Ok, the topic is a bit of a troll, but in all seriousness this is about electrolytes and the fact that after so many years of doing this stuff, and with a lot of background in science I should really really know better - So I'll confess my own sillyness as a warning to the rest of you.

You may recall in another thread I stated smugly:



Ya know it's entirely true. I've never taken electorolyte supplements with me backapcking, I have lots of snacks that
provide it. Of course, it would be wise for me to listen to
myself sometimes and think it through...

I'm a little different lately. I've been on weight watchers since march. Lost a lot of weight, feeling good. However, I have never thought of it as a "low salt" diet. (I actually don't think of it as much of a diet even, it's just I eat different stuff and watch how much I do eat..)

Of course I'm really eating lots of veggies and stuff and almost no processed crap like I used to semi-frequently. Stupidly, I didn't think of this at all...

Now, rewind a week and a half, recall I posted my pics from my trip up to Limestone Lakes. It was hot on the way up. I felt bad. I was drinking lots. I made it in but felt beat, ate, had salty snacks, felt better once I was eating "backpacking food" (when I'm backpacking I'm totally "off the wagon") and had a great rest of the trip. I didn't think too much about it. Just assumed I was tired and had a bad first day.

I then had a hard week working outside. Felling trees as a volunteer in hot weather. then building a garage in 40C. Here I wasn't eating "backpacking food". but I was probably drinking 8 litres of water a day. Now I was eating some salt but it occurs to me probably not enough. I felt very out of sorts for quite a while. By monday I was sore but also felt worn out and beat with a stick. Finally I broke down and ate a whole bunch of *salty* stuff - chips, sasuage, olives, etc. all of a sudden the floodgates broke, I slept right, and felt
100% better.

So, while I've had no formal diagnosis, so part of this may be my own speculation, let it serve as word of warning to those of you who change your eating habits. I've never had major issues in the heat as long as I eat and pound the water back. Now all of a sudden I do - and of course (duh!) it's because of *what* I am eating is different. while not consiously attempting to have a "low salt" diet - practically I am eating a lot less of it. This seems to have made a big
difference in how I react to the heat and drinking lots of water in it.

I'll be looking to make sure I'm eating the right stuff and/or using an electrolyte supplement from now on when I'm
doing heavy work in hot weather....

Mea Culpa..

Congrats on the weight loss Phat! I know that everybody is different. THEY warn against fat and salt, yet my grandfather ate a little biscuit with his butter and food with his salt his whole life and had LOW blood pressure. Sound like you just learned you may be more like my grandfather than the 'average' population.

A big part of the issue was HOW much water you drank. You stripped your body of not only sodium but potassium. A drink would have helped as well - in other words, for every liter or two of water, the third should have electrolytes in it.

Something to consider - when you hike do you nibble often? How about when you were working? Probably not as much as when hiking. You gotta eat while drinking that much water. Otherwise all you do is sweat or pee out everything.

As for the salt - you still need moderation - fill in the corners with food high in potassium - orange juice, tater chips, bananas, etc.

I use Morton's Lite Salt most of the time (on my food); I live in a fairly hot climate and need to maintain a good electrolyte balance.

Lite Salt is about half sodium chloride and half potassium chloride. It gives you a good balance of the two most easily lost cations. The taste is a bit different from common table salt but one gets used to the difference quickly.

Probably it would help to take a light-dose magnesium supplement also if you are doing day-after-day of sweating and drinking.

Salty food makes my ankles and hands swell (Sarbar, I think we're alike in that). I've found that a balanced electrolyte solution (I use Gookinaid) in my drinking water works far better than salty food to keep me from getting fatigued.

Just salt doesn't do the job; you need a balance of sodium, potassium, magnesium and glucose. Not too much of the latter, and at all costs avoid supplements with high fructose corn syrup!

Calcium is also important. Powdered milk is actually an excellent trail drink because it has alot of the electrolytes, plus protein and sugars. I find I run low on all of my nutrients so I try to supplement often. I get alot of neuro symptoms if I get too low but they go away when I supplement my 'lytes.

MNS

At my age, the doc has me on three 500 mg. calcium pills (plus Vitamin D) per day plus what I get in my diet. Not being a fan of powdered milk, I don't get as much when I'm backpacking, which makes the calcium pills even more important. On the other hand, vitamin D, vitally important at home (especially during our mostly sunless PNW winters) is not so much of an issue when out backpacking! Well, maybe it is when I'm all bundled up against the mosquitoes that wandering_daisy says are waiting for me in the Wind Rivers!

Thanks for the post phat.

I bombed myself out last week working in the heat and you described how I felt perfectly. I hardly ever eat salt and I'm sure that's what caused my problem too, though I hadn't thought of it until reading what you had to say.

I have a big bag of Mrs. Fishers Potato Chips in the house I think I'll go snack on now. They're the best chips in the entire world, very salty, and they go perfect with my killer dill pickles and a good India Pale Ale.

Bill

Everyone is quite different with respect to need for salts and electrolytes. I think you have to trial and error until you get it right. It is all about balance, so, of course, when you change your diet, that will make a difference. I believe that high blood pressure as a result of salt intake is genetic - some people have a problem with this, others less so. When I used to work outdoors in 100+ weather, I found that a drink like Gatoraid did make me feel better. I seldom backpack in such heat, so find water is just fine. The only supplements I take are a multi-vitamin and a calcium-magnesium pill (more for bone health than for electrolytes). I also do not drink a lot of water and do not sweat a lot. Everyone tells me to drink more - but I feel great and have lots of energy. I think if you just "listen" to your body, you will get it figured out.

I am glad that you feel your "diet" does not feel like a diet. That is great. It means you probably will be succesful. Good luck.

I completely agree with that. I tell my family and friends that "If it taste good and makes you feel good then it is probably good for you."

That sounds simple, and it is, but most people don't ever think about the second half of that rule.

The Mrs. Fisher's chips I linked to are a great example of this. They taste great (best chips ever) but you don't feel very good if you eat too many of them.

On the other hand, boiled and mashed potatoes taste great and make me feel great too. Sometimes even a bit euphoric, like a drug would. I figure that's my body telling me I needed whatever is in them.

Bill

That would either be the potassium (potatoes are a great source), or the carbs, but probably the potassium.

MNS

Hmm. I didn't know that. Bananas are supposed to be rich in potassium too but I don't get the same effect from them.

Maybe the potassium in the `taters is more assimilable for me.

Thanks for the info. I'll pay more attention to potassium rich foods and try to get some other sources.

Bill

I've had similar experiences.

At the end of 10 hour hard-labor days while remodeling my house and redoing my foundation I would feel terrible and have a head ache. Then I started drinking Gatorade. Everything changed and I felt much better.

The day before a week long backback trip I was reviewing my food and realized I had almost no salt in any of the food. My peanuts, for example, were saltless. I quickly made some changes.

V8 Juice for me . . .

One GC Rim-to-Rim trip I came upon two of my northbound group between the Redwall Bridge and Supai Tunnel who were out of water and in trouble. (I always go last with a group, so I'm heading towards trouble). Anyway, I gave them the rest of my water and hustled up the S. Kaibab trail to the water spigot at Supai Tunnel, got water for them and drank some myself and hustled back down to them. Then I walked back with them up to Supai where I left them to rest while I scurried up to the trailhead (2 mi and 1000') and dumped my pack so I could go back down to carry the pack of the one who was hurting most. I had been drinking OK, but I was still wiped. I stopped at the camp store and thought some V8 looked good. Wow! It was like spinach for Popeye! I felt totally renewed!
After the trip, I took a good look at the label and saw that it has amounts of potassium and sodium that are probably more than needed on an average day, but it sure was great for me in those circumstances. I have since used it to great benefit -- even though I now use an electrolyte replacement in my water (Gookinaid) during times when dehydration is possible.

This is in great contrast to a previous time when my son & I were hiking out the Bright Angel trail and hustling so I could catch the shuttle back to N.Rim. I was feeling so thirsty near the top and thought I'd like a Coke at the snack bar at the top of the trail . . .

WRONG!! It was good for about 15 minutes and then I felt like I was going to puke during most of the 5 hr. ride back to N. Rim. Fortunately I was spared that humiliation, but I no longer drink sodas after exercise like that.

This is getting off topic, but to finish the story, I got to N. Rim about 6pm, took a shower and then drove our rental van back to the family on S.Rim -- getting to the campsite about 1:30am after having been up early for the climb out of the canyon. I also won't do that again, either.

I'll second that. I've been revived by that concoction many times. It's great stuff.

(must be that potassium

Bill

North or South Kaibab trail?