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#123206 - 10/31/09 03:36 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: sabre11004]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
I didn't realize the folk singer had ran the coyotes out of there habitat, that sheds new light on the situation, i hope that teaches those folk singers a lesson about land development, and for the rest of you humans remember you are not a part of nature but everything else is and your fair game for any disgruntled relocated animal.

I mean really!

I feel terrible for the family who has to imagine there loved one being eaten alive.
_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#123329 - 11/03/09 03:47 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: Rick]
dla Offline
member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
I don't believe that story for a minute.

Wolves yes, Coyotes no. I smell a wolf-lover cover up. And who is the retard giving advice about carrying a knife? Are Cannucks really that dumb?


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#123333 - 11/03/09 05:43 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: dla]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee
I have your retard...well you know where I'm sure. You put yourself under any wild animal. Would you "rather" be without??? I think you are the retard....sabre11004 lame
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#123338 - 11/03/09 07:03 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: dla]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
Just a few days ago another coyote attack was reported. Apparently a couple of coyotes killed a pony on a ranch. I don t think they would lie about it.

Howie

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#123446 - 11/06/09 01:54 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: sabre11004]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
You put yourself under any wild animal. Would you "rather" be without???


I agree with that when it comes to wilderness areas. We have lots of public property here where coyotes can roam, and they do. But when they come on private property to hunt game I have to draw the line.

Tonight I might sleep in the forest out behind our house. The weather is perfect. If I do, I'll bring my camera and see if I can get some sound on video of the coyotes yipping and howling. They were sure raising a racket last night!

Bill
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#123450 - 11/06/09 05:19 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: ringtail]
4dayer Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 5
Loc: California
Wow! What an unfortunate event. Well, I have visited the back country all my life and have never had a problem with coyotes. I usually bring my dog and of course a side arm! Honestly, the weapons aren't for the wildlife but for some of the characters that I have encountered! Sad but true!

Chad
http://www.4dayeroutdoorgear.com
use promo code lovethe4dayer for an additional 10% discount!

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#123766 - 11/13/09 11:12 AM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: sabre11004]
Zalman Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 97
Loc: Olympic Peninsula, Washington,...
Originally Posted By sabre11004
I have pretty close encounters with bears, cats, and a fox or two...


And apparently that's not all you have to worry about. This sensationalized list of the Top Ten Most Badass Animals Native to the USA I found in my news this morning should keep a few people out of the woods.

Not sure why it's specific to the USA, but it makes me consider moving to Canada.
_________________________
It's easy to be a holy man on top of a mountain.
-- Larry Darrell

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#123778 - 11/13/09 02:15 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: Zalman]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
That is truly a poor piece of "journalism"; I've seen better on Fox or in "checkout stand" tabloids.

They should have listed humans at the top of the list; for every fatality from a wild animal there are likely over a thousand caused by humans.

In 1998, there were 14.24 firearm-related deaths per 100,000 people in the U.S. each year. http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/27/2/214.pdf For a U.S. population of about 300 million this works out to over 40,000 per year. I don't think that all of the deaths by wild animals in a year in the U.S. would even reach 1000. And, theses figures don't include the fatalities caused by drunk and/or negligent driving and other fatalities not caused by the victim's negligence.

Folks tend to have really distorted perceptions of risk.
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May I walk in beauty.

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#123791 - 11/13/09 10:34 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: Pika]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
It seems to be a year for aggressive coyotes. This morning a man phoned into the radio station to warn and tell of a coyote encounter he had while walking his dog. This was within city limits. He said that he always knew coyotes as being timid animals but this particular one acted very aggressively towards him and his dog.

Howie

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#123798 - 11/14/09 05:54 AM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: Howie]
Rick Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 708
Loc: Ontario, Canada
This is but one of several articles that have been written over the course of several months here in South Western Ontrio. There was a simmilar article that appeared in the Corner Brook Nfld paper when I was there in September.

Coyote Fears Grow in GTA

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#123804 - 11/14/09 09:21 AM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: Zalman]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
That article is absolute crap.

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#123812 - 11/14/09 12:52 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: oldranger]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3973
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Hi Ranger

Yes it sad the way the media plays this junk, but I suppose it helps their own surrvival mad.

One of the cool things about skiing in Yosemite is having coyotes running along with me 25 feet away. :)They are looking for a hand out. You look into there eyes and you sense their wildness and fear of me, overcome by their seeking a handout in the winter. I have camped in the midst of coyotes and NEVER had any fear or any reason too.

For that matter, I've camped right in the home territory of a huge blackbear and seen him skirting my camp. I do mark my territory and bang on a pot at sunset and scream "hey bear I'm camping over here", lest he accidentally bump into me. confused

Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#123819 - 11/14/09 03:24 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: oldranger]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By oldranger
That article is absolute crap.


Hmm... Seemed balanced to me.

Quote:
Coyote fears grow in GTA
Reported sightings jumped to 68 this year from 15 after incident in Beach, fatal Cape Breton mauling


Quote:
Carl Bandow, supervisor with Toronto Animal Services, said the jump in coyote sightings could be tied to reports of aggressive animals in the news.

"I would suspect with the Beach-area coyote that people were more aware," Bandow said.



Quote:
One man who has used the park and surrounding area for 70 years said he has never seen a coyote act aggressively and there is nothing to fear.

If (walkers) are in an area less travelled, the coyote will stop and look at you and try to figure out who you are," said Bill Lewis, 82, program director at Rouge Valley Conservation Centre.


All those statements sound reasonable and accurate to me.

In my experience here in the Ozarks when city folks move here some do get freaked out when they see wildlife come into their backyards. Locals don't. That's why there are still coyotes, bobcats, black bears, and who knows what else, running around here. We don't want to exterminate them, but we know we must control their populations.

Coyotes are a problem here right now. Most likely the coyotes had an above normal reproduction cycle the past couple years here. I know for certain there are more than any of the past dozen years running around here right now (I hear them every night) and it's a fact that more domestic pets and small livestock have been taken by them here, this year, than in recent years past.


This year my neighbors close by and I have lost at least a half dozen small dogs, dozens of domestic cats, and lots of chickens and other fowl. Coyotes and bobcats are what got them. We have to do something because things will get ugly if we don't.

For example, the outdoor cats are not just "Pets". They control snakes, rats, mice, and other small critters. Chickens control ticks, chiggers, mice, snakes, and other pests. Many of the snakes are venomous, the ticks can cause lyme disease. Other pests eat produce.

So, here are our choices:
  • Let coyotes feed on our pets and livestock.

  • Move to the City.

  • Thin out the neighbors.

  • Thin out the coyotes.

They're all crappy choices, but the latter is the only one that's going to happen.

Now, if one lives in a metro area where coyotes are not a problem for them, than they don't have to decide which of these options to choose. And they can help alleviate the problems rural folks have with coyotes by staying in the city. But I don't think it gives one a high horse to sit on.

Anyone who eats eggs, chicken, beef, pork, or veggies and fruit of most every kind, and is not producing it all themselves, is better off letting rural folks figure out how to deal with these issues.

If they think they know a better way, show us. We're all waiting for them.

Here, where I live, there are families that have lived here for many generations. They know what it was like when wild beasts were on the top of the food chain here. It sucked.

Here's an account from when things were still wild here that took place less than a mile from where I live: SAD ACCOUNT OF A LOST CHILD

And another.

And a whole bunch more..

The real truth is, most people have forgot what "Wilderness" really meant here just 200 years ago. Read the "Journals of Lewis and Clark". Read what they said about Grizzly Bears here in Missouri.

Personally, I'm thankful for how it is now.

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#123832 - 11/14/09 08:11 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: billstephenson]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
It was opening day for deer season here and my son-in-law, Travis, and his buddy, John, were hunting on our land down back this and they saw three coyotes and no deer. The hollow behind our house is known for big bucks and is considered a prime hunting spot. They did hear a buck snort at them, but never got a good view of him.

John said one of the coyotes came trotting up within 30ft of him before it saw him and then ran off around him. They didn't shoot any of them.

I'm not kidding, the coyotes are as thick as thieves here this year.

_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#123838 - 11/14/09 09:19 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: billstephenson]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I think we must be referring to different articles, because I could not find the statements you referenced in "Top Ten Badass Animals Native to the USA," the piece I am criticizing. The reason it is crap is that this article continues to promote the sensationalistic fixation on death by predators, neglecting to mention the very real hazards that are more worthy of attention. I don't believe it even has the animal hazards straight. The biggest animal killer in the USA, year in and year out, is the honeybee - anaphalactic shock.

I don't have the stats handy, but I believe dogs, wild and domestic, kill far more people than coyotes in a typical year.

I have lived in Arizona or SoCal for the last fifty years, and I have seen a lot of coyotes. One of the more recent was slightly more than a quarter mile from my house in a neighbors yard. I can hear them every morning as I pick up the paper. I have also seen bobcats in town and black bears are reported in nearby communities. We bring our critters in at night and stay alert.

One of the nice things that coyotes do is keep the rodent population in balance. Rodents are another killer, carrying various diseases. Right now there is a fair amount of concern about rodent borne hanta virus, which has killed far more people than coyotes ever have. When hanta virus was diagnosed, I found I had been working for several years at the Arizona locality (del Muerto canyon) where the syndrome was first identified. I have also worked in the midst of a bubonic plague outbreak, another charming illness for which rodents are an indirect vector. I say bring on the coyotes!

About fifteen people a year die from rattlesnake bites, a pretty paltry total. It is easy to learn the proper techniques that will increase your odds considerably. Oh yes, rattlesnakes chow down on rodents too.

It is easy to take an extreme position on what is clearly a very emotional topic, judging from the internet chatter. I am sure there are situations where problem bears, coyotes, etc. really should be put down, after careful analysis.

The thing is that when you are assessing hazards attendant upon outdoor activities, know what the real hazards are. Falls are a prominent cause of fatalities, as are extreme weather conditions, both hot and cold. Drowning is a big killer. Be alert to these problems, and you have increased your chances of surviving enormously. Keep the animal problems in their proper perspective.

Wild critters are a problem, and anyone competent in the woods learns the right techniques for dealing with whatever is in the vicinity. The article dissed the often given advice to stand your ground and not run when faced with a black bear. The statistics, as well as my personal experience, indicates that this does work. Incidentally, if you want to avoid bear trouble, one of the most important things to do is keep a clean camp, a fundamental strategy of course not even mentioned to the article.

I am sure I preaching to the choir in discussing most of these issues, but I really hate to see such misleading tripe fed to people who might not know any better.

Upon further review, this article is still crap.

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#123844 - 11/14/09 11:47 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: oldranger]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
I feel blessed to live in a land where we have such an array of wild, and even possibly dangerous animals. I grew up in England where we had no coyotes, wolves, bears or cougars, (other than in zoos). We did have foxes of course. The English are known for their fox hunting. Canada and United States are both great and beautiful countries, and part of that beauty is our wild animals. Here in Kamloops we have our fair share. I love it.

Howie

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#123854 - 11/15/09 11:12 AM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: oldranger]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
Upon further review, this article is still crap.


Yeah, we were definitely commenting on a different article. I looked at the link and came to the same conclusion as you without clicking on it. After reading your review I'm sure I don't need to.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#123855 - 11/15/09 11:22 AM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: Howie]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
I feel blessed to live in a land where we have such an array of wild, and even possibly dangerous animals.


Me too. Here in the Ozarks we've done pretty good at letting populations grow back to sustainable levels. Elk are one of our best recent examples. I think there are over 600 roaming free in the Ozark NF and Buffalo River NP. Eagles are another. It's now common to see them along our rivers and lakes. Wild turkey populations are as high ad they've ever been and black bears have made a great comeback and very few problems are reported with them. They all have plenty of room to roam at their current numbers and almost never get close to populated areas.

We do have issues with hunters poaching out of season here but it's much less common than it used to be and not so bad that specie populations are endangered at this time.


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#123856 - 11/15/09 11:36 AM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: billstephenson]
Zalman Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 97
Loc: Olympic Peninsula, Washington,...
Originally Posted By billstephenson
I looked at the link and came to the same conclusion as you without clicking on it. After reading your review I'm sure I don't need to.


Yes, the article is pure silliness, but I have to give them a drop of credit for noting that the most dangerous "animal" (Brown Recluse Spider) is more typically found in your backyard shed than in the wilderness. smile
_________________________
It's easy to be a holy man on top of a mountain.
-- Larry Darrell

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#123860 - 11/15/09 12:34 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: billstephenson]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I just wanted to chime in on your comments about grizzlies at the time of settlement.

In California, until the introduction of firearms, the local tribes and grizzly bears were in a state of mutual predation. The early mountain men rather quickly shot them out. The last one in Cal was shot in the 1920s and now they are found only on the state flag. Grizzlies are truly a different kind of hazard from most other critters.

I was surprised, however, to check the Yellowstone website re grizzlies. They list only five visitor fatalities since 1916, which is rather surprising.

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#123919 - 11/16/09 01:09 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: Zalman]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
the most dangerous "animal" (Brown Recluse Spider)


I didn't know that. But I can tell you we have them here too, a lot of them.

A couple years ago my home office, which is in a "Pole Barn" outside, was filled with them. My eyesight isn't so keen and I didn't really bother to ID the little buggers for several years and they kept multiplying. Finally, after one literally attacked my shoe as I was trying to shoo it out the door, I doubled up my reading glasses and took a good look. Sure enough, there was the distinctive "Fiddle" on it's back.

After that I started killing them. There were a lot of them too. I've probably been bitten once or twice and didn't know it because it was not too severe, but I know several people that have been bit, including two of my daughters (not here at home), and a bite can be very severe. I've never heard of anyone dying from a bite though I suppose it could happen.

I should add that I don't recall ever seeing one in the forest, or anywhere outside here. And I don't really recall seeing one build a web. They might, but usually I see them moving about.

I also have big "Wolf" spiders in my office which I let stay, and the occasional Tarantula which I relocate, but don't see many Brown Recluses anymore and I always kill them when I do. They are the most aggressive spider I've ever encountered.

Tarantulas will rare-up at you if you pester them, otherwise they'll leave you alone and they only come inside during Autumn when they're looking for a place to winter. Brown Recluses will charge you and jump on you when you pester them.

When I lived in So Cal I encountered so many Black Widows that I could smell them even them before seeing them, and could tell by just touching a web if it belonged to one. But they were never as aggressive as the Brown Recluses here. And we have Black Widows here too, but not near as many as in So Cal.

_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#123920 - 11/16/09 01:36 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: oldranger]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:

I was surprised, however, to check the Yellowstone website re grizzlies. They list only five visitor fatalities since 1916, which is rather surprising.


I suppose the grizzles were fairly well decimated by then. Any that remained must have learned to stay far away from people.

As I recall, after meeting their first adult grizzly bear, Lewis and Clark said they seemed hell bent on attacking humans whenever they got a chance, and knew personally they would chase you a very long way to smack you around. Before that they had dismissed reports of their ferocity as highly exaggerated.

A lot has certainly changed since then.
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#123985 - 11/18/09 01:08 AM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: billstephenson]
shawn Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 1
Loc: singapore
Quote:
Should a hiker unintentionally surprise a coyote or other animal, Gadbois has simple, potentially life-saving advice: Never act like prey."The worst thing you can do is start running away," he said. "Wave your arms, shout, just show that you mean business basically and most animals will think twice."

Just wanted to share the above quote since I thought that would be a piece of useful advice for anyone who runs into a chance encounter with any wild predatory animal. while it does not make sense to outrun an animal, it seems correct to not look like its prey.

In any case, backpackers should also take not to wear any perfumes or carry meat items in their backpack just in case they draw unwanted attention to themselves.


shawn
GuideGecko Travel Bookstore

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#124010 - 11/18/09 01:33 PM Re: Coyote Attack [Re: shawn]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
backpackers should also take not to wear any perfumes or carry meat items in their backpack


I've never had any animal get into my pack and I've never heard of that happening (in recent years) here in the Ozarks. I did know a guy that was two days into a hike at Yosemite and got lazy and didn't hang his food very high in a tree. He woke up and got to watch a pretty big bear devour all of his food. After awhile he got up the nerve to yell and clang a cup and pan together. The bear was unimpressed.

--

This is OT, and a serious digression, but I'm waiting for some code to compile so I'll relate this story:

There was one time that I went camping at "Coffee Camp" near Porterville, Ca. On the way there I stopped at a store in Springville and the clerk there told me to be careful of the chipmunks at the campground. She told me they'd been raiding coolers they were left unattended.

When we got there my wife and I had the place to ourselves. We chose our spot, set up some chairs and decided to relax before setting up camp.

About a half hour later a van came into the campground and parked right next to us. We wondered why, since it's a fairly big campground with lots of nice spots.

A man, woman, and three young kids got out and started unloading their gear and glared at us the entire time like we had intruded upon them. I decided to try and break the ice when they unloaded their coolers and set them under a tree. I said, "Hi. Hey the lady at the store in town told me that we'd better keep our food and coolers stowed away because chipmunks were raiding stuff here". The guy just scowled at me and said, "Don't worry about it". My wife just grinned at me and replied to them, "Okay, no problem".

By the time they were done unloading they had a picnic table filled with bags of food and three coolers sitting on the ground. As soon as they were done setting up a huge tent the Dad announced they were taking a hike and away they went. They crossed a stream and were out of sight in just a few minutes. Seconds later the first chipmunk showed up to case their campsite.

He went for the biggest cooler first and to me and my wife's amazement, like a tiny Hercules, he opened that cooler lid and dove inside. Seconds later he came back out with a pack of hot dog buns. Then he jumped up on their picnic table, ripped them open, chattered real loud for just a second, and then started chowing down.

Within less than another minute there were dozens of chipmunks tearing into everything they had. Since my wife and were instructed not to worry about it, and gave our word we wouldn't, we decided to just enjoy the ensuing mayhem.

Chipmunks were carrying off everything, entire boxes of cookies and crackers, packages of cheese, donuts, they took it all and left wrappers and packages torn up all over the place.

About two hours before sunset the family of grumps came back. First they looked at my wife and I sitting under a tree, and scowled at us again. Then they looked at their campsite about 30 feet away from us. The chipmunks were now just going freaking crazy ripping and tearing through everything they had. There were flying in and out of every cooler and bag they had outside tossing wrappers in the air and whopping it up like it was Spring Break in Cozumel.

The two grumps just stood there with their jaws dropped. Their kids started laughing and squealing and were tickled pink to see so many chipmunks having such a great time and they took off running to join in. A few chipmunks screamed when they saw the kids coming and in less than a second the whole gang of thieves scattered away like six year olds called in for a bath.

While the grumps were assessing the damage my wife and I got up and walked to our car. I looked at the guy and said, "Well, I think we'll head up to the Upper Coffee Camp. Looks like that lady at the store was right. The chipmunks will get in your stuff here".

I swear he was forming his lips to ask me why I didn't stop those chipmunks, and I was sure hoping he would, but he never did get it out. He just looked at me and kept his mouth shut, and then went back to picking up his mess.

_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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