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#138951 - 09/17/10 07:05 PM Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds...
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
of base, from about 14.. and I really wasn't trying to..

http://bofh.ucs.ualberta.ca/beck/pictures/whitegoat2010, and more importantly:
http://bofh.ucs.ualberta.ca/beck/pictures/whitegoat2010/gear.txt

My last couple trips have included some extended time way above trees. I have had solo tents for that, but recently
after some trial and thinking also tried out a thermarest prolite short pad, with my pack under my feet. In the past
I've use the solo tents, but with a biiiiig pad.

While it's certainly not my hammock, in terms of comfort, It's definately not *bad*. I went with the prolite shorty after a hard look at the neo-air, discussions here, the weight of the neo air versus the prolite, and some good sessions lying down on it. As I've dropped some of my curves from years past (although I have more to go) I found I could be decently comfortable on it.

What I really hadn't considered is that swapping out hammock, tarp, and blue pad for solo tent and mini pad really dropped down my base weight - which for the last couple of hikes was just over 9 pounds.

and I swear it's not the Asperger's kicking in! I only weighted it all after I got back from the hikes! wink wink





Edited by phat (09/21/10 09:56 AM)
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#138952 - 09/17/10 07:40 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: phat]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
HMM , I use the prolight full length pad. I never thought of putting the pack under my feet. My g4 has a double thickness closed cell pad reinforced with internal horshoe arrow shaft. If i could stay ontop of them both a short pad mightwork! I know I can definatly tell if my feet shift off of the long pad on a cold night. pehaps a lite velcro stip to attack short pad to my g4 back support would make a good full lenght pad. I can see the ounces falling. Thanks

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#138970 - 09/18/10 11:22 AM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: phat]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
Wish I could get to 9. I'm stuck at around 14...I should buck up and try harder, I guess. What low temp does your 9 pounds do?

FB
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#138981 - 09/18/10 04:03 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: Kent W]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Since you have been using it, what do you think of the prolight full length pad? If its the one I'm thinking of I've seen it in San Diego for $170.

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#138997 - 09/18/10 11:49 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: skcreidc]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
Phat,

Do you buy or make you Bay Bread? If made, would you share your recipe?
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#139009 - 09/19/10 02:07 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: skcreidc]
yoyoteng Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/12/10
Posts: 1
9 lbs! That is half my gears' weight!!

@skcreidc, try geartrade.com, they have "refurbished" prolites for much less than 170.

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#139049 - 09/20/10 07:55 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: thecook]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

I make it. I didn't even think you can buy it..

It's pretty much the stock one you can find on the internet, other than I always use real Maple Syrup.

I did the calorie math - one 3 inch square with peanut butter
on it has as much or more calories than the standard "2 serving" natural high dehydrated dinners I often eat for dinner.

Anyway, I make a couple sheets of it at the start of the hiking season, wrap em, ziploc 'em and freeze em so the fat
in them doesn't get funky.. take them out when I go out.


Here ya go:

Quote:

Hudson's Bay Bread.

9 cups rolled oats
2 cups brown sugar
1/3 cup maple syrup (or pancake syrup if you're cheap, but I use the real stuff)
1/3 cup honey
1 cup of fine chopped nuts (I like pecans, but you could use almonds, walnuts, whatever)
3/4 of a pound of butter.

In a blender, or food processor, take 9 cups of regular rolled oats(the old fashioned, not the quick cook or instant kind) and grind/chop them fine.

in a mixer, put in the butter and cream it together with the brown sugar, syrup and honey. once that is mixed up good add the nuts and oatmeal. it should make a stiff coarse dough.

Take a large cookie sheet that has a lip. press it down and pack it into the sheet. This recepie does a full regular "big" 9x15 cookie sheet.

Bake it in a 350 farenheit oven for about 17 to 20 minutes. don't overbake or it gets crunchy. when you take it out use a rolling pin or spatula to press it down while it cools repeatedly - I use a rolling pin and just go over it a bunch of times for the first 3-4 minutes it is out of the oven. If you don't press it down it is crumbly and doesn't pack well.

let it cool and cut it with a knife or pizza cutter while still warmish. I cut it in to approximately 3 inch squares, (which means I get about 15 bars per sheet) and then let them cool fully. I take them out of the pan, wrap them each in plastic wrap and then shove them in a ziploc. they freeze good. Remove from freezer and take hiking. one 3 inch square is an enormous high energy lunch for hard days.

Goes fantastic slathered in peanut butter, jam packets, or on it's own.

Don't eat them when not hiking or you'll be morbidly obese and need a deflabinator.
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#139051 - 09/20/10 08:01 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: Fiddleback]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Fiddleback
Wish I could get to 9. I'm stuck at around 14...I should buck up and try harder, I guess. What low temp does your 9 pounds do?

FB


Well, that bag is rated at 0 to -3 (Centigrade) I figure the first night we were out on that trip it hit about -5 and windier than all heck, icicles all over the waterfall we were next to and running water frozen, with the ground frozen hard. We were both fine but a little bit cool - that's about the limit of how low I would normally go with that gear. But it is
definately what I would call "three season" in my rocky mountains.

Now having said that about all I would change for a bit colder colder (let's say -10C at night) would be to add a pound for a bigger fluffier bag, and another pound for a 300 wt fleece, so that would take me up around 11. Put in serious snow and then I'm probably taking a lot more though. I really don't travel light in wintertime.
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#139052 - 09/20/10 08:07 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: Kent W]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Kent W
HMM , I use the prolight full length pad. I never thought of putting the pack under my feet. My g4 has a double thickness closed cell pad reinforced with internal horshoe arrow shaft. If i could stay ontop of them both a short pad mightwork! I know I can definatly tell if my feet shift off of the long pad on a cold night. pehaps a lite velcro stip to attack short pad to my g4 back support would make a good full lenght pad. I can see the ounces falling. Thanks


I didn't need to do this in my little tent, I had my virga and jacket under my feet, and it mostly all stayed put. It certainly didn't bother me any - I kept my butt and torso and everything on the short pad, so rolling around I wasn't "scootching" the pack, as long as I kept my butt and shoulders on the pad - really not a big deal. I've actually done this for a couple of trips now, since I did a few without trees... It's not a hammock but is sometimes worth it for the neat spots to stay in - no trees in places like this:


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#139057 - 09/20/10 09:52 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: phat]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
Thanks for the recipe! It is very similar to the ones I've found on the internet, but it must be better because it comes from a source I have some contact with thanks .
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#139077 - 09/21/10 10:49 AM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: phat]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
Yup...I gotta try harder. My 14lbs gets me to -4C, maybe -10C if I incorporate the sit pad into the sleep system (dual use, no extra cost in weight). On the other hand, in the hammock I've experienced the most comfortable nights on the trail ever. It'd be nice to drop weight but I gots to have my beauty sleep. grin As your signature reminds, and as was my Scout group's motto; "Any fool can be uncomfortable", and I hate looking foolish. blush

The recipe looks great...I'm printing it out now. Thanks.

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#139098 - 09/21/10 04:30 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: phat]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Wow. If that is a "galloping glacier" it's about ready to eat your little tent! Great photo.

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#139131 - 09/22/10 01:07 AM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: Fiddleback]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Fiddleback
Yup...I gotta try harder....

On the other hand, in the hammock I've experienced the most comfortable nights on the trail ever.


No, you don't! I'm at about 14 base with my hammock rig and all my creature comforts. and I won't change that! Frankly, what that means is that on a 2 or 3 day trip I'm starting with 18 or 19 pounds on my back versus 13 or 14.

I'm not carrying my WBB blackbird when I'm camping way above the trees.. If I'm in the trees? forget it.. I'm taking my hammock!

However this just goes to show what I have always contended.. even when saying how much I love my hammock - hammocks *are* heavier... I'll still carry the weight if I can use it, but they are heavier.
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#139132 - 09/22/10 01:12 AM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: wandering_daisy]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
Wow. If that is a "galloping glacier" it's about ready to eat your little tent! Great photo.


That's my "Secret" spot above Jonas pass in Jasper Park. There is this tiny little beautiful flat, soft, well drained absolutely perfect patch of pure sand sitting about 20 meters from the toe of that glacier in the middle of an enormous rock field.. - you can just fit two or three tents on it. It's an awesome spot, you look out over the rock field across the jonas shoulder with a view of all the glaciers on Mount Poboktan, and of course there's the glacier behind you, and the ridge you see there above it is easily scramblable...





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#140493 - 10/14/10 09:21 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: phat]
JPete Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 304
Loc: Eastern Ontario
Phat,

I also did the math on the nutrition. Yeah, wow. I can work out the weight of the dough easily enough, but can't guess what the shrinkage will be. Any idea what one of your 3" bars comes out to in weight? (I'm guessing between 3 1/2 and 3 3/4 oz)

Thx, jcp

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#140495 - 10/14/10 09:49 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: JPete]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By JPete
Phat,

I also did the math on the nutrition. Yeah, wow. I can work out the weight of the dough easily enough, but can't guess what the shrinkage will be. Any idea what one of your 3" bars comes out to in weight? (I'm guessing between 3 1/2 and 3 3/4 oz)

Thx, jcp


they aren't terribly light- but then again my snacks are always the biggest weight of food I carry. I need to make another tray as I am currently out - so I'll weigh one for you when I do - but I suspect if you take the weight of the ingredients and divide by 15 you'll be spot on.

(You could always cut the big sqare bars into a more normal size for a smaller portion)
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#140522 - 10/15/10 10:58 AM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: phat]
JPete Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 304
Loc: Eastern Ontario
Thanks Phat,

I think you are right. There is very little moisture to cook out. The dough comes out to 3.76 oz. a bar. That makes it right at 161 cal./oz., well above Snickers and Cliff bars, and I like the balance better as well, and yes,I was thinking of cutting them in half (I'm not that big a guy anymore). Also figure these would take well to augmentation with Fiber One and protein powder, and maybe some dried fruit for taste.

On the original subject of this post, I think about 8 1/2 to 9 lbs. is about standard/normal for groundpounders for three seasons these days.

I've been there for several years now and even as an avid watcher of this site, I haven't found any way that I'm comfortable with to cut that significantly. Since I carry a poncho, I could ditch my rain gear, but I use the poncho for shelter, and I need some way to make the night run (plus, I wear the pants at the laundramat and the top for wind). At least most of the time, I could ditch the silk longies, but they give me a feeling of safety and comfort, and a few extra degrees on a really cold night. But I still think nine is about the same benchmark that thirty was for so many years.

But at this point, this is all daydreaming, since I'm unlikely ever to hike any distance again anyway.

Take care, thx jcp

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#140530 - 10/15/10 01:58 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: JPete]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I've been following the snack bar discussion with interest and have even tried the recipe. I think the bars turn out great and the calorie density is nice also! For me that ends up at 2oz of snack bar per day. Thanks for all the posts Phat and JPete.

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#140536 - 10/15/10 04:02 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: skcreidc]
JPete Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 304
Loc: Eastern Ontario
skcreidc,

You are entirely welcome. At the moment, I won't be making them any time soon, but for several reasons, these look more attractive to me than the endless list of granola bar recipes in the cooking section. See notes above on cutting down and ways to fortify for even better nutrition balance. If you try this, let us know.

Best, jcp

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#140539 - 10/15/10 06:29 PM Re: Hmm.. I seem to have dropped to 9 pounds... [Re: JPete]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By JPete
Thanks Phat,

I've been there for several years now and even as an avid watcher of this site, I haven't found any way that I'm comfortable with to cut that significantly. Since I carry a poncho, I could ditch my rain gear, but I use the poncho for shelter, and I need some way to make the night run (plus, I wear the pants at the laundramat and the top for wind). At least most of the time, I could ditch the silk longies, but they give me a feeling of safety and comfort, and a few extra degrees on a really cold night. But I still think nine is about the same benchmark that thirty was for so many years.


Well, if I were to change that up a bit to genuinely go for a reduced weight I think I can easily drop a pound off of it. Frankly, that's still carrying a black diamond one shot - if the trip were somewhere with mostly less of a possibility for severe weather, I cold drop to just my silponcho for shelter and probably do ok dropping about a pound to a pound and a half from that base.

OTOH, *that* trip I was darn glad I was actually carrying what I was - the first night the weather was abominable and severely windy - in a place with very little places to hide from it, and while I'm just fine with a small tarp when I can pick some cover to help out with it, when you're in an alpine windbowl with no trees it's a bit tougher.
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