calories than the average person. You don't have all your clothes on that list, only what you are wearing. You still need rain protection and insulation. So basically what I am saying is that that isn't your full list. Put a full list together and then see where you are weight wise.

Hey, in my youth I did many 50-60lb week long trips covering around 50 miles. It was fun and I didn't notice the weight at all. Now I am older and think differently. Don't worry if you are in the 60 lb range. You will be able to do it. If you stay with this activity long term though, I guarantee that you will be changing everything. I did the same.
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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#155528 - 10/07/11 06:38 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: finallyME]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
@hydration pack weight, i wont keep it full i will get water when needed. not that it matters THAT much. but still.your right about stainless bottle.

jacket will be purchased later (thinkin northface triclimate or columbia equivilant). will carry 2 pairs of pants one pair for most if not all of the weekend and one pair backup justincase. i will trade out underarmour everyday.

also for people a little about me, im 6' 220lb and 24. i dont drive, i commute on a bike everyday for the last 4 years, and i work a very physical job.

"Hey, in my youth I did many 50-60lb week long trips covering around 50 miles. It was fun and I didn't notice the weight at all. Now I am older and think differently."
thanks for saying it can be done if wanted wink i realize it might be a pita but also it could be fine. plus I dont plan on getting old any time soon wink LOL

"I guarantee that you will be changing everything. I did the same."
what hobby does a person not upgrade and change everything when transition from novus to "expert"? laugh


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 07:27 PM)

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#155530 - 10/07/11 08:01 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I think you will have a great time. When I was a senior in high school, I took off for a 2 nighter with some buddies. I lived in Everett, so we headed to Mt Baker NF. We had way too much clothes (and the wrong type), low tech equipment, etc. We ended up getting lost and using a day to dry out. I had a lot of fun and learned a lot.

Make sure to take lots of pics and tell us about it.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#155532 - 10/07/11 08:30 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
As a Danner boot user... for your own sake, if you are buying new, break them in. Reviews that say it takes 40 miles of walking to break them in are not joking (or, at least, my feet weren't laughing...)

Have fun. Enjoy the trip.

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#155534 - 10/07/11 08:40 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Steadman]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
yep.
i own danner quarry alloy toe and wear them 8-9hours a day. they are what made me decide if i was to ever buy outdoor/leather shoe it will be from them. these boots are more comfy than my street shoes.

i <3 danner so much and the factory store is so close, wish me luck in finding a nice pair of boot for real cheap


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 08:46 PM)

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#155539 - 10/07/11 09:40 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
anyone know a good area for just going off trails? i wana just goo and make my own trail.

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Trails-Maps-...7765&sr=1-1

smile

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#155540 - 10/07/11 10:03 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
New Updates.
Jacket
Boots
ETC.

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#155542 - 10/07/11 10:05 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
Nick,

I have these Danner boots. They are one of the two top choices of soldiers going to Afghanistan and last a long time.

They are more comfortable than my light weight shoes. They are waterproof, at least until it comes over the top. I can just walk right through small streams.

They didn't need breaking in at all.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#155543 - 10/07/11 10:24 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
i do like those, but the ones with the vibram sole. as i would want the ability to get them resoled. as danner is local i can get it done fast and pretty cheap.

like so
http://www.amazon.com/Danner-Mens-Marine-Temperate-Military/dp/B002OSY39A/ref=pd_sbs_shoe7

but alas im looking for a shoe i can wear on the street aswell. and superhightops arent fun.


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 10:27 PM)

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#155544 - 10/07/11 10:35 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
I got mine at clothing supply at an Army Post. I'm retired Air Force so I can go there.

Before buying boots, I talked to a lot of guys about what their best pick was for Afghanistan. One guy said he had a single pair last his entire tour (which is usually 15 months) with a 20 mile rucksack hike each day. That sounds impossible, but he wasn't the only one who said they got a lot of wear.

I found the old black combat boots to be uncomfortable around the tops with extended wear. I'm not finding that to be the case with these boots.

Your choice looks similar to mine. I would have preferred a pair that was resoleable, but they didn't have any.

Oh, they are also very good for doubletiming. Not so good for going faster than that.
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#155545 - 10/07/11 10:45 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
This has been an interesting and lively thread. Reminds me of one of my father's favorite wry sayings - "My mind is made up - don't confuse me with facts."

We all make deeply personal choices in selecting our priorities and our gear. Enjoy your trip! That is what counts in the end.

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#155547 - 10/07/11 11:58 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
38lb Dry weight now.
i guess im missing some stuff.. like snacks and such aswell.


seems like bout 45lb will be final weight.ish.

one note where whold i get a topographic map? or book? what should i use? get a map for the place im going or get a big one?


Edited by Nick K. (10/08/11 12:28 AM)

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#155548 - 10/08/11 06:41 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
You are missing rain gear, too. You won't want to get cheap stuff as it rains there a lot and you will be going off the trails.

For maps, I'd suggest Topo Explorer. The online version will allow you to just download the area you need. It sounds a little expensive, but it's cheaper than buying maps.

For food, you will need about 3,000 calories a day. A Mountain House meal is about 500 calories. Figure about 1.5 pounds a day for dehydrated food, nuts, granola bars, etc. Then an additional 20% for packaging unless you repackage in smaller bags. Many carry less for weekend trips as they don't feel hungry.

When you add food and water, I think you will find you are closer to 50 pounds. Maybe more as your extra clothes will weigh more than the spec weight since you are bigger.

You are also missing little things like a tiny towel, toothpaste and a toothbrush, fuel for the stove, toilet paper if you plan to bring any, lighter fluid for the Zippo, tent stakes, bear bag, hammerfor, fleece/jacket, long john tops, trash bag.

I don't think anyone is saying carrying a 50 pound pack is impossible. But it will be uncomfortable. And it will slow you down a lot. I met a woman thru-hiking the Colorado Trail this year whose pack was in the mid-40's. But she has been hiking a long time. It did slow her down some, but she made informed choices about weight vs. things she wanted.

I think everyone here would disagree with wearing heavy boots but me. It's just come down to a preference for me. Besides, I like the way they feel.

Try not to get defensive about your choices. People have been helping me all summer. I constantly have to remind myself to not think "You're wrong" and to say "Why are they right?"

I consider everyone's choices and balance mine with money, personal preference, and waiting until I decide which particular item to buy. I know I'll get a good down bag eventually, but in my case I have to buy a second one for my son. So that's an extra $1,000 which for now is out of reach. I know I'll probably buy down fleeces eventually, but that's another $350 or so. I also use a different setup for a hammock which people disagree with. But it works for me as I sleep very warm and I'm too sour for bugs to bite me.

A lot depends on whether you want to have fun in camp or hike long distances. I'm very simplistic in camp. I don't mind just sitting on a log for a few hours and then going to sleep as soon as it gets dark.

There are a lot of experienced people here who have helped me a lot this summer. If you go back and read their old posts, you will find some have hiked the long trails, some camp in the winter, one is in search and rescue and hikes an amazing number of miles, some have hiked in the exotic foreign countries. If we had a convention and opened our packs, everyone would have something different. (Might be fun for the Colorado group.)

The common thread I see here and on the trail is keeping the pack weight down. That allows us to get the miles up. Is it just a fad? Or is it something that happens naturally? Probably some of both. In a Canadian board I lurk on, they are more into the heavier weights and emphasizing the camping experience.

In one of your posts the word "survival" caught my eye. Are you planning a bugout bag for when times get tough and planning to live in the woods? If so, reducing non-essentials is critical so you can carry more food. Trapping only works well in the survival books. When I was in survival school in the Air Force, I found bugs are a lot more plentiful and easier to catch. There is a meal under almost every rock.





Edited by Gershon (10/08/11 07:57 AM)
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#155551 - 10/08/11 10:10 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
A good map is one of he most critical pieces of gear you carry. Ideally, you will have a 24:000 scale map, or maps, covering your entire hiking route. A compass is nearly useless without a map, which is even more critical than a Big Knife.

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#155552 - 10/08/11 11:40 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2087
Loc: Napa, CA
A couple of notes on the post by Gershon:

Most freeze dried meals for two people have between 500 and 800 calories, total. If you are one person, and eat a two-man meal, that's important to remember.

And if you want free maps, check out Acmemapper.com You can print just about anything you need there, in the scale you want it, for free.

And now a word about philosophy. Some people want to prove that they can carry anything, and heft a huge pack. Some people like to fantasize about Man v. Wild and the true wilderness experience. OK fine. Some people also buy the biggest truck, the biggest house, the biggest RV.

Most people on these boards spend a lot more time in the mountains, which is why we favor light weight. If you want really play the survival game, figure what you can do without, not what you need to bring.

Those survival shows are a joke, by the way. More stupid decisions and bad ideas in one show that I have seen in a week on the trail.

Think small, think light, think smart.
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#155553 - 10/08/11 11:41 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: oldranger]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Go to REI and buy your map their. Look for either the USGS 1:24000 or a National Geographic of the same area. The third choice is to just buy whatever map they have of the area you are looking at. REI also has lots of different compasses to look at.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#155555 - 10/08/11 12:35 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: finallyME]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
thanks im gona make it over to rei soon, its just all the shops are in portland and i dont drive so it will take me a min to get over there so i like looking online so i can finish everything in one trip lol but thats impossible wink

and the pro packs only have 1 serving, i realize i will need more food. having a rain proof multi layer jacket isnt enough?


and @ gershon, i could prob do a scosh less than 3000cal.
in a normal day i prob do less than 1500 and im pretty active. i would be so full all the time lol..

"You are also missing little things like a tiny towel, toothpaste and a toothbrush, fuel for the stove, toilet paper if you plan to bring any, lighter fluid for the Zippo, tent stakes, bear bag, hammerfor, fleece/jacket, long john tops, trash bag."
weight missing. im gona add those after. jacket has fleece zip out. lighterfluid is a givin. im bringing wipes, stakes come with the tent? underarmor heatgear top is longjohn fuel comes with the stove? i can do 3 days on one can?

and @ everyone about "survivaling"
i just want to go out away from people and trails, that was my meaning. i find the idea of hiking a "pathway" to be quite lame. poor choice of words on my part.


Edited by Nick K. (10/08/11 01:21 PM)

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#155562 - 10/08/11 04:26 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I've been sorting out my gear for the past couple weeks to get ready for this hiking season (starts here right about now) and last night I got most everything I'll need for a four night trip with lows in the 30šs and I'm weighing in at about 32lbs, probably add another 3lbs before I actually make it out the door.

Your pack will be weighing 45lbs. That's a lot for 3 nights. There is a big difference between carrying 45lbs and 35lbs and it gets bigger the longer you carry it. Ironically, that's how much I was carrying for three nights when I first arrived here.

This year I've taken a slightly different approach to lightening my load. It's weird, but while going through my gear and reworking my pack I've found that for me 25lbs "Feels" light when I pick it up and comfortable when pack it around. 32lbs "Feels" heavy.

So I'm working on getting a two night trip down to 25-27 lbs. I think that might be the "Sweet Spot" for me right now with the gear I have. So my first few trips out will be two nighters. After that, I'll work on extending that same load to get another night out of it.

Just for grins, check out this Rapala 4 inch fillet knife. It's fairly light (32 grams), very sharp, inexpensive, and durable. I don't think it'd be good for digging holes, but it's what I'll be carrying this year:




_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#155574 - 10/09/11 09:48 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: billstephenson]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
If I were to go to REI for a complete setup, I'd do my homework first. Otherwise you end up with what they have in stock or some things that aren't suitable for you like tents that are too short.

Using tents as an example, you can narrow the choices down to a single person tent and then sort by reviews. I've found that in sum the reviews are pretty good. If a lot of people say the tent is too short, it's likely too short.

Then I'd make a list on a spreadsheet of the tents, price, weight, reviews and comments for significant pros and cons.

When I enter my criteria for backpacks, I come up with only one choice. The Osprey Kestral 38. And it's only $139. This isn't a recommendation. I'd have to look at it first. Your choice might be the 48 liter pack.

Be sure to get an REI membership for $20 for life. It allows you to return things for life just because you don't like them, and you don't have to save the receipts. Also, you will get notified of garage sales where they sell returned items for greatly reduced prices.

Do the same type of things for everything you will take with you and you will end up with a decent setup. Then,when you go to the store, the salesperson won't have to guess at what you want. They may be able to suggest alternatives that are just as good and cheaper.

Be sure to have them show you how to set up the tent and adjust the backpack. It's important to test the tent with a sleeping bag and a "pillow" made of rolled up extra clothes to see if it's long enough. Many are made for people under 6 feet.







_________________________
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#155577 - 10/09/11 02:05 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I would second getting an REI memership. Back when I joined, it was only $2, but joining REI was one of my better decision. The main advantage, s far as I am concerned is that you get about a ten per cent dividend on most of your purchases (items on sale are not eligible). The dividend can be redeemed for merchandise, or legend has it, for cash (something I have never done).

Short of the exotic cottage manufacturers, you can get just about anything you need at REI.

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#155579 - 10/09/11 04:00 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: oldranger]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6760
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
You also get a 20% off on one regular price item about 3 times per year. There is one on right now, good for the rest of this week.

However, most of my gear comes from the small "cottage" manufacturers who make truly innovative gear and sell it on the internet rather than in stores.


Edited by OregonMouse (10/09/11 04:02 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#155584 - 10/09/11 07:39 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Nick K.


and at your comfort remark, comfort is all relitive. do i pack light and not be as comfortable when camping? or pack a med/heavy ruck and get a nice ballance of both?

its all a balancing act. wink


We diverge when you say "creature comforts are heavy."

I take creature comforts and never have a heavy pack. I sleep well and warm, all night, where I did not with heavier gear. 25 lbs for three days, through rain and sometimes light snow. I'm not cold, wet or at all uncomfortable - you don't get me out if it's going to be a death march.

You did ask a lightweight backpacking board if your gear was okay. In the context of the board? It's pretty heavy, and some of it has limited use, but it's an okay place to start. From my perspective, knowing what I do about comfort in the wilds, it's not really necessary. You can easily read some reviews, do a little research, shop sales, and get lighter gear that will work as well or better than the heavy stuff. The weight of the pack has a huge impact on how you feel at the end of the day - I've learned that the hard way. So have a number of first timers who show up to backpacking outings with my hiking group.

I leave you with Mark Verber's backpacking for cheap. Mark's other pages feature a lot of information and links to more information than you could possibly need or want. Some great info from a guy who went from traditionally heavy to ultralight, and then back to lightweight - balancing those creature comforts with comfort on the trail.

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#155586 - 10/09/11 08:04 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I second the Kestrel packs. I started with a 58, which held my summer load with some room to spare and my winter load comfortably. As I replaced a tent and a couple other things that shrunk the bulk, the 58 was way too big. Now, I can fit everything into the Kestrel 48 with room to spare, and enough room for my winter load.

Great pack - not the lightest, but a sturdy suspension, just enough features (actually, one too many: I don't use the sleeping bag compartment access), fully adjustable torso, and a very comfortable ride.

I ended up getting a 28 for dayhiking.

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#155587 - 10/09/11 08:10 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: lori]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Well said, Lori. I take what I need - cold, wet, hungry, or uncomfortable sleep are not acceptable techniques for lightening your load.

The definition of luxury and necessity can change over time. 20 years ago, a chair kit was a luxury, for the trailhead night before the hike started. Nowadays, it's a necessity - resting my back while sitting in camp lets me sleep better which means I function better on the trail the next day. It's well worth the 6 ounces I carry.

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#155594 - 10/09/11 11:06 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
Gershon

Ok, how'd you put your gear list in there like that? I want to copy what you did so that I can toss mine up and let people look at the excell document table and not go blind.

Sincerely

Steadman


Edited by Steadman (10/09/11 11:07 PM)

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#155599 - 10/10/11 09:31 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Steadman]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
I opened Paint and Excel. Highlighted the section I wanted to copy. Hit Control C. Then went to Paint and hit Control P and saved the picture. Then I put it on a blog I have for saving pictures. You could use Flicker. Then I got the link for the picture and inserted the picture by clicking on the picture icon and pasting the link in.

If you wanted, you could just put it in Google.docs and put a link to that.
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