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#119372 - 08/14/09 08:12 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Jimshaw]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
Hmmmm - but anyway I wonder how many people carry large white reflectors to signal to passing flying saucers while camped on sacred mountain tops.


Jim, nobody does that anymore. We use "space blankets". And the internet brings those mountain tops right into the computer room! grin

ALL sports are driven by "marketing". It's not a 'conspiracy'. How does a company take an old concept like "a bag with straps on it" and keep sales alive? By constantly changing it with 'new' innovations like ice ax loops, crampon pads, and hydration bags on your kids book bag. I ran into this in the scuba business in the '80's. Delivering air to a sport diver had been prefected....so...they made it all prettier, and started adding gizmo's that you had to have or you weren't cool. I even put dive computers in that category! Sure, plastics and materials change and improve, but basic concepts remain the same. My old gear works just fine. Camping/backpacking is no different. I remember NOT using sleeping pads from the 60's to about the mid '80's...then you had to have a Thermorest. Enter the "ultralight" mindset.....
We tend to go counter to the marketing and get back to basics.
I find thinking past the marketing and un-doing the fluff we're sold, lightens the pack a bunch!


Agree on the 'footprint' thing....that probably is a conspiracy. grin


_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#119373 - 08/14/09 08:32 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Dryer]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I remember sleeping without pads; it's not a fond memory. However, I also remember the evolution: no pad, to air mattresses (my first one was a "borrowed" pool float), to closed cell pads, to Thermarest, and now back to air mattresses (albeit insulated, this time.)

The best recent example of taking old technology and giving it a new "cool" twist is Osprey's Atmos and Exos series packs. (This is not an attempt to discredit Osprey; the packs are well designed, functional, and - from all reports - perform very well.)

Back in the 70's and 80's we had external frame packs that had been pretty well perfected; they did the job, were reasonably well ventilated, and tended to bounce around a little and move opposite the direction you were turning.

Then came internals, and they got pretty well perfected.

So, what to do to shake up the market? Enter the Atmos and Exos series packs: they look like internal frame packs, with an innovative "trampoline" backpad and "perimeter" suspension element, with cutouts in the pack cloth so air could get to your back. I got one and, after a few hikes, discovered that the pack is really a modernized variation of my first external frame pack - it had the same bounce and tendency to move against my turns. (Of course, it was about 3 pounds lighter, had more capacity, and the pockets were much more usable.) Revolutionary design? No. Improved re-tread? Yes.

I guess our elders were right: the more things change, the more they stay the same. (Or, for us children of the 60's: what goes around comes around.)

I don't see this as a nefarious cabal conspiring against us poor packers - it's the same kind of marketing and design that goes on in all industries, from soap to cars to housing. It's that constant human desire to tinker; often, the tinkering results in small improvements to existing designs. After enough tinkering, something really innovative sometimes comes along. (Thomas Edison was probably the ultimate tinkerer.)

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#119374 - 08/14/09 09:17 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Jimshaw]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
and the mass markets are people buying the same old rectangular sleeping bags and tents with rain fly's the size of bikinis. mad


Hahaha...So, this is exactly what I found when I took my scouts backpacking last week. One boy said, "I have a two man tent". I said "Great, share with this other boy". Lets just say we were lucky it didn't rain. He pulled out a one man with a rain fly the size of a PB bunny bikini. I think the fly was a 10" X 10" square. I am going to try tarps this next month.
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#119385 - 08/14/09 11:33 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
Ender Offline
member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 779
Loc: ME
Originally Posted By Barry II
New York City. "How I'd get there" was about the campground, 45 miles away. I could walk it all or take the subway then walk 20 miles or take the subway then bus then walk (depends on what bus I take), or take the train all the way. Once I'm there I could go campground hopping, maybe. I have no immediate plans for this.


Barry,

Avoid the campground... take the Metro North train up to the Appalachian Trail stop (runs on Saturdays and Sundays, and walk 5 miles in either direction for a free camp site. It's much more remote than a public campground, with trail hiking, and the camping bit is free. You only have to pay for the train.

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#119389 - 08/14/09 03:28 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
GrumpyGord Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 927
Loc: Michigan
One of the things which I appreciate about this site that it is not all gear all the time. Everyone has gear which they use and prefer but there are no endless rants about "I use a super duper pack and any one who uses a whiz bang pack is just an idiot." Most folks here will state what they have if asked and may tell why they think it works well for them but endless gear rants are seldom seen on this site. Most posts are of a more general nature than specific brand posts.

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#119404 - 08/14/09 06:57 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: GrumpyGord]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
REI will make your wallet lighter for sure. I have an old external that has the same netting the atoms pack uses, and it weights 4 pounds, thats from 1975!
I tell the guys at REI that my base weight is 9 pounds and they say, "Oh your one of those minimalists?" I tell them no, i am not. I carry all the same stuff you do, just that most of it is lighter,made, and recycled. It also shocks them for the price of the atoms pack I can make almost all my gear.

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#119475 - 08/17/09 12:57 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Dryer]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3967
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Dryer
You had dive computers? I've never used one. Lets see I was 18 when i got my Naui card, which training is now the same training given Master Divers. Lets see, that was 1967. Nope, no computers dude. Memorized dive tables and a watch worked for me.

"space blankets" of course, I guess once again I was too far ahead of my time, but back then there WERE flying saucers to signal, you know they all left in 1977 right?
Jim crazy
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#119478 - 08/17/09 02:52 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Ender]
Barry II Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 25
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By Ender
Avoid the campground... take the Metro North train up to the Appalachian Trail...
I'm looking into that. Croton Point Park has trails too, and no bears, but maybe I'll find a guided tour for the AT. One where the leader has bear deterrent. And I'll have my own. And I have to decide whether I want to deal with the threat of snakes. I may be more of a walker than a hiker until guides start carrying anti-venom.

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#119481 - 08/17/09 08:27 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Jimshaw]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Nope, I don't own a dive computer. I've used rentals but still like reading the tables. I taught in the 80's and remember when computers became all the rage...and watched the batteries die or equipment break. Like you, I started way back before BC's were standard. A computer was yet something else to hang off you. Never converted to Nitrox either.

What happened in 1977? Texas has plenty of aliens!
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#119594 - 08/20/09 10:03 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By Barry II
Originally Posted By Ender
Avoid the campground... take the Metro North train up to the Appalachian Trail...
I'm looking into that. Croton Point Park has trails too, and no bears, but maybe I'll find a guided tour for the AT. One where the leader has bear deterrent. And I'll have my own. And I have to decide whether I want to deal with the threat of snakes. I may be more of a walker than a hiker until guides start carrying anti-venom.


Let's see, you have lightning, bears and snakes covered. Don't forget mountain lions, bobcats (those little guys can really be scary), wolverines, feral dogs, coyotes, wolves, and poisonous spiders. I won't even mention all the deadly insects out there (especially the ants that try to eat you), because then you will be too overwhelmed. But, if you go with a guide they will be able to carry all the necessary deterents to ensure a nice, safe, sanitized trip. happy
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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#119597 - 08/20/09 10:31 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Bear Deterrent? For black bears?

Okayyyyyyy.... Here's a real ultralight one. Stand where you are sure the bear has plenty of room to escape. Wave your arms, yell, throw rocks in the general direction of the bear. Watch it run.

I still think you're having fun with us. I haven't seen anything like this since that girl joined our hiking group and asked if there was a bathroom available on the trails (all of them), and how much water to carry because she didn't trust filters.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#119599 - 08/20/09 11:09 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: lori]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Well, almost every trail I have been on has a bathroom on it. My 6 year old son thinks the bathrooms on the trails are WAY better than any in civilization. crazy
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#119603 - 08/20/09 12:16 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: lori]
Barry II Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 25
Loc: NY
Lori, if you never learned to make noise as you're hiking when there may be bears around so they'll know you're coming and run, as opposed to suddenly finding you five feet away from them and maybe attacking, that's scary. And you're not supposed to keep food in your tent and you're supposed to seal up your clothing after you cook. And I'd have someone with me who could get help if I'm bitten by something potentially poisonous (you're supposed to lay still), be an extra set of eyes, help scare away dangerous animals, etc. And I'd use a non-metal pack, even if I have replace the metal parts myself.

These aren't just my theories. They're best practices for safety that I've heard or read elsewhere (except for the non-metal backpack, but I read to keep it 100 feet away in a thunderstorm if it has a metal frame, and I don't want to.)

For day hiking, it says here that you should carry 32 oz of water.

I'd probably think more about poisonous insects before I went hiking, but I think snakes are more dangerous.


Edited by Barry II (08/20/09 12:18 PM)

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#119606 - 08/20/09 01:15 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Since I've been in the Sierras all my life and had no problems at all - I have seen a grand total of four black bears despite decade after decade of going into Yosemite, where the most habituated bears in the world live - I think I'm very likely doing something right. Please spare me lectures on food safety and so forth, I know how to follow the rules, which are far stricter here than in your neck of the woods.

I'm sorry you're so afraid of these creatures. Paranoia isn't going to help. All environments and all situations have a learning curve, and all risks are not equal. Statistically speaking you will have a better chance of being hurt in your own home, or on the road to the trailhead, even if you don't bother to learn anything about injury prevention. If you want some realistic ideas of the dangers in the wilderness check out some SAR statistics.

I find it interesting that you show up in a forum looking for information and reject what you're offered. You may read all the books and articles in the world - they will contradict each other, as there's a lot of outdated info and misinformation.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#119609 - 08/20/09 03:58 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Dryer]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Dryer, that's when I was teaching too. No computers either. I think they came along in the late 80's but were so expensive, I never got interested in one. Tables aren't that hard to learn and they never run out of power. I remember doing 9 dives in two days on a boat trip and it was all done on tables.
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Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#119612 - 08/20/09 04:13 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: TomD]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Barry, I don't know who has convinced you that the outdoors is so dangerous, but whoever it was did you a disservice. Many of the people here have hundreds, if not thousands of miles of hiking and climbing on their resumes and virtually none of them have even seen a bear, been bitten by something or been hurt (except Jim who broke his leg jumping over a log, but that was his own fault from what I hear; hehehe).

My point is, yes, you could be eaten by a bear, kidnapped by drug dealers, fall off a cliff or get struck by lightning. BUT, if you just stay home, you could die from eating bad mayonaise, get swine flu, get hit by a car walking across the street or get hit by a piece of space junk. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

The chances of any of these things happening is about zero, so stop worrying, take reasonable precautions and go out an enjoy yourself.


Edited by TomD (08/20/09 04:13 PM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#119613 - 08/20/09 04:40 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Barry,
I think you are trying to scare yourself. Perhaps you should take better heed of what some of the more experienced individuals on this forum have to say rather than arguing with them.

You worry about bears. Good. Bears can hurt you. Are they likely to? No! The odds of you being a victim of a bear attack are about the same as those of your being mugged in church; insignificant. I have hiked, worked and mountaineered in the western mountains for over 60 years. This experience includes a lot of time in bear central, the Sierra, as well as in grizzly country in Alaska, Yukon and British Columbia. Have I had bear encounters? Yes, quite a few. Did anything come of them? No. Once, I got near a sow grizzly with cubs. She bluff charged, I retreated, and all was well (after I changed my undies).

The biggest problem one is likely to have with bears is their trying to get at your food; I suspect that most bears would prefer even instant oatmeal to a bite of you.

Snakes? I live in SE Arizona. There are a lot of rattlesnakes here and a lot of different species of rattlers. Are they a risk to one's safety? Yes. Are they a significant risk to one's safety? No. In season, I see at least one rattler on every other trip into the local mountains. I have never had one strike and they don't attack.

I was bitten on the calf by a rattlesnake back when I was about 12 years old. It scared the crap out of me but it was a dry bite and required no treatment. I'm told that over half of rattlesnake bites are dry. Well over half of all bites are on males between 16 and 25 years of age with alcohol a common factor and often accompanied by a cry of "hey guys, watch this!"

Poisonous insects? Again, we have a full selection here in SE Arizona. We have 3-4 different kinds of scorpion, poisonous centipedes and two different kinds of poisonous spiders. None of them are a problem if you watch where you put your hands. Rabid bats are a bigger problem.

In fact, I have suffered more from the local plants than I have from bears, snakes, bats and bad bugs combined. We have stuff with names like catclaw and shin dagger. Just about everything green here has thorns, points or is poisonous. You can loose blood on just a short walk.

My advice to you is: start slow and learn about what is out there to fear. Eventually, you will come to realize that there is really not much that goes afoot that you need to fear.

On the other hand, weather changes can be very dangerous for the unprepared. Most of people who die in the back country are victims of the weather and their lack of preparation. Deaths due to animals don't even come close to these numbers.


Edited by Pika (08/20/09 04:41 PM)
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#119620 - 08/20/09 05:34 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Pika]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
"My advice to you is: start slow and learn about what is out there to fear. Eventually, you will come to realize that there is really not much that goes afoot that you need to fear."

I second that advice. Let's cut Barry some slack; if I'm remembering his other posts, he hasn't actually gone backpacking yet. He has concerns that are trivial to us after all these years - but they're very real to him, and very understandably so. I remember how nervous I was before my first backpacking trip, wondering about bears and (where I was going) the timber rattlers that were "common" to the area. (I thought "common" meant every 15 or 20 yards, and that they preyed on humans.) And I grew up in a rural town, where playing in someone's woodlot was pretty common. Barry, on the other hand, is a big city boy in the biggest of cities; some trepidation is certainly understandable, and shouldn't be ignored.

So, Barry, ease into it. Pick a weekend when the weather's predicted to be beautiful, and head out to any local park that allows camping. Plan to camp in the public campground, if you want, at the end of a 6 or 8 mile hike - long enough that you can prepare at least one meal on the trail (lunch, probably), and can try out that water filter in a creek (carry two quarts, for starters, and filter a quart when the first one's gone. That way, you've got a spare in case it doesn't work. But it will.) In the campground, choose a more isolated site rather than surrounded by others, and use only what's in your pack. If you choose well, you'll pick a park where there are no bears (save that fear for another day), but practice bear-bagging - it's a good skill to develop, it will keep your food away from the local raccoon, and you need some form of evening entertainment anyhow. You can use a "metal" pack, since there's no storms around.

(By the way, the advice to ditch the pack in a lightning storm is good if you're up on an exposed ridgeline and there are nearby strikes occurring. In the big woods, the lightning will be drawn to the 75-foot trees all around you, not your metal pack. I've always kept my packs with me in a normal lightning storm, and kept on walking; I've yet to actually see a lightning strike. Some of that walking has been on the heavily wooded ridgelines of the Appalachians.)

Getting that first trip behind you makes you realize just how small the chances are of something going wrong. Get out there, take the trip, and deal with your anxieties as you go. They're normal, we've all had them, and we've all gotten over them - or learned to plan trips where they don't come into play. They will recede, but it will take some time. If we lived closer, I'd be glad to go with you on your first trip.

(Now, just to make you feel better: Senior-year ROTC cadets learned to fly light planes. At the end of the year, I was talking to a soon-to-be-senior buddy, and he was very, very worried about soloing. He just knew that, if he was alone in the plane, something would go wrong. I gave him lots of reassurance and encouragement, and got him calmed down. About midway through the next year, I got a call from another buddy, who had been commissioned with me and still got the college newspaper. Seems our mutual friend had taken off on his first solo, made the required circuit of the field, lined it up for the landing - and tore the tricycle gear off the plane when he came in a bit too low over some wires. He was fine, though, and went on to fly F4 Phantoms, which was the hottest jet the Air Force had at the time.)

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#119621 - 08/20/09 05:34 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: TomD]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Tom, my dad was a YMCA instructor in the 50's-60's and the US Navy Diving Manual was the text book then. There were no slick PADI plastic tables or even C-cards then! I was a PADI teacher you'll probably remember a 3 year window where there wasn't even a swim requirement! I learned from my dad and BC's were 'horse collars' and most people chose not to use them.
Times have changed! (for the better...I like lazing in a BC, totally weightless)
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#119629 - 08/20/09 11:43 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Pika]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Pika

My advice to you is: start slow and learn about what is out there to fear. Eventually, you will come to realize that there is really not much that goes afoot that you need to fear.

On the other hand, weather changes can be very dangerous for the unprepared. Most of people who die in the back country are victims of the weather and their lack of preparation. Deaths due to animals don't even come close to these numbers.


Okay, here's what I started out with at the tender age of six, when I had read no books at all and had no real clue other than what I learned at momma's knee. And since momma at times lived for months out in the country in a tent or shack, taming down skunks and squirrels and wild horses for pets, I figure she was pretty good at knowing what she was saying.

* If you don't know what it is, don't touch it. If you want to know what it is, look it up when you get home, don't take it with you.
* If it wobbles or slips when you put a shoe to it, draw back the foot and walk somewhere else.
* Keep your hands and feet in your sight, and out of holes, cracks and crevasses.
* If a rock falls instead of rolls down it, find a gentler slope.
* If it rattles, walk away, even if you think it might be a gopher snake faking it with the leaves.
* If it's shiny leaves of three, don't touch it and warn your dad, he's deathly allergic and we don't want to kill him.
* If you get lost sit down and stay there and yell. (Did this a couple of times, turned out mom just moved around a boulder and I didn't notice.)
* Moss grows on whatever side is shady, don't trust it. Look at where the sun was and where it's going instead.
* If you stay still, you'll see the animals. If you make noise they go away. (Yes, this did include bears. No, never had a bear even come close.)

Still works. And yeah, it's not that simple, but it's all a kid needs other than "stay close." It mostly works for adults too. Once you start going out on short hikes you start to figure things out - that's part of the fun. I managed to survive another thirty years or so without carrying the burden of fear, then I started to find out there were books and forums about backpacking and hiking. Somehow, in all that time being an uneducated and uninformed hiker, I managed not to get poison oak, snakebit, lightning-hit, attacked by anything bigger than a chipmunk (it REALLY WANTED that trail mix!), or ever so much as a sprained ankle. I've had one infection due to a missed tick (got all the others out within minutes of bitten) and mosquito bites that went away overnight. I've only ever been bitten by a garter snake, but that's because I was a tomboy and collected snakes and had to catch garters to feed to the king snakes, which were the real fun snakes to keep. Rattlers lived in the field around my house and I played outside constantly, and never once did we get bit, nor did the dogs. Coyotes and mountain lions definitely lived in the hills around our house. Surprise! never attacked by any of them, not even if they were rabid. On any given day you could find me climbing (with permission) neighbor's fences and going bushwacking through oaks and pines and looking for treasures in the foothills, identifying animal scat as I went. I always came home with nothing more than a scratch or two and a sunburn.

The things I added to the list as an adult:
DRINK WATER. SERIOUSLY. DRINK MORE. Also, eat enough calories!
And - Don't get too cold! Take those layers!

At some point it becomes obvious that the DIRE WARNINGS in books aren't dire at all. They're just cautions to take care. No need for the RED ALERT mentality.

When we tell you things aren't as bad as you're making them out to be, we aren't just making it up. Books will always tell you how to avoid worst case scenarios. If you read in a book that there is a danger of snakebite, yeah, that's true - an astronomically small danger if you don't touch the snakes. I have seen ONE snake in the middle of a trail - early in the season, while it was still cool and the snake obviously was trying to warm up in the sun. A prod of the trekking pole tip got it to leave.

The "best practice" you can have is to go hiking, be careful, and keep learning. No more, no less. Fussing endlessly about bears when you are not in grizzly territory is not really going to lead to enjoying the hike. I have to tell the newbies in my group when we go to Yosemite that the bears are not going to hurt them, don't drop your pack and run, don't panic, don't give it your food, don't leave your pack unattended and go wading or taking pictures - because the only time bears learn to be aggressive is when they get your food, and the times they get people's food are generally when people are very careless, or when they are AFRAID of them. There was a bear in Kings Canyon that learned to charge at people because that resulted in dropped packs - the bear had to die, because people were SCARED, and the more people let the bear know it could scare them, the more aggressive the bear got. It's not fair to the bears to be terrified. Respect them, avoid coming into close proximity, look big and get loud and don't let them approach you. It's not about you - it's about them. You won't be the one hurt. And if you doubt me, check out the bear page on the Yosemite website sometime, or any other park website - the rules will be different in Alaska, or Rocky Mountain National Park, because the brown bears are not black bears. Black bears are less dangerous, statistically speaking, than DEER.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#119630 - 08/21/09 01:04 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: lori]
Barry II Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 25
Loc: NY
I think I'll go by the book. I didn't think that would be so controversial. The only thing I may do that I expected could make me seem paranoid is putting narrow Shields on my poles and painting them to look like people to make animals think I'm not alone. At the same time they could shield me from snakes.

By the way, I went camping twice when I was about 10 and 11 at sleep away camp, where I slept in a sleeping bag overnight in the woods, saw a snake, and got stung by a bee. As an adult, I went once to a busy campground and slept in a tent over the weekend. It wouldn't matter if I went 100 times. I'm cautious.

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#119634 - 08/21/09 07:11 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
Come on Barry, you didn't know it would be so controversial, you have been oozing controversy since the start, look at the title of your thread.
People have givin you their experience which no book can match, take what you need and leave the rest, unless you are just trying to entertain yourself which as long as people are willing to respond more power to you.
If you really are that paranoid, you might want to find a different hobby, panic is no fun in the backcountry.

BTW tinsle is actually recycled snake mirrors, snakes are scared of their reflection, at least thats what Steven Wright said.
_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#119635 - 08/21/09 09:22 AM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Precisely what I expected.

Have a great time doing whatever you're doing - I doubt it's backpacking. You either don't get it or that was never the point in the first place.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#119647 - 08/21/09 02:17 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: Barry II]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3139
Loc: Portland, OR
If you have books and will always prefer the book over what anyone here tells you, then obviously there is no reason for you to be here, or for anyone to try to tell you anything at all, other than:

Good luck. Happy hiking. Stay safe and try to enjoy yourself. Bye-bye, Barry II! smile

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#119649 - 08/21/09 02:40 PM Re: Packing light conspiracy theory [Re: bigb]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By bigb

People have givin you their experience which no book can match, take what you need and leave the rest,


All that's in books are people's experiences. Colin Fletcher? Experienced backpackers like Ray Jardine have a lot to say - they may be crackpots by many standards but there is a lot of useful information to learn from. Stephen Herrera? He'll tell you black bears evolved in a different environment than grizzlies and will react differently to you. Haven't seen anything in Barry's posts that indicates he knows any of those books exist. Even Bryson's Walk in the Woods can teach you how NOT to approach backpacking.

If he's joking about the shields painted to look like people, he's not reading any of the bear books (or any other animal safety material) out there, because there's comedy gold in the ones that suggest urinating around your campsite and he didn't even use it.

If he's serious about shields, he's definitely using the wrong books.

Either way, I'm done - he can go where he wants and do what he wants - judging from the pattern of what he responds to and how he responds, he's not really interested in using the forum in the way it was intended.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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