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#154038 - 08/26/11 12:27 PM Backcountry Camping with Family
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Hello All,

I'm looking forward to planning this season's camping trips. I've done a fair amount of car camping and started backcountry camping with two of my kids last season. We fit in a Kelty Mesa two person tent (4 lbs), two sleeping pads, 3 compact sleeping bags.

A lot of the other gear we used was borrowed from the car camping totes. I'm looking to replace some of that with lighter gear this season: stove, pots, mugs, plates, fuel etc. Right now I am carrying most of the weight and I've realized that lighter is definitely better!

This season I might be taking 3 kids and my wife has also expressed an interest in coming along which would make six of us including the baby. So, I need to get some more gear. smile

I want to try and buy quality items which will last.

I'm thinking of having three two-person tents to distribute the load and give more options when the kids are older. But maybe a three-person tent would give more space. Extra pads and bags are a must. But I'm stumped on the cooking and kitchen. Will a small Pocket Rocket be enough? I also like the look of the GigaPower. Even if we have to eventually get two I think that beats carrying propane and a single big burner.

I've looked at the cooksets from GSI and MSR. I think all we really need is a medium sized pot, a fry pan, handles and then cups and plates for six. I like the look of the deep dish MSR plates. How are the cups? Is there a better option that stacks?

I'd be happy to hear any more input and advice on what else a large family would need for backcountry camping.

Thanks!
Andrew




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#154040 - 08/26/11 01:41 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: FamilyCampingDad]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I've often go out with my son's family, usually 4 to 6 of us.

For meals, I dehydrate foods in advance, so all I need to do for cooking is boil water, add it to the food and let it sit in a cozy 10-15 minutes. You can achieve the same results with supermarket ingredients. Check out trailcooking.com, "Sarbar's" website. I need only one stove (in my case, Primus Micron canister stove, but an alcohol stove would work as well).

For cooking/eating I take one 2-liter kettle, a spoon and a cup per person. Instead of bowls I use 2-cup Ziploc bowls and cut the rims off. Weight is 0.6 oz. each instead of the 1.5 oz. of a GSI plastic bowl. I take a frying pan only if I'm fishing.

For tents, we use the Tarptent Rainshadow 2, a 3-person tent, the Tarptent Squall 2, a two person tent. I (Granny) sleep in my own solo tent. Of course we could use two Rainshadows instead! Tarptents are economical, roomier and much lighter than the standard double-wall tent. These are fully enclosed tents with floor and netting. If none of you use trekking poles, you can get poles from Tarptent to hold them up.

Have you checked out the articles on the home page of this site, left hand column? There is lots of advice there on lightening your load. There's also a good article there on hiking with kids by Penny S. that will be especially helpful in coping with the baby.

There is also a forum section here devoted to backpacking with kids. Page on down below the Photography section.

_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#154047 - 08/26/11 07:14 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: OregonMouse]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I think you have a good plan of using multiple tents. Try to keep the weight down, depending on how old the kids are and how much they can tote. It will also depend on where you are and what kind of weather you expect to encounter.

You might consider one bombproof three person shelter and two lighter ones. My reasoning: if everything goes to H***, the big shelter will hold all of you in a pinch while you wait for it to blow over. A freestanding 3 person tent could serve as the main one, while two Tarptents or similar for the small ones. Look at the sponsors' websites (links to the left) for examples.

Cooking. I solo camp and have a Primus Micron, like OM has, but I also have several liquid fuel stoves. For a group of people, I think a liquid fuel stove would be better or maybe a JetBoil with the big pot on it (I'm not that keen on the JetBoil, but for a group it should work fine). I use a liquid fuel stove in winter and carry my Micron as a spare. You could go old school and use something like a Svea 123 white gas stove and Sigg Tourist kit, if you can find one.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#154051 - 08/26/11 08:50 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: OregonMouse]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
I've often go out with my son's family, usually 4 to 6 of us.

For meals, I dehydrate foods in advance, so all I need to do for cooking is boil water, add it to the food and let it sit in a cozy 10-15 minutes. You can achieve the same results with supermarket ingredients. Check out trailcooking.com, "Sarbar's" website. I need only one stove (in my case, Primus Micron canister stove, but an alcohol stove would work as well).

For cooking/eating I take one 2-liter kettle, a spoon and a cup per person. Instead of bowls I use 2-cup Ziploc bowls and cut the rims off. Weight is 0.6 oz. each instead of the 1.5 oz. of a GSI plastic bowl. I take a frying pan only if I'm fishing.

For tents, we use the Tarptent Rainshadow 2, a 3-person tent, the Tarptent Squall 2, a two person tent. I (Granny) sleep in my own solo tent. Of course we could use two Rainshadows instead! Tarptents are economical, roomier and much lighter than the standard double-wall tent. These are fully enclosed tents with floor and netting. If none of you use trekking poles, you can get poles from Tarptent to hold them up.

Have you checked out the articles on the home page of this site, left hand column? There is lots of advice there on lightening your load. There's also a good article there on hiking with kids by Penny S. that will be especially helpful in coping with the baby.

There is also a forum section here devoted to backpacking with kids. Page on down below the Photography section.



Thanks, OregonMouse!

I've been looking at the pre-made dehydrated food for myself. I know my wife likes things fresh so I will ask her to look at some of the suggestions you mentioned. Probably a lot cheaper as well. That is a good idea on the ziplocs - thanks!

I'll take a look at the Tarptents. Everything I own is double-walled but we are usually camping in the winter (dry season).

I have read quite a lot of the information here. It is really handy. At this stage I'm not looking to shave off every last tenth of an ounce as we are usually only gone one or two nights. But I can see how this kind of thing could become addictive! I'm already looking at some of the stuff I hiked with last season and all I can say is: "What was I thinking?" smile

Andrew

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#154053 - 08/26/11 08:56 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: TomD]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By TomD
I think you have a good plan of using multiple tents. Try to keep the weight down, depending on how old the kids are and how much they can tote. It will also depend on where you are and what kind of weather you expect to encounter.

You might consider one bombproof three person shelter and two lighter ones. My reasoning: if everything goes to H***, the big shelter will hold all of you in a pinch while you wait for it to blow over. A freestanding 3 person tent could serve as the main one, while two Tarptents or similar for the small ones. Look at the sponsors' websites (links to the left) for examples.

Cooking. I solo camp and have a Primus Micron, like OM has, but I also have several liquid fuel stoves. For a group of people, I think a liquid fuel stove would be better or maybe a JetBoil with the big pot on it (I'm not that keen on the JetBoil, but for a group it should work fine). I use a liquid fuel stove in winter and carry my Micron as a spare. You could go old school and use something like a Svea 123 white gas stove and Sigg Tourist kit, if you can find one.


Hi, Tom!

I figure with smaller multiple tents, cooking gear etc. it can be used just by myself, with one kid or the whole pack if needed. Kids ages are 9, 7, 5 and 2 months. The older three have all been with me in pairs and carried 10-15% of their body weight. And they loved it! They really felt part of it by having carried a light sleeping bag, bottle of water and a pad. For now we stay local on the backcountry camping which is central Florida. I prefer to camp October-April when it is cooler and usually dry.

The older two have said they would camp together in a two-person tent but once the hogs and racoons come out it might be a whole other story!

I'll look into the stoves you mentioned.

Thanks!
Andrew

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#154054 - 08/26/11 09:18 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: FamilyCampingDad]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Wow - I just took a look at those Tarptents and they look awesome! Really light and roomy. I've been planning on buying some walking poles and that is such a clever idea to use them as the supports for the tent. Due to insects we would need an enclosed tent and I see some of them do have netting. It would make a great way to see what is moving around in the brush at night as well.

Thanks for the suggestion!
Andrew

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#154055 - 08/26/11 10:26 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: FamilyCampingDad]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
All Tarptent models are now fully enclosed, with netting and floor. They used to make floorless models, but not recently.

I'm in love with them! As mentioned earlier, I have three! Well, technically my solo (plus large dog) tent (Squall Classic) was made by Gossamer Gear, but it was designed by Henry Shires of Tarptent and has the labels of both firms. (Past tense used because the tent has been discontinued.) They appear to have more ventilation (which means less condensation) than most other single wall tents.


Edited by OregonMouse (08/26/11 10:30 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#154394 - 09/07/11 12:36 AM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: OregonMouse]
Cesar Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 217
Loc: El Paso, TX
On our family trips I take a gsi dualist and a haulite kettle. We usually cook in the dualist and boil water in the kettle for hotdrinks. I know its not the lightest option out there but it works for us. Also since we usually just do over nighters I take a trangia alcohol stove since it can simmer and a supercat stove to boil waterwater in the kettle.

Ill have to look into those bowls. Im sure they are a lot lighter then the gsi nesting bowls/mugs. What mugs do you take?
_________________________
My gear is no where near lightweight

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#154425 - 09/07/11 04:38 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: FamilyCampingDad]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
Andrew

I'm taking my two older ones (6 and 8) with me and am dealing with many of the issues you're facing.

I'm working on lightening my kitchen - your interm and final solutions are of great interest to me.

I've found that margerine dishes work well for plates/bowls, as do the ziplock disposable bowls - and they stack well. GSI has a nice set of stackable hot/cold plastic cups with handles: http://www.backcountry.com/gsi-outdoors-infinity-stacking-cup that I bought for the car camping kit, and won't give up in the backpack.

I chose a MSR Dragonfly stove for stability, but fight with the weight cost, and question if I'd be better off with a pair of alcohol stoves, or a Pocketrocket (or similar iso butane stove) with a pot support to accomodate a larger (2 or 4 liter) pot. My kids like Kraft mac and cheese, and I don't think the "just boil water" approach is going to work for family trips for some time - at least not for us.

My converted from car camping pot set has frying pan lids. I see the value, but question the cost in weight. A seperate frying pan, to be brought when the menu warrants, seems more reasonable now. My kids like dry cereal better than pancakes for breakfast.

On OregonMouse's recommendation, I bought a TarpTent Rainshadow 2 tent and like it. I have not used it in a downpour yet, however. Given your kid's ages, two of these might solve your problem at a cost of 5lbs, and allow you to keep the older three kids together and the baby with you and your wife...

I've liked the Mountain Hardware Lamina series of bags for spring/summer/fall use. Depending on your lows in Florida, a Lamina 45 might be all you need, they are on the lighter side, and have been available at a cheap price. If you have the money, there are many nicer suggestions for bags in the threads here on the site - I'm just not yet willing to pay Western Mountaineering's prices for a bag to give to a child.

Sincerely

Steadman

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#154426 - 09/07/11 04:50 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Steadman]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
If you're leaning toward the Pocket Rocket, you might want to wait until January or February. According to the press release on their website (http://media.cascadedesigns.com/pdf/MSR%202012%20Stoves%20Release%20NA.pdf) they are releasing an updated version of the Pocket Rocket that is more compact (so perhaps not as tall or tippy?) and has beefier pot supports (for those larger family-size pots?), and it will be available around January. They didn't say what the price would be; depending on that, you might be able to get a Pocket Rocket and one of their "universal" canister stands for less money and accomplish the same thing. (Their stand is really nice, well thought out and easy to use.)

Another alternative is the MSR Superfly - four really strong supports, and a spreader burner head that works better with larger pots. I've had a Pocket Rocket for years, using it with my Titan kettle for a solo cookset; the PR's concentrated flame pattern is sized proportional to the Kettle's small bottom. I use the Titan 2-pot set when I'm sharing gear with a group, and the PR's flame is too concentrated for even hearting - but the Superfly's spreader flame is just the right size. I've philandered on my Pocket Rocket with a Snow Peak Giga and a Jetboil, but I keep going back to the PR as my go-to stove - a great balance of light weight, simplicity, reliability, and sturdiness.

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#154428 - 09/07/11 05:08 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Steadman]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Macaroni and cheese does fine with freezer bag rehydration!

Cook and dehydrate the macaroni ahead of time. The cheese sauce is powdered anyway; just add some dried milk.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#154441 - 09/07/11 08:27 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: OregonMouse]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
Ah, yes, but then I need to acquire a food dehydrator. Until I see one at a yard sale, that isn't happening.

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#154442 - 09/07/11 09:01 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Steadman]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Steadman
Ah, yes, but then I need to acquire a food dehydrator. Until I see one at a yard sale, that isn't happening.


Or use your oven.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#154456 - 09/08/11 04:18 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Steadman]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I bought my dehydrator for $30 at walmart.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#154660 - 09/14/11 08:30 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Steadman]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By Steadman
Andrew

I'm taking my two older ones (6 and 8) with me and am dealing with many of the issues you're facing.

I'm working on lightening my kitchen - your interm and final solutions are of great interest to me.

I've found that margerine dishes work well for plates/bowls, as do the ziplock disposable bowls - and they stack well. GSI has a nice set of stackable hot/cold plastic cups with handles: http://www.backcountry.com/gsi-outdoors-infinity-stacking-cup that I bought for the car camping kit, and won't give up in the backpack.

I chose a MSR Dragonfly stove for stability, but fight with the weight cost, and question if I'd be better off with a pair of alcohol stoves, or a Pocketrocket (or similar iso butane stove) with a pot support to accomodate a larger (2 or 4 liter) pot. My kids like Kraft mac and cheese, and I don't think the "just boil water" approach is going to work for family trips for some time - at least not for us.

My converted from car camping pot set has frying pan lids. I see the value, but question the cost in weight. A seperate frying pan, to be brought when the menu warrants, seems more reasonable now. My kids like dry cereal better than pancakes for breakfast.

On OregonMouse's recommendation, I bought a TarpTent Rainshadow 2 tent and like it. I have not used it in a downpour yet, however. Given your kid's ages, two of these might solve your problem at a cost of 5lbs, and allow you to keep the older three kids together and the baby with you and your wife...

I've liked the Mountain Hardware Lamina series of bags for spring/summer/fall use. Depending on your lows in Florida, a Lamina 45 might be all you need, they are on the lighter side, and have been available at a cheap price. If you have the money, there are many nicer suggestions for bags in the threads here on the site - I'm just not yet willing to pay Western Mountaineering's prices for a bag to give to a child.

Sincerely

Steadman


Hi, Steadman

Thanks for the great ideas! How do those cups cope with hot liquids like cocoa and tea? I'm still making a budget for the new gear but the TarpTents look very attractive.

I usually go with a 30 degree bag that compresses well. We've actually been car camping when it's been down into the 30s, even in central Florida.

Andrew

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#154661 - 09/14/11 08:32 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Glenn]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By Glenn
If you're leaning toward the Pocket Rocket, you might want to wait until January or February. According to the press release on their website (http://media.cascadedesigns.com/pdf/MSR%202012%20Stoves%20Release%20NA.pdf) they are releasing an updated version of the Pocket Rocket that is more compact (so perhaps not as tall or tippy?) and has beefier pot supports (for those larger family-size pots?), and it will be available around January. They didn't say what the price would be; depending on that, you might be able to get a Pocket Rocket and one of their "universal" canister stands for less money and accomplish the same thing. (Their stand is really nice, well thought out and easy to use.)

Another alternative is the MSR Superfly - four really strong supports, and a spreader burner head that works better with larger pots. I've had a Pocket Rocket for years, using it with my Titan kettle for a solo cookset; the PR's concentrated flame pattern is sized proportional to the Kettle's small bottom. I use the Titan 2-pot set when I'm sharing gear with a group, and the PR's flame is too concentrated for even hearting - but the Superfly's spreader flame is just the right size. I've philandered on my Pocket Rocket with a Snow Peak Giga and a Jetboil, but I keep going back to the PR as my go-to stove - a great balance of light weight, simplicity, reliability, and sturdiness.


Thanks, Glenn

I'll probably need one before then to take advantage of the cooler weather remaining this year. Maybe the older models will be going on sale.

Andrew

Top
#154662 - 09/14/11 08:35 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Cesar]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By Cesar
On our family trips I take a gsi dualist and a haulite kettle. We usually cook in the dualist and boil water in the kettle for hotdrinks. I know its not the lightest option out there but it works for us. Also since we usually just do over nighters I take a trangia alcohol stove since it can simmer and a supercat stove to boil waterwater in the kettle.

Ill have to look into those bowls. Im sure they are a lot lighter then the gsi nesting bowls/mugs. What mugs do you take?


Hi Cesar,

The set up I used towards the end of last season was heavy. smile A 2lb single burner Coleman stove with small propane bottle. Metal plates and cups and pots from the car camping gear. You can see why I'm eager to drop the weight, right? smile

Andrew

Top
#154664 - 09/14/11 08:39 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Steadman]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
I think the Rainshadow 2 TarpTent looks perfect for my needs. At 78" wide it will accomodate myself and three kids and then I can take the other small tent if we all go. I love the weight - 2 lbs 10 oz - WOW! smile

Andrew

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#154688 - 09/15/11 02:42 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: FamilyCampingDad]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
Our family of six uses a Tarptent Hogback (4 person) and a Tarptent Scarp 2 (2 person). (It would be lighter to use a TT Double Rainbow rather than the Scarp, but it doubles as my heavy-duty winter tent.)

Last trip, we just cooked on an open fire using a 4 quart Open Country pot (~13 oz). The pot is light, inexpensive ($15 or so) and usable, but not the most durable. A stove is nice though, and I did a quick last minute purchase of the Optimus Crux stove this year before a canceled trip. I've tested it with the large pot once, and it seems to do ok if I'm careful. I've heard the Pocket Rocket supports don't support large pots well due to the way they fold.

I'd skip the fry pan and keep meals simple.

We use the Ziploc containers without the lids as bowls and cups. 16 oz for adults and 8 oz for kids--very lightweight, inexpensive solution. I use one of these when solo also.






Edited by ohiohiker (09/15/11 02:43 PM)

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#154733 - 09/16/11 11:55 AM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: ohiohiker]
Claus Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 56
Loc: Central Iowa
You might also consider cooking with a smaller pot (1 to 1.5l) and cook multiple times/multiple dishes.

Also keep in mind fire banns for open fire. Using a stove is often tolerated during fire banns.
_________________________
Please feel free to disregard my opinion.
http://adventurelaus.blogspot.com

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#154755 - 09/16/11 08:24 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: Claus]
FamilyCampingDad Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
Okay, I ordered the Rainshadow 2 from TarpTent. I can't wait to try this tent out and see what it is like!

Andrew

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#154931 - 09/21/11 01:14 PM Re: Backcountry Camping with Family [Re: FamilyCampingDad]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
They work great for tea, or any other hot liquid you want to use, and are dishwasher safe!


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