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#137926 - 08/22/10 09:58 PM Technology leads to trouble
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html?hpw

Some of these stories are old, but worth retelling.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#137933 - 08/23/10 08:06 AM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: TomD]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I realized, early in my career, that it was about 2 percent (maybe even less, perhaps 0.5) of park visitors that kept us busy and gainfully employed. I think the article misses the point. It isn't technology causing the situations - it is people misusing the technology. It all so often comes down to good or bad decisions....

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#137934 - 08/23/10 09:07 AM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: oldranger]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
"I think the article misses the point. It isn't technology causing the situations - it is people misusing the technology."

Exactly. The availability of the technology certainly does sometimes empower folks to do dumb things, but I don't think it makes sense to blame the device(s). Mind you, my trail name is "Gadget" ...

But consider this text from the article:

"A French teenager was injured after plunging 75 feet this month from the South Rim of the Grand Canyon when he backed up while taking pictures."

Note that the box camera came into general availability to the public late in the *nineteenth* century --- we've had tourists out there with cameras who could (and I suppose occasionally have) done quite the same thing for well over a century.

I do agree, however, that specific devices such as the SPOT have the potential for special problems.
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#137935 - 08/23/10 09:16 AM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: oldranger]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
Agreed. Often the good vs bad decisions are a result of people believing (erroneously) that some piece of technology will keep them safe from themselves. I often tell people if "you" are not comfortable entering into the activity without relying on the technology perhaps "you" should think twice about the activity and the level of difficulty "you" are capable of dealing with. The technology can be a life-saver of last resort, but should not be relied on to complete the "adventure". One's skill, knowledge and experience should be what the person relies on, and technology is solely a safety harness.
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#137941 - 08/23/10 12:32 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: TomD]
GrumpyGord Online   content
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Michigan
I really thought that it was funny about the men who urinated into Old Faithful only to discover that there was a video feed.

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#137956 - 08/23/10 07:41 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: GrumpyGord]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I agree it's more about the misuse of technology, but that's the point-people presume that buying a PLB or Spot entitles them to a helicopter ride if they get tired. We've had discussions about forcing people to pay for firing these things off under less than emergency conditions -like the dopes in the Grand Canyon.

The very first use of a PLB was an emergency in upstate NY. The second resulted in an arrest when the same idiot fired it off again when he went back unprepared to get his gear left from his first rescue.
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#137959 - 08/23/10 08:35 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: TomD]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
At least with the PLB, there is a federal law providing fines and jail time if you push the button when it's not a life-and-death emergency. I know the feds really went after the guy in upstate NY, although I never heard how it came out.
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#137963 - 08/23/10 10:59 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: OregonMouse]
GDeadphans Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 382
Loc: Maine/New Jersey
Wow that is...I don't know the right word to describe it! It goes with no surprise to me at how far away people are with nature. Those kids that complained of "salty water" got to be kidding.
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#137971 - 08/24/10 01:58 AM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: GDeadphans]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
They weren't kids, they were adults. I'm not sure what happened to Carl Skalak, the guy in NY. His bail was $10K. so the NY officials took what they considered misuse of the beacon seriously. I think he got a fine, but can't find the end of the story anywhere.
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#138514 - 09/08/10 04:41 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: TomD]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I would have to say that it is peoples attitudes and perceptions that lead to trouble. This, along with just not paying attention to your surroundings. If you have a cliff next to you when you are lining up a camera shot, you need to take that into account while you are moving around. Wild animals are just that, wild animals. And when they feel threatened or that their space has been invaded, may do things that give people their 15 min of fame.

I personally feel that our society has lost contact with numerous realities such as where our food comes from and "the wild". We seem to live in an X-game world where "extreme" activities abound. I think it is good to go for it, but with a healthy dose of each persons limitations, experience, and the consequences of failure in mind. I have a spot...makes my wife feel good that she can track me. So now I wear it 24/7.

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#138516 - 09/08/10 04:54 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: skcreidc]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
sk said
"I have a spot...makes my wife feel good that she can track me. So now I wear it 24/7. "

I would find that really creepy to be tracked 24/7 by my wife.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#138527 - 09/08/10 08:24 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: Jimshaw]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
OK, OK. That was a poor attempt at sarcastic humour. But your right, it is creepy. And my german shorthair has a chip in her. This is another topic altogether. But, in my wife's defense, she is a sweetheart and would never make me wear a spot around town. Besides, I would still have to turn it on.

My previous discussion was really about people paying attention to their surroundings and taking responsibility for their actions. If my wife has a need to see an email once a day from me whether hunting, mountaineering, or backpacking I am fine with that. It still boils down to choices and taking responsibility whether or not you use spot or any other "emergency" gps device. These things are not supposed to be crutches. Personally, I don't want to carry any more of that stuff than I have to. GPS is nice, but give me a map and compass and I am good.


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#138545 - 09/09/10 08:38 AM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: skcreidc]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I hope my wife never reads these posts - might give her ideas. They don't implant chips in husbands, do they? - talk about a bad use of technology!


Edited by oldranger (09/09/10 08:38 AM)

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#138573 - 09/09/10 08:30 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: oldranger]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Oh they do:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_%28human%29
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#138574 - 09/09/10 08:38 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: TomD]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

PLB's up here have a hefty fine if you fire them off without good reason.

As for SPOT - well, the call for rescue is from the private company. You ask me? SAR should charge SPOT for the bogus ones - then it's up to SPOT to pass it on and/or educate their customers.

However, again as we have discussed, this also leads to it's own set of problems - even people like me, who I consider in my own expert and not so humble opinion as responsible and reasonably experienced have issues in determining when to press the button - We've had a few discussions here where I've thrown out a few hypotheticals that it isn't so clear - even to me - and I tend to err on the side of caution.

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#138583 - 09/09/10 10:19 PM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: phat]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
You might find this interesting. The guys who sell "Spot" also sell a yearly subscription. There are add-ons including, and I'm copying this right out of my NEW manual, the GEOS Alliance Global Search and Rescue Member Benefit. Yep...insurance, up to 100k spread over a maximum of 2 "events" a year. I ran into 4 guys with Spot on trail and all had it for the 911 function. But for $17/year they might drop ya if you start costing them too much money. When you pick me up with my twisted ankle, don't forget my Starbucks coffee...and make sure its hot!

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#138918 - 09/17/10 12:08 AM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: skcreidc]
GDeadphans Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 382
Loc: Maine/New Jersey
Hah TomD that makes it even worse! lol. I guess I just assumed.

I agree skcreidc! I am actually in the process of filming a undergraduate study documentary about how our campus cafeteria purchases food from Aramark, a conglomerate that basically buys food from crappy sources. Meanwhile we have great organic and locally grown food around us (there are farms everywhere out here) that our cafeteria should/could purchase. It is amazing how many people are oblivious to this fact. I hope to change there minds and be the catalyst to the locally grown movement out here. Not to mention the local farmers could use the money and helps the environment. Just makes sense.
_________________________
"To me, hammocking is relaxing, laying, swaying. A steady slow morphine drip without the risk of renal failure." - Dale Gribbel

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#139017 - 09/20/10 10:07 AM Re: Technology leads to trouble [Re: GDeadphans]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Very cool GDeadphans! I buy local whenever I can. The less shipping the better. It's hard to do though and I can't even get lightbulbs made in the USA anymore.

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