Although I have done a fair amount of hiking and am in good physical condition, I have done little backpacking. My wife and I are gearing up to start this Spring but I am a bit concerned about shoes. I have had a tendency to sprain one of my ankles in the past and on a recent hike to quarter dome in Yosemite I turned it slightly right out of the gate. I finished the hike but sure don't want to have this happen when backpacking, don't want my wife to have to carry me out! I would love any suggestions for shoes, brands etc.

Question 1, how much does your pack weigh? This makes a big difference. Question 2, do you use trekking poles? They help keep you more stable.

I have found supportive trail runners to be much better at preventing turned or sprained ankles than boots. That's because many models have far more anti-pronation support built in than do boots. With boots, the best you can do is try orthotics until you find something that keeps your feet stable but is otherwise comfortable. The support provided to the ankle by the boot upper, at least for me, is mostly psychological.

Recommending a particular brand or model of shoe or boot is just about impossible because our feet are the most individual part of us! I can't even recommend one for women like me with wide toes, narrow heels, hammertoes and bunions, because when Columbia Sportswear took over Montrail, they completely ruined the Hardrock for what I need it for.

In other words, you'll have to do a lot of shopping and trying on. Take your pack with you, and shop late in the day when your feet are larger. Do a lot of walking around in the store, and ask for an up/down ramp. Do several hours' more walking (again with pack) on the carpet in your house, no matter how boring, while you can still take the shoes back.

Good luck!

Do you have a tendency to sprain your ankle when you're barefoot? If not, then you may want to consider some of the very thin soled footwear like the Vibram KSO's and Inov-8's shoes and boots.

Richard,
I have to disagree with my learned colleagues on general principles, we all understand, you need multiple inputs. I NEVER go into the Sierras with anything but heavy high topped real mountain boots or mid weight hikers preferably made of leather, unless I'm in climbing shoes. If you will be off trail the only good use I see for cross trainers or trail runners is for stream crossing or lazing around camp. That said, my buddy took off his big Asolo boots and was showing me his new camp slippers. A minute later he slipped off a rock and badly scraped his knee landing on granite, and it was definitely due to the shoes.
Jim

Jim,

He didn't exactly say where he'd be hiking, only that he sprained his ankle at Yosemite. At this point I agree with you about footwear in the Sierras.

I'm with Jim. I badly sprained an ankle running a long time ago and use boots to prevent a repeat of that. I wear Asolo's but that is because they fit my feet. Merrill and Vasque are good brands. I'm sure there are others. I used to wear lightweight boots made by Hi-Tec for work because they fit right and were cheap, but they would only last about 3 months.

I still have an old pair of Asolo full leather boots I wore in New Zealand and never had a problem with them and that included fording streams and walking on some very rough tracks. In contrast, I had a light pair of New Balance boots and they came apart after a short while. I presume the technology is far better now, but I am leery of lightweight footwear in rough conditions.

The last thing you want is problems with your footwear. You'll read every different idea you can think of here, so my advice is to see what works for you. Just keep in mind that ankle damage is hard to repair and that if you are far into the backcountry and can't walk out, you have a real problem.

Thanks everyone. I will probably have a pack weight of no more than 40 pounds and will mostly be in the Sierras this year (Yosemite) I way only using one trekking pole last year and might have actually turned my ankle on a small rock. It happened pretty fast. I have been pretty lucky for years since I have been going to the gym, so maybe it was a fluke.

I count ankle turns. I spend a lot of time off trail in the sierras and stuff happens. Rocks roll under you when you're off trail and you hop off them - pack weight matters then. A day that doesn't have 3 rock rolls is rare, 6 is more common. Assume that it will happen, the question then is, will your boots help prevent serious damage when it does happen? Will your hiking pole be set when it happens, or in the air going to its next set? Are you spry? Walking seems like an easy thing, why then does it take kids so long to learn? We take walking for granted, but after I shattered my knee and was on crutches for 6 months my right leg forgot how to walk. My toes forgot how to wiggle - true. I had to teach my toes which one was which, like a baby, and teach them to wiggle and I had to take a step with my left leg, observe it moving and teach my right leg to do the same movements. Watch people walk, it seems some can barely do it and always trip - like my wife. Sloppy walkers they are. In Boy Scouts we learned how to walk, toes straight ahead, side by side making two trails about half a shoulder width apart. I generally walk thinking about my breathing when hiking, I take two steps inhaling and two steps exhaling etc, this gives the right amount of aerobic condition for normal hiking. Be conscious of how you walk when carrying a pack. Walking is done by the lower brain, you can teach yourself to walk better but it takes time and effort. In the Sierras on rock you want your foot to fall flat onto the rock, not so much heel and toe and you want that foot to automatically calibrate itself to the rock, to set itself before you put weight on it. My feet are so used to loose rock that they "Know" how to sit on the rock on their own. My aerobics instructor taught us to lift our foot and set it flat on the step before we moved our weight over it and pressed up. At first it was awkward, but of course it saved us ankle damage.
Jim YMMV

I am going to respectfully disagree that boots are ALWAYS necessary.

I have Asolo FSNs - these are not a full sturdy boot, but a compromise boot that is light but still quite supportive. The difference between the FSN and the lighter boots/shoes is not necessarily in the ankle but in the soles. When you walk in them on a hard floor they feel very stiff and straight. What that stiff sole does is protect you from footsoreness and support the foot in general. I wear these when I am out off trail or when I am carrying a heavier pack than usual because they are good foot protection. Note I didn't say ankle - protecting the foot is my main concern.

I also have trail shoes - a pair of Salomans that provide decent (but not stiff) footbeds and a pair of Merrell Ventilators that provide NO support. The soles are so flexible you can stand on the ball of the foot easily. I've backpacked with light 20-25 lb packs in the Salomans, no problems, but the Merrells leave me footsore. So they are my day hike shoes, when it's a short 4-6 mile round trip and I'm not hauling a backpack. They are nimble and cool for summer hiking, and dry very quickly.

With all of these I wear green Superfeet, which provide additional support for arches and don't wear out as fast as the stock insole. I can tell when a shoe or boot is due to be replaced - a pair of Keen mids (Voyageurs) were my main hiking shoe for a year until they started giving me blisters, the first tipoff that I'd worn them out.

I have yet to twist an ankle or blister, or do any damage to my feet when hiking with any of these. When I was younger I just wore cheapo tennies - it's only as I've gotten older and had a bigger budget that I picked up real hiking shoes. I have rolled feet - accidentally had a foot twist so my weight came down on the side of the foot/shoe - but this has not so much as caused temporary pain, because I rolled through the stumble instead of trying to recover from it, and the very next step I walked onward without injury. It's only happened three or four times over the past three years and usually because I am very tired rather than because of terrain, which is always the Sierras or the coastal ranges of California, both of which have many rocky trails. I have NEVER worn a full mountaineering boot and doubt that it will ever be necessary for me. I don't feel any more ankle support in the Asolo mid height than in a shoe, and when I try on a full (Vasque) boot my ankle GETS SORE. I backpacked with some big heavy boots for 20 miles and sold them - took a week for my feet and ankles to recover. Clearly my feet do not agree with the notion that a full boot is necessary.

Start walking more and exercise the ankles and feet. Have your doc refer you to someone who can have a look at the offending ankle and get recommendations for what to do. If it's something about your stride or something an orthotic can address they'll be able to tell you. What shoe/boot works for you is a totally personal and individual thing. I'd start by looking at why you keep spraining the ankle. When you say you have a tendency to sprain one ankle, it makes me wonder about that - give the details to a qualified professional and see what's up.

I have to agree with lori. The best thing you can do to prevent ankle strains is to build them up by walking more.

If you sit at a desk for months with little hiking or walking then start walking a mile a couple times a week a month before a planned backpacking trip.

The other thing to remember is to warm up before you start hiking. Do some stretches and exercises to get the blood flowing before strapping on the pack and hitting the trail.

"Start walking more and exercise the ankles and feet."

Ditto with a couple of caveats. First, I don't think there's a "one size fits all" here. My sense is that for whatever reason(s), some people seem to easily turn an ankle whereas others don't. Maybe enough exercise etc can shift a person from the "not so good" to the "bombproof ankle" group, or not; I don't have an opinion. I would suggest that a person who feels their ankles aren't strong should use two trekking poles, however.

Most PCT thru-hikers go through the Sierras in trail runners, and most (the north bounders) tend to go through the Sierras in June when there's a lot of snow, creeks are high, etc. I did so in 2008 and had no problems. I definitely would not have wanted heavy boots going through there.

YMMV a lot; I think the bottom line is that a person should try out what makes sense for them and be happy with that, whether boots, shoes, sandals, or barefoot. For me, the right answer is a quick-drying not waterproof trail runner type of shoe.

I would just like to say "amen" to exercising the feet. I personally find bicycling quite beneficial. At times when I have "tweaked" either my ankle or knee when hiking, I have strengthened it very nicely by increasing my cycling.

Another vote for exercising the feet. My feet have been aching almost all year since I started lifting weights. Now the pain has almost gone since I started training for my thru-hike.

I heartily agree with the idea that wearing light weight shoes is more comfortable and less tiring. I have Nike trail runners and they feel great and have nice tread for walking the dog. They are like illustration #1 and are great for flat smooth surfaces.
In illustration #2 I show a vibram soled boot with a thick enough sole to support your foot on very rough surfaces without feeling a pressure point under your foot and the sole is rough enough to "lock" onto the rock.
Illustration 3 shows a thick soled kletter boot, actually an old fashioned climbing boot with a narrow welt and a lot of "edge" meaning a stiff edge that can take full body weight without folding under - the opposite of the shoe in #1. These boots are generally leather, weigh 3 pounds each and are high topped and are often referred to as crampon boots.
Illustration 4 shoes a sticky soles climbing shoe on extreme rock, they have no "edge" but they have "smear" meaning the soft sticky sole spreads out under pressure to put a lot of surface area on the rock.
Each of these foot gear choices has a good reason for its existence. Insisting that one shoe fits all conditions is just wrong. I choose an appropriate boot or shoe for the terrain and my intended use. Off trail in the Sierras I prefer #2 or #3, definitely the latter if I expect to be places where its a very long ways down.
Strong ankles are a good thing, but I'm not sure anyone knows how to get them if you don't naturally have them.
Note that in my avatar I am 500 feet up and I am wearing #4
Jim

I have to weigh-in with Lori. I have hiked off-trail in the Sierra for over 10 years in tennis shoes and low-cut hikers. The terrrain inclueds 80% of the Sierra High Route and LOTS of talus hopping. Occasionally on scree, I have to go slower than I would if I had mountaineering boots. But I would rather slow down 5% of the time and be lighter the other 95%. I have even strapped crampons on tennis shoes. My toes got a bit chilly after 2 hours in snow. I replace the insole with Superfeet and size for thick wool socks. I ditched the boots 15 years ago. My shoe of choice is now a Merrel low-cut leather shoe.

I think it is all individual. I am light, carry a moderately light pack and have strong ankles. I do feel that repeated use of low-cut shoes has strengthened my ankles. For those with a history of serious ankle injury, this probably will not work.

But I do think you need to experiment and go with the lightest shoe that works for you. You may want to try a mid-cut shoe. Be sure to get a boot or shoe that really fits well. I think it all helps - even how the arch fits or having the proper width on the fore-foot.

"Each of these foot gear choices has a good reason for its existence. Insisting that one shoe fits all conditions is just wrong. I choose an appropriate boot or shoe for the terrain and my intended use."

Here's another area of varying viewpoints. Jim adjusts his footwear to the conditions more than I do --- neither of us is "wrong" or "right", we just make different choices. The same trail runners do it for me in most conditions short of a fairly serious mountain climb or equivalent, and I can think of some mountains I'd be willing to climb in trail runners --- really, most stuff short of where I'd feel the need for plastic boots and full 12-point crampons.

With my trail runners I'll add wool socks, then goretex socks, mini-crampons or 10-point crampons, I might carry a pair of VB socks or cheaper equivalent (bread bags) but in general I'm happy to just soldier on in the same shoes for most stuff.

Ultimately what's best for a person is something that they have to work out on their own.

This is quite subjective, I I have the impression that my ankles have strengthened over the years. I definitely wear lighter footgear than I did when i started in the outdoors. Now I usually wear something that comes below my ankles, not above.

Brianle
You're the second persson WD included to mention crampons with trailrunners. Does this really work? Do you use old fashioned crampons with leather straps? I never gave this idea any credability before. I'm going up on the glacier on South Sister this summer and I would only need crampons for a short section. I gave away my old crampons and only have the clip ons for my plastic boots now. The terrain is so rough up there I had intended on wearing kletter boots. hmm
got a photo?
Thanks Jim

Kahtoola's crampons can attach to any footwear. They have lightweight aluminum crampons too.

Eugene
hey thanks. So I am wondering if the other guys were refering to "microspikes" or actual crampons? The crampons are pretty pricey and not that much different from my step-ins. Still I'm just not that sure about going up on the glacier in my trailrunners.
Jim

Hi Jim. I think that the beefiest "maximally real" 12-point steel crampons do need (or at least recommend using with?) a boot with a good shank. But you can at least get darned close in trail runners. I have a pair of 10-point Stubai aluminum crampons that work great with trail runners and really are a crampon, not just the more vague "traction device". I climbed Mt. Adams in these, second highest mountain in WA state (though I'm pretty sure I wore boots then; not sure which I'd choose today for that particular mountain ...).

I've also used the 6-point sort of mini-crampons that ULA used to sell (discontinued), and certainly various other mini-crampons will likely work fine.

I don't have pictures I can think of off-hand of me; a hasty web search turned up this picture, maybe there are others (I didn't look hard).

Brianle
thanks for the photo, the Kahtoolas site also shows similar things. I can relate to the rubber traction devices on trail runners for traction on level snow, but the crampons on tennis shoes just makes me cringe and think of mountaineering with cotton clothes line. I guess people don't worry about losing a crampon, or a foot coming out of a trail runner, which is scary because anyplace you are wearing crampons you could die if you lost one and didn't have an iceaxe. This is the beginners forum and I just think this is irresponsible to suggest to someone without the experience and judgment to know when they are in danger. I am a solo climber, but just because I do it doesn't mean I suggest it as being a reasonable thing to beginners. A lot of traveling with really minimal gear requires years of experience. I don't think that 99% of beginners know that a slide on what appears to be a mild slope cannot be stopped with knowing how to self arrest and having a tool. I can self arrest with a hiking pole, but how many begginers know how?
Jim

"... but the crampons on tennis shoes just makes me cringe and think of mountaineering with cotton clothes line."

Understood, and the picture I did find is lousy in that it has a sort of cheap canvas tennis shoe, not something I'd go out in the woods in. For my thinking, however, thicker leather or something beefy isn't a great choice in extended wet weather either. It really depends on the conditions; if it's going to be consistently below freezing, I might go for something like a mukluk rather than a traditional boot (no experience here, however). But when you transition a lot from snow to no-snow and have a lot of snowmelt to deal with, I prefer a light shoe that can dry out quickly; boots take forever to dry once they're wet. The shoes really do work great in snow so long as you size them to allow for wool socks to fit inside. And such a shoe with a goretex sock is IMO at least as good as a goretex shoe. Add a gaiter if desired, again, depending on conditions.

Whoops, I just noticed that this is the "backcountry beginners" where this discussion is developing --- not really the right place!

"I guess people don't worry about losing a crampon, or a foot coming out of a trail runner, which is scary because anyplace you are wearing crampons you could die if you lost one and didn't have an iceaxe."

It's all about trade-offs I guess, and again, the particular conditions expected. I've never had a foot come out of a trail runner, FWIW. A gaiter might help that too, as well as just lacing the shoe snug (not "tight" ...) enough. I won't go into the whole "crampons no ice axe, or ice axe no crampons, or ..." discussion ... ! Losing a crampon is possible with any footwear, I guess, but I also haven't had that happen. I've walked out of older style snowshoes often enough, and that can certainly get old quickly in deep snow, but never a crampon.


"This is the beginners forum and I just think this is irresponsible to suggest to someone without the experience and judgment to know when they are in danger."

Yes, I just caught onto that too and absolutely agree, I don't think either of us meant to get this much into it on this in this forum.

"I can self arrest with a hiking pole, but how many begginers know how?"

Not something I'd care to try; are you choking up and digging in the tip? Trying to self-arrest with anything not designed for that immediately after starting an unexpected fall and slide doesn't sound too optimistic to me.
Maybe with a self-arrest pole like the Black Diamond Whippet or Grivel Condor.

Since we have moved well out of anything appropriate for a beginner thread on selecting shoes (!), is there a way to move some of this discussion? OTOH, perhaps it's wrong to assume that a natural extension of discussion like this isn't of interest ... the general idea that "shoes can be okay in snow" is something I would be interested in as a beginner. Hopefully folks are all smart/wise enough to try something like this out in a fairly safe day-hike manner initially (!).

Are we talking hiking here or are we talking climbing? I hike, primarily on-trail or relatively easy off-trail. The trails may be rocky, but it's not like climbing! When I switched from boots to trail runners a year ago (very dubiously!), the first thing I did with the trail runners was deliberately to try to turn my ankles. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it! In boots, on the other hand, I have turned my ankles any number of times. The difference is that I've never found any boots that had the pronation control of a well-built running shoe. At least for me, that makes all the difference!

What gives a shoe ankle support is a good heel cup, excellent sole support (the pronation control which I badly need) and good traction. I've found much better support in high quality trail runners (NOT sneakers!) than in boots. Unless the upper of a boot is completely stiff rather than flexible, it will not give the sideways ankle support that you need, unless you can find orthotics to go into it that make up for the lack of pronation control in nearly all boots.

A second motivation for my switch is that it's almost impossible these days to find boots, especially women's boots, that don't have a Goretex lining. My experience is that my feet won't breathe in Goretex boots but are eternally sweaty. And once I got my Goretex-lined boots wet inside, they took days and days to dry.

A third issue is that one pound on your feet equals approximately 5 pounds on your back. Does this site look familiar? If, like me, you can't carry the heavy weight without damage to feet and joints, lighter footwear can make a difference!

A caveat here--everybody's feet are different, so what works for one person is not necessarily going to work for another. Trial and error and a lot of shopping, trying on and returning of footwear are going to happen before you find what works for you.

"Are we talking hiking here or are we talking climbing?"

For my part, there's not a clear binary choice, but a range of gray scale. Hiking on great trail, hiking on more sketchy trail --- perhaps with significant elevation gain. Then there's variations on scrambling as well as the various things people mean by the term "bushwhacking". And then there's straight climbing. Sometimes I'll be intending to do a "hike" but for whatever reason find that part of it has become more of a scramble. And I personally wouldn't be comfortable doing a long trip in footwear so delicate or otherwise unsuitable that I couldn't go off-trail for some distance if I needed to.

Recognizing now that this is a beginner thread (!), I'll stop here with just the general comment that some folks will use shoes for a lot of the above type of conditions where others might find boots recommended (or even required in some organized group situations), and that someone inexperienced in this aspect of hiking would do well to try out more aggressive use of shoes (or sandals or bare feet or whatever) in safe dayhike conditions where it's easy to adjust if problems are encountered.

Dang, that could come across as sounding like shoes (vs. boots) are a real expert or high-risk choice, and I don't mean that at all ...