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#118666 - 07/23/09 04:53 PM Yet another, "gear advice" thread.
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Hey guys, I am just looking for some information regarding sleeping bags.

My wife and I live in Colorado and are three-season campers. We have been car-camping and day-hiking to rivers to fly-fish for many years, but just recently decided that we would love a new challenge; backpacking, but as fly-fishers, we need to carry more gear than most (waders, wading boots, rods, reels etc), most of this we have minimized already through experience and thus weight, along with functionality is an important part of our decision when purchasing equipment for both past-times.

However our current sleeping bags leave little to be desired, as far as weight and size are concerned, and thus we are in the market for new ones-- well, I am in the market for a new one, my wife already picked up a Marmot Angel Fire +15 bag which she is content with. I on the other-hand, am a little more picky.

Our budget is relatively tight ($200) and thus I was looking at the Kelty Light Year +20 bag because it was both lightweight and small when compressed. However being in Colorado and having often woken up to snow or ice on the ground and camping at various altitudes, I began thinking that not only a +20 bag might not be enough, but I am also worried about dampness/condensation/moisture with a down bag; what are your thoughts and experiences on this?

So I was toying with the idea of purchasing a zero degree bag, either TNF Snowshoe or the Kelty Light Year XP, mainly because these are the only two zero degree bags I can find available at REI that are within my budget. The problem of course is that both of these bags are much heavier (about 1 pound) and do not compress as well as the Kelty +20 bag.

Any advice on this choice?

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#118673 - 07/23/09 07:11 PM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: ChrisFol]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
Greetings & welcome,

I can't give direct advice about those sleeping bag choices, but I can share what I've learned from lightweight backpacking reguarding sleeping bags. A lot of lightweight hikers use a "sleep system" as opposed to just a bag: they use an insulative jacket, long underwear, warm hat, or other clothing along with a sleeping bag so that they can get away with a lighter bag. My impression is that 30-40 degree bags are pretty typical for lightweight hikers in the lower 48, with down being the prefered material.

Depending on the typical overnight lows, windchill, and wetness of your area, I think you'd be fine with the +20 degree bag vs the 0 degree one. I usually use a 32 degree bag, though for years I used a summer weight quilt that kept me warmish down to about freezing when I wore most of my clothes. I do most of my hiking in NW Washington and SE Alaska.

The choice of sleeping pad can also have an effect on warmth; inflatables allow air to transfer heat from the body to the ground more than foam pads. Some people carry an extra, really thin foam pad when it gets cold out. Some people also sleep on their empty backpacks, usually under their legs when they use a short sleeping pad.


Edited by Wolfeye (07/23/09 07:15 PM)

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#118684 - 07/24/09 01:57 AM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: Wolfeye]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

If you are able to fish, chances are you're not going to have the temperature dropping that cold at night that you won't do just fine in a 20 degree bag with some clothing on.

Oh, and if you are taking stocking foot waders, trailrunners or boots can do dual duty as wading shoes as long as you don't mind waiting for them to dry afterwards. However i've found most of the time unless it's a dedicated extended fishing trip that I am packing in a belly boat for, I don't mess with waders for small streams and the like. I just ensure I have warm long johns with dry socks and camp shoes and I wade and get wet during the day in small streams - and take fairly minimal fly gear. Wading in long nylon hiking pants is usually ok for small bits and they dry quick.



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#118695 - 07/24/09 03:37 PM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: phat]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
The advice provided so far is excellent.

20 degree bag is fine for three season Colorado if the temperature rating is accurate.

Down is great. Leave your bag on shore when using your waders.

I use a 30 degree bag for 3 season in Colorado, but I also wear a fleece hoodie as part of my sleep system.

One the rare occasions that I have gotten cold in the backcountry the problem was:

1. Did not eat well enough before bed.

2. Pad did not provide enough insulation.

You are most likely to get cold from the bottom.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
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#118699 - 07/24/09 04:54 PM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: ringtail]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
Whether a 20degree bag will keep you warm depends on many things:
How accurate is the rating (look for the new European ratings)
What other clothing are you wearing
What do you have underneath you for insulation
How tired, dehydrated, hungry you are
Whether you sleep warm of cold
How humid it is
How windy it is.

My go to bag for three season high mountain is a marmot 15 degree bag because I sleep cold. YMMV
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#118702 - 07/24/09 08:27 PM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: phat]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Originally Posted By phat

If you are able to fish, chances are you're not going to have the temperature dropping that cold at night that you won't do just fine in a 20 degree bag with some clothing on.


That fact was also at the back of my mind; however I was more concerned with the "what-ifs" as there have been many a time through-out the years that I have been extremely thankful for my current +10 bag and thus, I am somewhat skeptical about a 20 degree bag being "enough".

However, with that said, I believe that with a sufficient "sleep system" as Wolfeye describes, that a +20 bag should be enough for Colorado's three seasons (March through October).

Originally Posted By phat

Oh, and if you are taking stocking foot waders, trailrunners or boots can do dual duty as wading shoes as long as you don't mind waiting for them to dry afterwards.


I always leave the chest highs at home and just pack thigh-waders as they are much lighter and take up a lot less space. As for boots, I have Simms' Vibram soled Rivershed which can double as a hiking boot and then I just pack a light shoe/slipper for the campsite.

Thank you all for such great advice, it really is very much appreciated. I have narrowed it down to two, either the Snowshoe (0 degree) or the +20 Kelty. I am however learning more towards the latter due to your responses and because of its weight and size.

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#118704 - 07/24/09 09:22 PM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: thecook]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
Bang for your buck try looking on montbells website http://www.montbell.us/ for a bag several great choices for around $200 and very light I have a SS. Down Hugger 650 30deg and use it even below freezing temps, just add a down sweater and a silk bag liner. In the summer I use the liner alone

Good Luck
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"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#118828 - 07/28/09 12:56 PM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: bigb]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Well I was all set to purchase the Kelty Light Year +20 bag from REI this morning, however I have just discovered that the third bag that I was considering; the Kelty Light Year XP zero degree bag is now on sale at $120 bucks from REI. This is a saving of $60 over the +20 bag and $70 over the Snowshoe, the other bag on my list.

However, the XP weighs in at 1 lbs. 5oz heavier than the 20 degree bag and compresses considerably larger also. Compared to the Snowshoe, the difference is marginal: 3oz heavier and 1/2 an inch wider.

Is a 3lb. 11oz, 10x18 sleeping bag too much to backpack or do you believe that the additional weight and size is worth the considerable monetary savings? $60-70 bucks is like a having a "free" cookset & stove or a water filter and if I didn't already have one, it would be almost half towards a backpack.

What are your opinions?



Edited by ChrisFol (07/28/09 01:03 PM)

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#118830 - 07/28/09 01:45 PM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: ChrisFol]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
The heavier bag may great for spring/fall but what about summer?
When do you do most of your camping?

You can make the lighter bag warmer by adding layers. But do you really want a 0 degree bag in the summer? You'll be hauling a lot of extra weight and bulk just to be too hot at night.

IMO a 3lb 110z bag is too heavy for 3 season backpacking. And keep in mind that those numbers are the manufacturer's claim and the actual weight will likely be more.
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If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

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#119179 - 08/10/09 01:53 AM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: Trailrunner]
dash4689 Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 18
Loc: TX
I would highly encourage you to go with down. True, it is a problem if it gets wet, but in 30 years of backpacking in the Rockies, New Mexico to Montana, and have experienced day after day of heavy rain for much of each day. YetI have never gotten my bag seriously wet.

But then I am super careful with it. I pack it in a water resistant light-weight nylon bag, but only after I have inserted a large turkey-roasting bag (available at most supermarkets) It weighs less than an ounce, is highly puncture & water resistant. I also use a pack cover for additional help.

Even if my tent condenses heavily or even leaks, my bag is kept dry because I'm on a TermaRest 3/4 length mattress, with my backpack for my legs & feet. This keeps me above any water on the floor. I use a light weight pack towel or pack spongue to mop up any water ring it out in my vestibule. If I ever replace my bag, I will probably get one with a gortex top for added protection.

Although down is more expensive to buy, it packs smaller than any synthetic, and it also will last much longer than any synthetic bag. In the long haul, you will probably spend less keeping yourself in bags. I replaced my first down bag after 25 years and averaging 15 - 20 nights a year. I still keep it for a great bag for warmer trips, usually car camping. Down also has a wide comfort range. I have use it from + 20 to in a friends living room at 75, opened up and laying over my like a blanket.

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#119183 - 08/10/09 09:34 AM Re: Yet another, "gear advice" thread. [Re: dash4689]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Just got back from the high Sierra, where we had wind, snow and craziness in August (great summer weather, yes?). I took a Jacks R Better down quilt that weighs 20 oz. and packs to the size of a cantalope, and a Neo Air medium at 13 oz. Was very warm both in my hammock and on the ground. The quilt is accurately rated to 25F, I believe. I have repeatedly been warmer than warm in this to below freezing.

I would mention that it is very worth seeking a higher fill power of down as well, as the huuuuuuge down sleeping bags you will find on the rack at REI are mostly 650fp, and my 800fp quilt compresses better and is in some cases warmer. Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering, Montbell and Marmot have some higher quality bags that will last you decades with proper care.

You will find that sleeping bags are heavy and cheap, or light and expensive, but never warm and light and cheap. My quilt at about 250 (3 season, they have 4 season as well) was the best deal I found, and as I hammock it's really exactly what I needed. I have recommended the Ray Way quilts to people as they are also good quality but synthetic and come as a kit to make it yourself; for less than 100 you can have a very warm solution that while bulky is still less so than many sleeping bags. They also have two person quilt patterns.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

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