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#120453 - 09/06/09 06:34 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Pika]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
I am sad and hardheaded, but "My dog and I just got back from running down toddlers, stealing picnic baskets and dodging bullets." is very funny

I am a responsible dog owner, none of my post said anything to contrary, since the respones were directed to me I reserve the right to toss gasoline.

This topic is dogs runnig loose where it is not permitted, that is why my original post blamed owners not dogs, dogs can't read so somebody, probably their owner, would have to direct them to these areas.

I do enjoy going the wrong way on a one way street but I must be on the wrong street altogether and will take my leave.

_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#120473 - 09/07/09 04:13 AM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: bigb]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
bigb:

Quote:
I do enjoy going the wrong way on a one way street but I must be on the wrong street altogether and will take my leave.


Okay . . .

but I just read the thread in its entirety tonight -- started by Dyer by the way, not you -- and never really saw any mob running at you down the street in the opposite direction you've taken. Some disagreement, but that's about it.

Jumping into a forum doesn't require much -- a thick skin and that's about it.

This one is about ultralight hiking, not really dogs, but at times dogs come up as they relate to being on a trail. When I think of all the posts I've read here over the years that relate to dogs, almost all from dog owners . . . it must be in the hundreds.

A couple years ago I took the position in an original post that the hikers in front of me with a dog might have been what lured a grizzly onto the trail (and within 20 feet of my wife) in Kootenay Nat'l Park. Not exactly a dog-owner's perspective, BTW. Many responded that my assumption was a crock. I didn't take my leave but hung in there and learned something. I do hope you continue to contribute to this ultralight backcountry hiking forum; your opinions are worth reading.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#120480 - 09/07/09 03:36 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: kevonionia]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3967
Loc: Bend, Oregon
bigb

I'm not certain how much you know about dogs. I happen to be a "dog person" with a feel for dogs and they are all about body language. When a 100 pound plus dog barks at you in a certain way and comes at you not in an open gate, but in a low attack mode, you are actually under attack. Since I am a dog person I froze, drew my gun, talked quietly to the dog and strongly suggested that he stay 9-10 feet away from me or he would die. This isn't the first time BTW. I was attacked by a BIG feral dog in Alaska but when it saw the look in my eye and the barrel of a rifle pointed at it, it ran the other way. Dogs are very sensitive to peoples body language and frankly I stand a bit straighter when I'm behind my .44.

I am proud to say that I haven't killed a dog yet, though I have had at-least 6 in my sights and my finger in squeeze mode.

All that said. I take my dog up the road into the national forest and go down a dirt road until I find a spot a couple miles in, then I let my dog out of the car. I can see/hear bikes and other vehicles quite a bit better than she can and if anyone is coming up the road I hold her by the collar. I accept full responsibility for her when off leash and I don't let her get out of my sight as this is lion country and letting my dog have her head in lion country could get her killed.

Peace. I know yer just sh******g us mostly.

So anyway back to the subject, yes I think people who consider their dog to be a personal weapons system are sort of carrying a concealed weapon with an uncontrolled dog.

Further, there are very dangerous dogs, mostly those trained for defense purposes, and they also are not bad either, just showing a phase of dog that is sort of shunned in a polite society. I live in Bend Oregon where we have more dogs that people and I can pet any dog on the street without fear of being bit. Deschutes county would put down any dog that bit or threatened someone. Its the law. Pet owners here have very disciplined animals.

This thread was about undisciplined dogs and owners who don't consider how much of a threat there sweet little dogs are. My neighbors sweat little pit bull bit me through the fence one day while she and I were having a polite talk.

Unless you are a hunter with a legitimate reason to have trained hunting dogs ranging off leash, you should never let a dog run loose. While not especially friendly, hunting dogs leave people alone as they are after game.

Soap box off.
Jim crazy
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#120481 - 09/07/09 04:23 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Jimshaw]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
I only questioned your post cause you addressed your response to me about pulling guns on dogs, it was a bit confusing, I have worn a decoy suit no less than 100 times and have taken hundreds of bites and probably have a higher tolerance for crazy dogs then most.

Its really been a bit confusing, thanks for the encouragement kevon but the point of my metaphor was there was no mob, I was on a different street, which brings me back to my point do people really read a post through.

In areas where dogs are allowed off leash you may come upon one, it may steal your lunch, steal your gun or lick your face all of which is an owners responsibility.

My dog was attacked by two overgrown yellow labs about 5 miles into a wilderness area, and if I wasn't worried so much about my dog, I think watching the owner trying to gain control of his overbread pet quality dogs would have been priceless, what a moron, and when I asked him where they would be staying overnight (so not to be near them) his girlfriend didn't want to share that secret. My dog was bleeding but ok, a bit shaken.

Some of it is tolerance, I had a horse try to bite me while i was making room for them to pass, you just never know.

I spend alot of time training my dogs, if I had a dog that wouldn't come to me I would borrow jim's .44 and shoot him, as the good old boys say "Dog will Hunt!!"

Like with any other tolerable law breaking something really bad has to happen before something is done and there is still a big ? on what to do, and peoples view on exactly how bad something is involving domesticated animals variess greatly as seen just on this thread.

peace


_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#120484 - 09/07/09 04:36 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: bigb]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
Originally Posted By bigb


...as the good old boys say "Dog will Hunt!!"


That reminds me of a link wink :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtXHCxxdjo0&feature=related

BF cool


Edited by bigfoot2 (09/07/09 04:36 PM)
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

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#120486 - 09/07/09 05:23 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: OregonMouse]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
I find myself in agreement with bigb. Where I hike is a lot of dead fall. Trying to negotiate fallen trees with a leashed dog is a pain. Therefore off leash works best in some of these areas. I rarely meet up with other people anyway. I am concerned about cliffs though. Hiking is a bit of a learning curve for me and my dog and I try to use common sense. Recently I came across a sign that read “Caution cougar in the area, be aware”. Maybe I shouldn’t have even gone there? I had visions of some cougar eating my puppy for lunch. Hiking can be a hazardous sport for sure.


Howie

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#120497 - 09/07/09 07:33 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Howie]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3967
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Howie

My dog stepped into a swift mountain stream, but I was able to grab her by the skin of her neck and haul her out - otherwise no more dog. Now when I go that area, or when I'm around cliffs, I put a harness on her that goes around her chest and around her neck with a solid ring in the middle above her shoulder. With a stout leash, I could haul her up an overhang or out of a stream without choking her, or even worse, having her collar pull off. Funny thing is - shes a rescue dog and you never know what their history is - when I put the harness on her she absolutely obeys commands and even - gasp - heals!!!!
Jim crazy
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#120499 - 09/07/09 08:16 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Jimshaw]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
I have crossed butt deep swift moving creeks with my 60lb dog on my shoulder, very intense moments, herding dog yes, water dog no
_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#120501 - 09/07/09 09:05 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Jimshaw]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
Funny thing is - shes a rescue dog and you never know what their history is - when I put the harness on her she absolutely obeys commands and even - gasp - heals!!!!
Jim crazy
Where did she get her MD? Or is she a spiritual healer?

wink

I believe you mean she HEELS... grin
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

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#120504 - 09/07/09 09:27 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Dryer]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
I was near the end of a hike this spring when I saw two pit-bulls coming up the trail. This is an area that requires dogs to be on leash. They acted very aggressive and I stepped off the trail and picked up a short stick to use as a club and continued down the trail. They turned and ran back to their owner. When he came up he chuckled and said "I hope my dogs did not scare you!" I said "If you do not want to scare people then do not let your pit-bulls run loose!"

Him: "They are friendly and would not hurt anyone."

Me: "Yes, but I was preparing to hurt them."

I turned and walked away, but he seems disappointed that I was worried about hurting his dogs rather and vice versa.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#120508 - 09/07/09 09:35 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: bigb]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
bigb,

Wilderness areas (with capital W)in Colorado require dogs to be on leashes. Forest Service land does not.

However it is not safe to let your dog off leash in the backcountry.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#120528 - 09/08/09 04:47 AM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: midnightsun03]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas


Quote:
Where did she get her MD? Or is she a spiritual healer?



I believe you mean she HEELS...




Good call! grin
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#120529 - 09/08/09 06:48 AM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Dryer]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
Ok, I'm wrong and everybody else is right, I feel so much better to have that off my chest!
_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#120532 - 09/08/09 11:38 AM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: bigb]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
bigb,

Stay with me as I wander a bit. There is a personal injury attorney in the buidling where my business is located. He has been a friend and client for 20+ years. He is generous, funny and has a terrific family. He scored in the 95% percentile on the LSAT. I know that because his brother is also an attorney and he wanted me to know he is smarter. Those of us in the testosterone brotherhood know you never outgrow being competitive. I was at the office the evening of Labor Day and noticed his car in the parking lot when I left at about 8:00 pm. I left a note on his winshield that said "I would wish you good luck for the trial, but with your focus and preparation I believe your opponent needs the good luck."

OK, I hope your are still with me. There will be two outcomes if your dog bites me while off leash.

1. Your dog WILL be put down.

2. You will buy my friend a new black Lexus RX300 to park next to his white one.

Let your dog run off leash if you can accept those outcomes.


Edited by food (09/08/09 11:42 AM)
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#120546 - 09/08/09 01:57 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: ringtail]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
Food:
You are NOT allowed to pet my dog Sherpa on next weeks hike. Come to think of it, stay away from Phat while he is eating, too wink

BF cool


Edited by bigfoot2 (09/08/09 01:58 PM)
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

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#120550 - 09/08/09 02:37 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: bigfoot2]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
I bow in humility, what was I thinking. You should write for a news paper, mass media or something, there probably would be no more dog bites ever.

I'm not sure why I trained my dog at all, I should keep him confined or restrained at all times.

Thank you for setting me straight, my dog thanks you as well
_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#120553 - 09/08/09 03:33 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: bigfoot2]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By bigfoot2
Food:
You are NOT allowed to pet my dog Sherpa on next weeks hike. Come to think of it, stay away from Phat while he is eating, too wink

BF cool


I don't bite.. Unless you're pretty..
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
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#120557 - 09/08/09 05:32 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: phat]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
phat,

You would be considered the "pretty" one if we were cellmates. eek
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#120560 - 09/08/09 06:43 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: ringtail]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Quote:
You would be considered the "pretty" one if we were cellmates. eek

Merciful heavens, that is a chilling thought! eek
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#120564 - 09/08/09 07:41 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Dryer]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I just don't buy the "No bad dogs" theory. I've got one. His name is Tucker. He's not mean or vicious, but he can get out of control, especially if a stranger gets near his food.

I feed him in the barn now, all by himself, and he growls the entire time we're in there at anything that makes a sound outside. I am about the only one he won't growl or nip at and that's only because I've pinned him down by the throat when he was still a pup and tried to attack me.

I don't believe anyone could change this behavior in this dog. He is an "Alpha Male" and would fight to the death for food or females.

I've seen him try and pull several of my neighbors male dogs, that were running loose, through the fence around the barnyard. I've seen him forsake food for over a week because there was a female in heat nearby.

I love this old aussie shepherd, and I take him bushwhacking with me on our property and the public land that borders it, but that's because I know that no one is ever back there. But I put him back in the fence when it's time for me to cook dinner on the fire pit I have back there. There's just no way to stop him from trying to get at the food.

And chase cars? He can't help himself. He has to do it. I drove him to the vets' once to get shots and he was barking and spinning like the Tasmanian Devil in the back of my Suzuki Samurai trying to chase every car that passed us in either direction. After that I tied a cloth sack over his head when we went to the vets' office so he couldn't see them. Now the vet comes to our place.

I've lived with a lot of dogs over the years, some great, many good, and Tucker... the dog you can't take anywhere.

Bill
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#120565 - 09/08/09 07:43 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Pika]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee
I walk with a dog too!!! A big dog....200lbs and wears 34" collar too. The thing is that if you are going to take a dog that size around other people, you have to make sure that they are very very disciplined. If not, what do you do when they get out of control? I assure if J.D.(my dog) got out of hand there would probably be a lot of people running for their lives and that's just not right. I always walk with my dog on a leash, but he is disciplined enough to where that is not really necessary,but I can not afford to take any chances that some one might get hurt,so I just don't take any chances...period. So, with that being said, I just do not think that you shold take your dog if they can not be disciplined around other people...sabre11004... eek eek eek
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The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#120585 - 09/09/09 06:49 AM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: bigfoot2]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
BF2,

I like dogs and enjoy being around them. I am not so sure about phat. crazy

In Colorado if you receive medical treatment there is an automatic referral to animal control. The majority of animals involved in incidents are put down. There are some limited "make my day" exceptions for junk yard dogs, but the reality is that a biting dog is a dead dog, just like a fed bear is a dead bear.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#120590 - 09/09/09 08:11 AM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: billstephenson]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
I just don't buy the "No bad dogs" theory.


Talk to your local animal control officer. They will assure you there are 'bad' dogs that no amount of training can help. (like phat....imagine 4 phats, off leash...lord help us.) grin
Again, this tread was about multi-big-off leash dogs and owners who clearly indicate they are the only ones entitled to the planet. So far, no responders to this thread would be considered that type of person.

Bad dogs....my next door neighbor has a large, mean looking pit-bull (i don't understand the the popularity of those dogs) who cowers at the sight of my little fearless kitty. It's just a big goofy dog that 'looks' mean. The same neighbor just gave away two other pits because they were "bad" dogs and couldn't be trusted. These dogs would try to crash through the wood fence and 'get' anybody walking by.

This guy has a toddler and one on the way. He NEVER hikes my park with the dog unleashed, goofy dog or not, because the signs say to, and doesn't want to lose the dog in the forest.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#120606 - 09/09/09 01:52 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: Dryer]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
To lighten this thread up a bit, here's an absolutely vicious, unleashed dog we encountered on a hike to the summit of Mt. Sherman yesterday (9/8):



Shouldn't somebody be giving this dog CPR?

No, he's not dead, just taking a power nap on the way back from the summit, according to the owner (in center.)

We met the two hikers on the left on our way up, and that's my hiking buddy JJ in my old Kelty Shadow on the right.

And it seems that whenever those dumb humans stop to gab, this lab takes advantage of the moment to catch a few zzzz's. grin

We encountered about 16 hikers and five dogs on the way to the top of this 14er. ALL the people and their dogs were really nice.

Perhaps that's a missing point in this thread that has been stated on the forum many times:

Just as we encounter fewer jerks the further we hike in from the trailhead or the more difficult the hike, so we encounter fewer jerks with bad dogs.

I've got a few more pix of this hike in trail reports.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#120607 - 09/09/09 02:36 PM Re: Big Dogs and their weird owners..... [Re: kevonionia]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Yep, it seems the people and dogs get nicer the farther you are from the tralhead.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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