How many of you have actually got caught and had to spend a night out with only day-hiking gear? I figure I have bivouaced about a dozen times,however some have been planned on climbs that take more than a day. What caused the night out? What clothing and gear did you have?

My first night out was on a climb in 1969- first attempt of a wall in the Wind Rivers. We got caught in a downpour lightning storm that wetted all the rock so could not get up the last 200 feet. We started rappelling about 6PM, alread quite wet. We rappelled until a few hours past dark (it was a full moon night) and then came to sheer rappels that required daylight to find anchors. Here we sat on a 2-foot ledge, roped in, four of us huddled together. The elevation was about 11,000 feet and it was August. It froze that night. We would take turns being on the inside. We sang songs, told jokes and did isometric exercises. We had heavy wool pants, leather boots, wool socks, wool mittens, wool balaclava, wool shirt, wool sweater, coated nylon poncho and a small amount of left over trail food. At the crack of dawn we continued to rappel a sheer cliff. Three rappels and we were off. The rest of our group back at basecamp were relieved to see us!

Much later, in 1994, I was doing a solo 16-day hike in the Sierra. When I got to the Ionian Basin I so much wanted to do the Enchanted Gorge and see Barrett Basin - and had little time left. I started out with the intention of only "peeking" over the edge below Chasm Lake, and got hooked. It was a high snow year. I had an ice axe and did a controlled slide down to the next lower lake, realizing that I was not going to get back up! Well, then I had to descend. At this time I always carried a light aluminum pot in my day gear. This was a life saver. I continued to the fork with Goddard Creek and started ascending Goddard Creek at 6PM. I continued until dark at about 8PM (it was Sept). At dark I found a spot and pulled up grass to make a bed and started a fire. I luckily found a big stump so had a nice smouldering fire all night. Unknown to me the "grass" I pulled had wild onions! I fell asleep once and woke up finding that my hickory handle ice axe was on fire! I smelled like roasted onions. This was bear country! I had light wool pants, wool shirt, wool sweater, heavy leather boots, wool hat and mitts, coated nylon raincoat. The site was at about 9,000 feet elevation. I had one tea bag left, so brewed tea flavored water and sipped hot water all night. I got up at dawn the next day and continued up to the Ionain Basin and was back at my camp at Chasm Lake by 1PM. I spent the afternoon sleeping. Luckily I had all the 7.5-minute maps I needed to navigate the area.

There are others, but these two stick in my mind the most. Neither night did I get much sleep, I shivered a lot, but had sufficent gear to survive. Both nights could have turned into more serious trouble had the sun not shone in the morning. On the first, I honestly think that survival would have been difficult if it were not for our group size.

Three of us were planning to climb the Mexican volcanoes over Christmas break in 1962, so we decided to do Mt. Humphreys (Arizona) as a "training climb." It turned into a solo ascent since I was the only one with snowshoes suitable for the deep powder snow we encountered. I did fine and reached the windswept summit ridge, stashed my snowshoes, and crawled to the top in fierce winds.

Descending, I reached my shoes and left them, thinking "I'm descending, I don't need the extra weight (UL philosophy even then!). The error of my ways became evident as night approached and I could see that I had progressed about 100 yards in one half hour. I fashioned a little cathole in the powder, put a covering over the top, put on all my clothes, and settled in for a long night. What saved my stupid butt was my small Borde stove. I would doze off, wake up, melt snow, make tea/hot water, flex my toes and arms to warm up, and doze off again. I was determined to appear to be in control of the situations when the rescue team arrived. When dawn arrived, I had rested enough to leave my little snow chateau and make reasonable progress down the hill to the trailhead. Got my butt chewed out by the local deputy, who wasn't about to launch a rescue operation for the likes of me.

Later I heard a comment from an Arizona sheriff that egotistical people seemed to do best in survival situations. I think I illustrated his point.

On an early ascent of the SE ridge of Baboquivari, three of us took along a beginner on his very first climb (The SE ridge was pretty much cutting edge in those days.) Due to snow and the beginner's slow pace, we were benighted on the descent and decided to bivvy up. Lighting our fire with one match (our only match, since we spilled the contents of the match case in extracting the one we had) we huddled up. I shared my second wool sweater with the beginner, who had zilch. With company, the night went pretty well. At dawn, we hiked out to the ranch house/trail head, where we were fed a sumptuous breakfast (scrambled eggs and elk steak) before we returned home.

Later on, I spent many impromptu nights out doing search and rescue, when you knowingly went into situations with an indefinite return time. With a bivvy sack and extra clothing, many of those were quite decent. I remember one where the first thing I saw when I awoke was a pottery fragment about three inches away from my face. We were sleeping right on top of an archaeological site I had never recognized before, although I had been along that trail dozens of times....

My most memorable "sleep-out" was in 1969 when a friend and I decided to climb the North Buttress of Mt. Johannesburg near Cascade Pass. This is a bit over 5000' of exposed, mixed 3rd, 4th and 5th class climbing with a stretch of steep ice at the top. I think the route had been climbed before but we could not find any reference to it in any of the journals to which we had access. So, in several places, the our route ended in an impasse and we had to back down and try another way. We started up at about 3:00 am on a mid-June morning and topped the steep ice at about 10:00 pm. We were absolutely exhausted. We rappelled off the summit block and then scrambled down the south side to some heather meadows and bivouacked. We had our clothing and a poncho, some extra food and our climbing gear. About 2:00 am it started raining and blowing. We pitched the poncho using our ice axes as tent poles but there was not much room under it. We got wet from condensation and from rain on the parts of us that were exposed to wind-blown rain. We survived the night without too much sleep and hiked out as soon as it was light enough to see. I suspect that we would have been warmer if we hadn't been so tired.

My unplanned night out was a bit...unique because it didn't start as a camping or backpacking trip. I was up in McCall, Idaho with my girlfriend and her family in early January. They had a timeshare at a cabin up there. It was going great, but after a day or two my girlfriend and I ended up getting in a fight. I was pissed so I got in my car and drove off. I was just driving, not paying much attention to where I was going when suddenly the road in front of me changed from a paved (and plowed) road to a dirt (unplowed) road.

I was going too fast to safely brake, so I downshifted and just let myself naturally slow down. When I had finally slowed enough I realized that I was on a road too narrow and snow too deep to turn around. So like an idiot I continued forward, looking for a place to turn around the car. Oh did I mention it was nearly dark at this point? Finally after a while I saw a fork in the road and a place that looked like I could turn around. I managed to get my car halfway around before I got stuck. I wasn't dug in too deep, I just didn't have enough momentum to get the car out of the rut..

Sitting for a minute I decided to see if I had anything in my trunk that might help me dig my way out or anything. I didn't have anything in the trunk that looked like it would help me get my car out. I did have an emergency blanket which I put in my pocket just in case I was stuck. So I spent a good little while trying to rock my car out of the rut it was in. Shifting from reverse to drive, etc. Something that I had forgotten was that when my car would shift from Park, or Reverse, into drive it automatically locked the doors for you. So after I got out once and was pushing as hard as I could I heard the door close. That was perhaps the most gut wrenching thing I could have heard right then. I checked and yep, my car was locked, running, with me outside, late at night, in the middle of nowhere, wearing sneakers, jeans and a polo shirt. Needless to say, I cursed a little.

After debating a bit, I decided that I would just break a window. It wasn't ideal but it was better than my other options. So I went looking for a rock. As I got maybe 15 feet away from my car, my feet went out from under me and I slid down what felt like a (near enough) vertical slope. I came out lucky and didn't break anything. I landed in a big pile of snow. Looking up I could make out the light from my cars headlights. I figured I had slid 50-60 feet. Well aware at the point that my situation was bad enough, and would probably just end up worse I ended up making my first smart decision of the night. I decided to stay put. I dug out my emergency blanket, and I hollowed out as much of a snow trench as I could manage with what I had. I then got my hands on as much nearby pine branches, leaves, whatever that I could. I put them in my trench and laid my blanket on top of them. I laid down on the blanket and covered myself up.

It was by no means a comfortable night, but early the next morning (just after sunrise) I heard a car come down the road. I started yelling for help and about 2 minutes later a man stood up at the top of the ridge where I had slid down. He threw me a rope and helped me get back up to the road. It turns out that his cabin was just down the road! So he graciously took me back, fed me breakfast and called into town for the locksmith. About an hour and a half after I got to his cabin I was back in my car and driving back to town.
My girlfriend had apparently thought I decided to just drive home, and told her family that so no one knew that I was missing.

My most memorable time was when I was 15 - let's see, that would have been 1984 - I did an unplanned overnighter looking for an overdue hunter in northern Alberta. cold night, I slept semi-ok thanks to being able to build a fire and lie down in proximity, and had a plastic painters tarp to keep the freezing rain off me. Had I not had fire and tarp on that night I doubt I could have stopped moving, I'd have frozen.

Had one other lost-hunter amateur SAR type episiode that was similar in the late 90's. not as memorable, I was well prepared and it was warmer - I was also older and dog tired by the time I
bivvyed up so I slept semi reasonably.

I've had a couple times all related to water - where I've been out
for a day and then caught by thunderstorms which turned a trickle into a dangerous torrent late in the day. Easier to wait it out than do something stupid and try to cross it.

I actually have never had one. I came very close once when I forgot the flashlight in my daypack about 20 years ago. I was luckily able to get down off the Gorge cliffs before it got dark (or I would have stopped for the night) and was able to grope back to my car on the Gorge Trail 400, which is the remains of the old scenic highway and pretty level.

I try to be prepared for a unplanned overnight, though. Especially on the steep parts of the Columbia River Gorge, it's not safe to be groping around in the dark!

like mousse I have never had an unplanned overnight, BUT I have had a few very poorly planned ones... Since I generally had to drive 150 miles to the mountains I rarely did so without a pack that was packed from a list. Now days If I had an unplanned night out, it would be from a 4wd trip gone bad. I like to carry a chain saw, lighter fluid and a BIC when I go 4wheeling so I can light a warming fire, and since this is Oregon its no big deal.
Jim

In addition to several unplanned nights out, I taught mountaineering at NOLS, and we required a "bivouac" on each course (I taught 10 courses where we did this). These were "planned" inasmuch as we knew when we did them (only planned these in stable weather), however students were not allowed to take any more than they would take on a day-trip. Most chose to stay within a mile of base-camp. I used this as an opportunity to do long climbs - typically long ridge-runs of 4th class to low 5th class difficulty. I usually had a handfull of brave students who would choose this option! We had some absoultely wonderful adventures while learning that survival does not equal sleeping or comfort! Since we were always above timber, most of the time sitting in a sheltered spot on some rocky ridge at 11,000+ feet, fires were out of the question. Our main difficulty was finding water to drink. I really feel the ability to know the line between survival and comfort is something every backpacker should know. I also found that spending a few nights out really expanded my horizons regarding what was possible (particularly in the relm of multi-day climbs). It also taught me to always carry sufficient gear to spend a night out.

My husband reminds me that he too spent nights out- every night with a poncho in the Vietnam jungle - getting shot at to boot. In that light, my "bivouacs" were quite luxerious.

I've never had one...part of that is being cautious and planning ahead a bit. Actually, it seems to me that if you are spending the night and haven't planned for it, you've done something wrong!

On the other hand, I have done my share of hiking in very low visibility conditions...but with a flashlight or similar light source.

I do not agree that if you have had a night out you have done something wrong. The reason that we carry "essentials" is that we realise that sometimes things beyond our control happen. Say you are on difficult off-trail day-hike from your backpack base camp and you sprain an ankle near your farthest point from camp so would be too slow to make it back to camp before dark. There is off-trail terrain that is not safe to travel with a headlamp - better to wait until daylight. And there are unexpected difficulties that can simply exhaust you. It may be safer to rest and resume travel in the morning. Climbers get "caught" more than backpackers, especially if you are trying to put up first routes. In some ways there is no such thing as an "unplanned" night out, because if you carry the "10 essentials" or equivelent, you are planning on a small chance of getting caught out. If you carry "essentials", how do you know they are sufficient? A test night out with only day-gear is a very useful exercise.

Idk i often go on day hikes in extreme weather...the last NE winter was awesome...just for fun

and even though they are planned day hikes i'm always ready with gear if god forbid i needed to hunker down

Daisy
there you ago again, are you saying that there is a diffenercence between theory and practice?

So as I said, I've always know when I was going to spend the night out. I had a camp in the muntains above my parents house where I could hitch hike 25 miles and then hike into and often I hiked in there with nothing by star light, but when I got to my camp there was a tent, bed and a sleeping bag, water filter, lantern etc.

It was the poorly planned nights out where I intended to spend the night out, but had no idea what I was in store for, like camping on top of the snow at the base of the Eiger at -40 and having my sleeping bag buried in the snow. I hope I lived to tell about that one.
Jim

Well, if you wanna get techincal I do *plan* for it with the contents of my daypack.. but of the four I've done, do I think I did something wrong? nah.. two of them were because some other sorry twit did something wrong and I ended up looking for them.

The other two were a conscious decision, based on conditions that had become dodgy. I knew I was at a lot less risk taking an "unplanned" (but I had enough to be safe) night out with the contents of my daypack than go wading through over the hip deep very very fast water. Option one, I might be a little uncomfortable. Option two had a good chance of making me dead. could I have made It through if I had to? maybe. but I didn't, and I'm here, all for a little more than a not very good sleep, and crossing water that was barely up to my knees in the morning.

When I discovered mountaineering (and life began) I read many accounts of starry bivouacs, particularly by the lyrical French climber Gaston Rebuffat, who could wax poetic about frostbite. I realized that basically you would get caught out eventually and you needed to prepare for the eventuality. Later on when I got into SAR, the ending of every operation was indeterminate, and bivvy gear was routinely carried. I have no idea of the number of nights I bivvied while on SAR, but it probably exceeds fifty or so. Of course, at that point, you could argue that the event was planned. I can say that many people do indeed spend unplanned nights out, and most of the time they survive them, but not always......

Just a brief postscript....

SAR isn't all flash and action. We also mounted a decent educational effort. I talked to a lot of school classes about basic survival.

One starry night we were thrashing the mountains looking for an eleven year old who had wandered from a picnic, and I was told that he had been in a class that I had talked to a few months earlier. I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best as the search extended to the dawn. At that time time he popped up, fresh as a daisy. He had settled down and got some sleep, while we thrashed through the woods. "Good work, young man. You passed the final exam."

I've sort of done this - although it was a little more than what I carried in my daypack - I did a test trip a few years ago to see how "SUL" I could go, with only my poncho tarp, blue pad, light bag, and everything minimalist. In actual fact I was carrying only slightly more than my typical daypack contents, in that I had three days food with me, sleeping bag, blue foam mat, and a bit more extra clothing (I did carry it in my "daypack")

I had a nice 8 pound packweight. but my recollection at the time was "this is about as comfortable as getting stuck out" - kind of made me decide I had lightened up enough for me at merely "lightweight" - and so I kept my hammock, big tarp, and other creature comforts.

To me there is a big difference between an unplanned night out and an unprepared night out. An unplanned but prepared night out may be uncomfortable and unpleasant but easily survivable. On the other hand, an unprepared unplanned night out can be fatal. I have spent several unplanned nights out when a route was hard to find or when the work took longer than planned. My night out on Johannesburg (see above post) was the most memorable. I don't think, though, that I have ever spent an unprepared unplanned night out.

I've never had an unplanned night out when backpacking or hiking. In some cases that was luck, in others it was certainly my intuition to get the heck out before I couldn't get out without risk. But for the most part, it's because I generally won't go out when the weather isn't perfect, or if I do, I'm expecting some weather and I'm very well prepared for it.

I always carry gear to get me through a few extra nights when I go out bushwhacking, even if it's just a short day hike.

It's dual purpose, I know I might need it, but my secret hope is always that I might just decide I don't want to go back yet, and not have any good reason too.

Those nights may legally qualify as "unplanned" (as far as my wife is concerned I know they do), but certainly not for the intent of the thread.

Bill

Well that's where the thread gets all kinda fuzzy. If my "daypack" has a poncho tarp, warm layer, garbage bags, small pot, alky stove, couple of ounces of alcohol, tea bags, chocolate bars, and etc.. how "unplanned" is it. I do pretty much always have that stuff in there (ask OregonMouse about my Tea habit..

realisticly, throw in a sleeping bag and a backpacking dinner, and I'm hiking SUL.

The tea is a really good idea! I've never done it during the day before, but on a dayhike with Phat and Bigfoot last September, Phat brewed up some tea and it tasted really good!

Tea is also great to brew up when everything goes awry--the weather turns bad and you're not sure you made the right turn at that last fork in the trail. Sit down and have a cup of tea! Things will look a lot better and your brain will start functioning normally!

I second this, I am partial to my tea. It is amazing how much better things seem to be after a cup of tea. Especially if it is cold, or wet, or whatever!

My intention, probably not clearly stated, for this post was to reflect on the basic gear we put in our day packs- is it really sufficient if things go wrong. Of course we put it there for a "planned" emergency. A few of the beginner's questions posted are about what to minmally carry on a day hike. I was curious how many others had got caught out for a night and what your experiences were.

In my opinion, you never really know until you've done it. I am just saying a lot of theoretical stuff is thrown out there that has not been really proven. And the location and conditions of your hike will dictate your "survival kit".

Being able to build a fire is good, but I certainly would not count on it. Some people think all you need is fire starting stuff. Sometimes you get more wet and exhausted simply running around finding wood and fighting a fire that won't stay burning, than if you just hunkered down. That is why I am a proponent of always having basic waterproof shelter, be it space blanket, rain clothes or bivy sack. Night out without rain - then yes I build a fire - gathering wood keeps me busy and warm. Not the same in a downpour - then I hunker down.

There is always the debate about walking on in the dark with headlamp and hunkering down. I do not think there is one answer. Those who have only "walked on out" probably have not been in conditions or locations that preclude this. I have spent enough nights out, that for me, I feel it is safer to stay put until light. I can trip over my own feet in daylight!

I am also convinced that a lot of luck is involved. It is amazing how some very ill prepared folks survive a "night out".

does anyone know if constant comment is available in leaf form? i find it rather wasteful of me to rip apart the flow thru bags before a trip...

does anyone actually bring actual bags if not? i kinda get annoyed having to bring soppy tea bags back out

I've never found it, and I do take that one semi-frequently. I just wring out my bags and pack them out, they don't weigh that much.

However, constant comment is an orange spiced black tea - you may find if you have a local tea shop that they have something similar in loose leaf form. then you can just take loose leaf and a tea ball.

Just FYI, I get my teas from http://www.adagio.com. I don't work for them or anything, I just have really enjoyed their teas. They all come loose, so you can pack them up as you see fit.

If you want to give them a try, PM me an email and I can send you a $5 certificate.